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Thread: 2019 Worlds: Ice Dance Pregame Chat

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by yuna13 View Post
    Yes it's natural to say that but i'm tired of people targetting P/C.
    I don't think pushing yourself and aiming to win (and obviously to beat P/C, you'd need to win) is "targeting" P/C? Why shouldn't these other teams aim to beat them? This is a competitive sport, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSQ View Post

    It does make me wonder if Zagorskii & Guerrerio will be given a second chance and be sent to Worlds anyway since Evdokimova & Bazin’s SB only puts them 15th.
    Russia have only 2 spots at Worlds. So just S/B and S/K, barring injuries.

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    Ah I forgot about that. Well that really sucks for Z/G. At least next year it’s likely that Russia will have three again.

    But my hope of a Spanish top ten place is fading after such a stellar 4CC but who knows what will happen at worlds? We certainly didn’t know H/D would be off the podium.

    While I personally really really would love for Fear & Gibson to somehow sneak in it’s just so heartbreaking to see such a talented team like Smart & Diaz be locked out of worlds when it’s so close! At least with the American teams the three teams above them are above them by a fair amount of points. In F&G’s case even a top 12 placement would be a great achievement and they could perhaps aim to be top 10 next year to gain that spot for Tweedale & Buckland.

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    The Spanish situation seems to be the most vexing. Why hasn’t S/D been outscoring the other team? Real difference in quality or politics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bcash View Post
    The Spanish situation seems to be the most vexing. Why hasn’t S/D been outscoring the other team? Real difference in quality or politics?
    I think it has quite a bit to do with quality of skating and programs. S/D have had some pretty bad free dances and they seem unfocused. I think they could overcome that, but I think they may be a team that has been lost in the Gadbois shuffle.

  6. #46
    Tripping on the Podium Roast Toast's Avatar
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    I wish they would get two spots so we'd finally be rid of this dumb drama. Can you imagine if we have to witness the same catfight play out again and again for the next four years? Good grief.

    I agree that the H/D lift issue was a freak accident and should be easily fixed. The repeat of the level 2 dance spin from GPF is honestly more concerning. For all his big talk I'm willing to bet Zach is very ready to put this season behind him, they have been coming across as shaken in interviews. They've had to change the free sooo much and it's still not hitting right, must be a confidence nightmare in training. I still think they'll get the silver this year but a single bad program may very well have robbed them of their spots as anointed P/C rivals in the judges' eyes.

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    my favourite 3 FD are GP, Weapo's and the Disco brits. I hope they get rewarded.

    I think 4CC may help boost GP the most among the top 4 who competed there. They placed 2nd in the FD and their final FD score had a lift deduction. It may trigger some thinking in the judges mind that indeed Starry starry night deserves the big points... not only it's a beautiful piece of choreography but it's original and skated so smoothly.

    Of course, the RD will be a big factor.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by oly2018 View Post
    I think it has quite a bit to do with quality of skating and programs. S/D have had some pretty bad free dances and they seem unfocused. I think they could overcome that, but I think they may be a team that has been lost in the Gadbois shuffle.
    Isn’t it also that H/K have a bigger base value than S/D? The two teams are virtually identical skill wise but H/K’s FD is just amazing (and RD is okay) in comparison to S/D’s good RD but pretty flat FD. They’ve changed their Beatles FD a fair amount this season but it, imo, just isn’t clicking.

    If I’ve learned anything this season from the third Russian team Evdokimova & Bazin your RD can be diabolical so long as your FD is okay you won’t fall too far in the rankings.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSQ View Post
    It does make me wonder if Zagorskii & Guerrerio will be given a second chance and be sent to Worlds anyway since Evdokimova & Bazin’s SB only puts them 15th.
    Russia has only 2 spots for Worlds. So only S/B & S/K. But I hope that they will be able to get the third spot for next year.
    In my opinion it's the most important target for them.
    As for the podium for 2 our duos, well, who knows, but I don't think that it'll happen this time.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by litenkyckling View Post
    I don't think pushing yourself and aiming to win (and obviously to beat P/C, you'd need to win) is "targeting" P/C? Why shouldn't these other teams aim to beat them? This is a competitive sport, right?
    This whole 'targeting P/C' phrase is kind of odd for me. I do think that the sense of this whole rhetoric is more about challenging judges' reputation vested in them, the sense of absolute monopole ruled by judges by their scores, not them as people or even performers as for aesthetic perspective. Of course, Zachary's delivery and attitude is up to opinion and my take is that the delivery makes the message seen in critical light (also by me), especially putting in perspective their interviews at the beginning of the season when they admitted being uninspired for FD choice; there's too much stress/push in his words about challenging status quo of others, not enough emphasise put on their own position, development (especially one of their material this season). Also, I think that this is the team that could get a bit false sense of superiority over the pack during 1st part of the season by how they were scored (especially in PCS) and now after 4CC situation it becomes more apparent that other teams are right there - to be honest, this kind of judges' attitude that influence team(s) in such way makes me sad. So I think that the aim is correct (and understood from competitive point of view as you said), the context and delivery make the misunderstanding. OTOH, when you are supporter of one particular team things could be viewed differently...

