US Coaches restricted by SafeSport

Why did USFSA -before the investigation was closed- publicize the suspension? Was this "deadly transparency" really necessary? It should have been possible to announce that only internally.

luckyguy said:

Why did USFSA -before the investigation was closed- publicize the suspension? Was this "deadly transparency" really necessary? It should have been possible to announce that only internally.

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No, it has to be announced and publicized. We know what a culture of silence leads to. Only look at Pennsylvania football or USA Gymnastics. John should be not allowed to continue working with children, (even though that's what he did) when there is substantial corroborating evidence that he committed sexual misconduct. Furthermore, parents have a right to know if their children's' teachers are under investigation.

brightphoton said:

No, it has to be announced and publicized. We know what a culture of silence leads to. Only look at Pennsylvania football or USA Gymnastics. John should be not allowed to continue working with children, (even though that's what he did) when there is substantial corroborating evidence that he committed sexual misconduct. Furthermore, parents have a right to know if their children's' teachers are under investigation.

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Thank you. Someone very close to me was abused by Nassar in the time period between when it was first reported to USAG and when it was actually publicized/common knowledge. It was kept so close to the vest in that case that he was still allowed to work with young girls, and in the process victimized countless others. SafeSport was founded to prevent anything like that from happening again.

I have seen it from both sides - a family friend of mine was investigated, his name published, and then ultimately cleared of wrongdoing. But I don’t blame them one bit for publicizing the investigation, as it serves two purposes: 1) protecting any potential future victims and/or revictimization of the complainant and 2) sending a message that this kind of thing is taken seriously now and won’t just be swept under the rug like in year’s past.

I’m so sorry to hear about John’s passing, but there is some level of corroborating evidence for SafeSport and now USFS to suspend him. They had to have multiple pieces of evidence to publicize it this way, they are funded by USOC and aren’t in the business of scapegoating. Further due process would have come in time, and his name could have been exonerated if that was the case. But now I don’t know if we’ll ever know.

Gracie‘s post is somewhat disgusting. She states that everyone has „their own truth“, meaning that the picture she has might be incomplete - because those parts could be missing which are the truth of potential victims. At this point in time it would have been best to refrain from such statements. She is basically saying that even if there is a different truth and the allegations prove to be true, she rather concentrates on all the positive stuff and how he was such a good friend to her.
People need to understand that even your close friends, no matter how friendly and charismatic, might be capable of committing crimes. We have this wrong idea of predators being isolated people with no friends and a horrible personality.

I think STEPHEN COLBERT say it best:

"I don't know what's going to happen, but I do believe in accountability. And not just for politicians you disagree with," Colbert said on “The Late Show” Monday. "Everybody believes in accountability until it's their guy, and, make no mistake, xx xxx is my guy."

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We all want to support victims, but we wouldn´t want to believe our brother, father, friend (or sister, mother...) did something horrible... so I don´t fault skaters speaking in honor of John, I would be surprise if their friendship was so superficial that they could believe and turn against him so easily, believe that he was capable of something bad...and I think Gracie received lots of support from John in the last couple of years, so, is only human nature to try to defend those that are dear to your heart.

About phrasing and comments, emotions are running high and probably all people are hurting so I´m giving them a pass... in the future they may correct what they wrote... but right now they are only human

It took TWENTY YEARS for Callaghan to be suspended!!!!!!!!!

Icey said:

It took TWENTY YEARS for Callaghan to be suspended!!!!!!!!!

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Hm. All we know now, having listened to the TSL interview, was that someone was interviewed in October 2018. So as far as we know, it took no less than three months. We do not know when the first alleged victim came forward.

Icey said:

No group like SafeSport would take the action they have without substantial evidence. Thank you , Metis, for the TSL video.

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I don't know what the evidence was against John, but they suspended Alex Naddour (men's gymnast) in June 2018 and he was cleared and reinstated in November 2018.

beachmouse said:

There's a lot of case law in the USA about how an organization cannot interfere with a person's right to earn a living. Common for companies to say they have a policy of only verifying dates of employment for a former employee and they will not discuss anything about the person's character or work value. (There have been many lawsuits over negative references that led to those kinds of policies)

We do not know what led to the SafeSport sanctions but they would not have been placed lightly or without care on the organization's part because even SafeSport can be sued for overreach in US courts

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Too bad Alex Naddour did not sue them. And WOW, I just went to look at some of the people restricted by SafeSport and there are a LOT of them. Ryan Lochte's father (retired swim coach) among them.

