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Thread: Dmitri Aliev’s Quad Lutz

  1. #21
    Bona Fide Member Ares's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crossover View Post
    Indeed, but that heavy pre and under-rotation occurs not only on his 4Lutz, but other jumps especially his 3A. Aliev who possess great skating skills and music interpretation is a beautiful skater to watch but his jumps have been awarded with absurdly high scores for those have made me never fall into his skating wholeheartedly. Maybe that's my poor excuse, because I adore Miyahara's skating and artistry regardless of her tiny jumps with a lot of baggage just like Aliev although I have a hard time in finding female skaters with great programs these days as much as her or men's field is more focused on jumps.
    I love watching him too. He has a glorious posture, good skating skills and musicality indeed. I dislike his jumps though, especially axel & lutz.
    It annoys me when some skaters receive nearly the same amount of points (or even more) for the inferior jump. When the difference is visible on the naked eye, it tends to be twice much more cruel upon the closer look (slo-mo). And it is not like Aliev does some super hard entry towards his quad lutz that would warrant some special bullets.

  2. #22
    GS Supporter Tutto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malya View Post
    Let's add my controversial opinion: Everybody prerotates every jump. Yes, Hanyu and Fernandez both do.

    Even Boyang!! Textbook Kolyada! Eteri girls! Mishin girls!

    It's when you clearly prerotate even over 180° that it gets fishy, and I can understand people looking more closely when it's about the highest scoring elements (4Lz, 4F) that should have a max of 90% pr with textbook toejump technique (Kolyada, Boyang)
    I am surprised you even put Eteri girls in the same line with others
    All Eteri's girls prerote just as much as they may possibly hope to get away with - far from a textbook technique, unless I misunderstand your post altogether

  3. #23
    Medalist DSQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tutto View Post
    I am surprised you even put Eteri girls in the same line with others
    All Eteri's girls prerote just as much as they may possibly hope to get away with - far from a textbook technique, unless I misunderstand your post altogether
    I think they are saying that all jumping techniques have some amount of pre rotation. Which is true all jumps allow for 90 degrees of pre rotation, and some like the loop allow 180 degrees, but all jumps allow it. But saying that is being highly technical.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSQ View Post
    I think they are saying that all jumping techniques have some amount of pre rotation. Which is true all jumps allow for 90 degrees of pre rotation, and some like the loop allow 180 degrees, but all jumps allow it. But saying that is being highly technical.
    Exactly, that was my point

    And 'all Eteri girls PR as much as they are allowed to' is not right either, everybody is different, thats why I mentionned them in a collective because everybody does PR! It should be obvious if you ever watched Polina Tsurskaya. Did she prerotate as much as she might get away with?

    I also mentionned the Mishin girls, and not only Liza: Samodurova and Tuktamysheva jump very different, but both do prerotate.

  5. #25
    Bona Fide Member narcissa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malya View Post
    Everybody prerotates every jump. Yes, Hanyu and Fernandez both do.
    https://66.media.tumblr.com/4e6c72c3...slyotu_540.gif

  6. #26
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    Did you misquote my answer on purpose? Do you disagree or agree? I dont get it. W/e, your gif actually solidifies my point perfectly:

    1+2 are both prerotated: 1 with ~90° pr, 2 with almost half - but they are clearly no full blade jumps.

    3 (sorry Shoma, but you are who I was talking about!) is 180+ and full blade assist. This is where I said I think it's really starting to be problematic - is this actually a toe jump?

    You have to at least recognize the correct jump (!!) or it needs to be penalized somehow. The system can do it with edges, but what if your toe jump resembles a loop?

    Rant: In an ideal world toe jumpers with deep edge and a big plop like Liza should get rewarded with GOE over your tech no 2, but her 3Lz scores compared to others prove we are not living in one

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