There is a Go Fund Me page started by Delilah To help the family with Legal/Funeral expenses.

moonvine said:

I don't know what the evidence was against John, but they suspended Alex Naddour (men's gymnast) in June 2018 and he was cleared and reinstated in November 2018.

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An interesting information how SafeSport works:

“On June 20, 2018, USA Gymnastics suspended the membership of Alexander Naddour.”

Naddour's father and coach Mike Naddour said, "No one has contacted us to tell us what the allegations are. We don't know anything.

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https://eu.azcentral.com/story/spor...s-queen-creek-gymnast-alex-naddour/720114002/

el henry said:

I feel I need to jump in, although I know next to nothing about Safe Sport, to correct a misimpression:

SafeSport does NOT *replace* law enforcement. If a crime (contact under the age of consent, forcible contact) occurs, it should be reported to law enforcement. If it is communicated to an organization like Safe Sport, they are mandatory reporters (ETA: in my state) who should report knowledge of a crime to law enforcement.

SafeSport provides, I would imagine, further protections above and beyond law enforcement. Contact with persons of the age of consent. Non forcible contact. Bullying that is not physical abuse. Behaviors that the organization prohibits, but that the law does not consider a crime.

I am making this surmise based on my own work with similar in-house procedures, knowing nothing about SafeSport procedures other than the website,

Further, “secrecy” is not for the organization’s benefit, but for the *complainant’s* benefit. To encourage open and honest communication from persons with complaints. Who are free to go to the press, the public, or wherever they want if they do not want such privacy. At least in my organization.

So very sad all around:sad21:

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Nope. Nothing in their policies seems to acknowledge the legal obligation to report. The Deadspin article that has been linked discusses their policies as explained (vaguely) in public statements and notes that their website and materials (screenshots and photos, too) don't set forth clear policies for responses or investigations and that seems to include reporting.

iceskater10 said:

There is a Go Fund Me page started by Delilah To help the family with Legal/Funeral expenses.

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That is so unbelievably uncomfortable

moonvine said:

Too bad Alex Naddour did not sue them. And WOW, I just went to look at some of the people restricted by SafeSport and there are a LOT of them. Ryan Lochte's father (retired swim coach) among them.

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An explanation of why Steve Lochte was forced out of his coaching job at Daytona State College in 2010-11

https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.c...-as-head-swim-coach-at-daytona-state-college/

I'd assume the SafeSport ban was for what happened there.

As for Nastia Liukin, I'd assume she was protected somewhat from the abuse because her father was prominent enough in USA Gymnastics that Nassar didn't want to risk drawing his direct ire.

bytheriver said:

Thank you. Someone very close to me was abused by Nassar in the time period between when it was first reported to USAG and when it was actually publicized/common knowledge. It was kept so close to the vest in that case that he was still allowed to work with young girls, and in the process victimized countless others. SafeSport was founded to prevent anything like that from happening again.

I have seen it from both sides - a family friend of mine was investigated, his name published, and then ultimately cleared of wrongdoing. But I don’t blame them one bit for publicizing the investigation, as it serves two purposes: 1) protecting any potential future victims and/or revictimization of the complainant and 2) sending a message that this kind of thing is taken seriously now and won’t just be swept under the rug like in year’s past.

I’m so sorry to hear about John’s passing, but there is some level of corroborating evidence for SafeSport and now USFS to suspend him. They had to have multiple pieces of evidence to publicize it this way, they are funded by USOC and aren’t in the business of scapegoating. Further due process would have come in time, and his name could have been exonerated if that was the case. But now I don’t know if we’ll ever know.

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Again, see the Deadspin piece that is less than a year old. SafeSport was, at that time, not even employing qualified investigators and it's lawyer wasn't actually a lawyer. We don't know that they had corroborating evidence.

As for the need to publicize it to get him away from children...well, if the allegations involved children, he should have been turned over to law enforcement immediately. When a teacher at a school I was working at sexually abused a 14 year old student, he was literally arrested the day it was reported. Strong corroborating evidence of child sexual abuse should have been turned over to law enforcement and he would have been arrested. That didn't happen. So either it was not sexual abuse or SafeSport has bigger questions to answer.

theharleyquinn said:

That is so unbelievably uncomfortable

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Why? Do you believe that his family doesn't deserve the dignity of giving him a proper burial?

At this stage, there is no need for a rush to defend, nor a rush to condemn.

I'll wait for the facts, and I'll be patient. Because they need to get this right and report the truth, no matter what it is.

Either Mr Coughlin's past caught up with him and he couldn't face it, or he was the victim of false allegations and killed himself in despair.

I'd wager that none of us knows which is the case.

What frightens me is all the individuals (not here) claiming the me too movement went too far and was responsible for what happened. This is not true. The me too movement is about restoring agency to women who were too afraid to tell their stories. The fact that on our culture we take claims of abuse and misconduct more seriously is necessary. We take claims much more seriously because in the past they were not taken seriously at all and led to devastating consequences.

The last thing we should do is make people think that because they come forward with an accusation it’s their fault when something like this happens. It is not their fault. It is tragic, but no one “has blood on their hands”.

The other thing people need to remember when discussing this case is there is a good chance the accusers are minors. We should have more care in how we speak.

Lastly, I don’t think Gracie meant to be hurtful in her post. I didn’t see her comment about her truth being insensitive. I think she was saying that the friend she knew was kind to her and that’s all she personally knows.

Thank you for that!

louisa05 said:

Again, see the Deadspin piece that is less than a year old. SafeSport was, at that time, not even employing qualified investigators and it's lawyer wasn't actually a lawyer. We don't know that they had corroborating evidence.

As for the need to publicize it to get him away from children...well, if the allegations involved children, he should have been turned over to law enforcement immediately. When a teacher at a school I was working at sexually abused a 14 year old student, he was literally arrested the day it was reported. Strong corroborating evidence of child sexual abuse should have been turned over to law enforcement and he would have been arrested. That didn't happen. So either it was not sexual abuse or SafeSport has bigger questions to answer.

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Nassar was reported to the police on several occasions over a period of decades. I listened to a podcast about this and the police talk about the reasons things went wrong. THEY didn't have qualified people investigating the situation because they didn't have the resources or knowledge to know what they needed. They assumed his "medical" procedures were legitimate because they interviewed some of his colleagues about them, despite the fact that these experts were heavily connected to and influenced by Nassar. The police department in the podcast also discusses how they didn't have policies set in place to review previous complaints so that they were unaware of complaints that had existed previously because they'd been dismissed for lack of evidence. I don't know much about Safe Sport but I assume it exists in part to serves to to review multiple complaints in a centralized fashion that police departments would not be able to do.

The problem with "lack of transparency" is that you also have to protect underage victims' identities. We also have no idea if the police were involved or not. And just because someone does not have the evidence necessary to be arrested does not mean they should continue working with children after complaints have been raised. Again, I don't know much about Safe Sport but I have to imagine that they are reporting to Child Protective Services (CPS or DCFS) even if they aren't directly reporting to police. The job of CPS is to then determine whether they investigate through their department, refer the investigation to police, or both. I've had to make multiple calls to CPS because of the nature of my job (which makes me a mandated reported). So this idea that Safe Sport was investigating without any other legal entities involved to me seems ridiculous. I assume that their role would make them mandatory reporters, which would mean that they reporting to at least CPS if they suspected ANY type of abuse of children was occurring.

I watched a bit of the TSL interview and was planning to finish it today but its down now. Which is a shame because I found it insightful. The most notable piece of information was that Safe Sport raised the level of the investigation very shortly before his death. They suggests that new damning information had come to light. Its not necessarily the ban that precipitated his actions but the revelations that they uncovered, which could potentially have also involved police. I understand and respect people's grieving process and don't fault them for making statements of support at this time. But to me the evidence seems to suggest something serious was occurring that was about to come to light.