    Also, to derive another thought posted earlier about H/D 'recipe' to get on the top - I personally find it a bit dismissive (to put it rather mildly) to do shortcut and tell that H/D used/use V/M 'tactic' to challenge the top spot. Yes, seeing H/D's FD this season for the first time, the dynamics, it resembles 'Moulin Rouge' FD (with 'death ending' reference), BUT I think it is important to differentiate from where both programs took origin and thought behind it AND the mind-set expressed by both teams. V/M FD was a huge risk, especially in its first form and in musical choice area, but they were set on that from the very beginning and showed effort to make it work the best FOR THEM, to make a set of programs that truly represent them; adding the way they were both performed at Olympics, that they were able to peak with them at that specific time makes it for me a different case that H/D with R&J this season. First thing - about musical choice, character choice, they admitted about not having a specific idea for FD this season and going for R&J makes it a safe(r) choice rather than challenging themselves with music, style or concept; we know that they can do such aesthetic, especially taking into consideration their much improved glide, edge quality/skating skills in general, yet the effect disappoints. Moreover - I much preferred the original version with Radiohead part in it, now it looks more cliché and forced on expression. Good for them to have faith in their material, but when at the beginning of the season it could have been seen as maybe 'better' than others (mainly because of execution), now after 4CC it felt flat seeing it after 3 teams in final group. I get their desire to challenge the top, but I'd rather see it done by challenging themselves, not declaring to have a 'recipe' for winning, but proving the capability of doing it (which they recently failed to do).

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoNameFace View Post

    V/M FD was a huge risk, especially in its first form and in musical choice area, but they were set on that from the very beginning and showed effort to make it work the best FOR THEM, to make a set of programs that truly represent them; adding the way they were both performed at Olympics, that they were able to peak with them at that specific time makes it for me a different case that H/D with R&J this season.
    on this point, I kind of get the impression that Gadbois is a really good choice for teams who really want to create something themselves, but need to support provided there to really bring it to life. For example, I know that it was Lilah and Lewis who suggested doing disco, not the coaches. And I doubt that Gabi and Guillaume would enter a new season without any ideas themselves. I don't know about the creation of Madi and Evan's FD but they seem incredibly passionate about it. I think that the R&J FD doesn't feel very sincere or like it was a programme that they were desperate to do - and I think that thats why it just doesn't work for me.

    But anyway, H/D aside... only 27 more tangos to go!!!

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by litenkyckling View Post
    on this point, I kind of get the impression that Gadbois is a really good choice for teams who really want to create something themselves, but need to support provided there to really bring it to life. For example, I know that it was Lilah and Lewis who suggested doing disco, not the coaches. And I doubt that Gabi and Guillaume would enter a new season without any ideas themselves. I don't know about the creation of Madi and Evan's FD but they seem incredibly passionate about it. I think that the R&J FD doesn't feel very sincere or like it was a programme that they were desperate to do - and I think that thats why it just doesn't work for me.

    But anyway, H/D aside... only 27 more tangos to go!!!
    I pray there will be a lot of diverse choices next year for RD...

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoNameFace View Post
    I pray there will be a lot of diverse choices next year for RD...
    Isn't it Musical? I hope someone chooses High School Musical OST.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoNameFace View Post
    This whole 'targeting P/C' phrase is kind of odd for me. I do think that the sense of this whole rhetoric is more about challenging judges' reputation vested in them, the sense of absolute monopole ruled by judges by their scores, not them as people or even performers as for aesthetic perspective. Of course, Zachary's delivery and attitude is up to opinion and my take is that the delivery makes the message seen in critical light (also by me), especially putting in perspective their interviews at the beginning of the season when they admitted being uninspired for FD choice; there's too much stress/push in his words about challenging status quo of others, not enough emphasise put on their own position, development (especially one of their material this season). Also, I think that this is the team that could get a bit false sense of superiority over the pack during 1st part of the season by how they were scored (especially in PCS) and now after 4CC situation it becomes more apparent that other teams are right there - to be honest, this kind of judges' attitude that influence team(s) in such way makes me sad. So I think that the aim is correct (and understood from competitive point of view as you said), the context and delivery make the misunderstanding. OTOH, when you are supporter of one particular team things could be viewed differently...

    Also, to derive another thought posted earlier about H/D 'recipe' to get on the top - I personally find it a bit dismissive (to put it rather mildly) to do shortcut and tell that H/D used/use V/M 'tactic' to challenge the top spot. Yes, seeing H/D's FD this season for the first time, the dynamics, it resembles 'Moulin Rouge' FD (with 'death ending' reference), BUT I think it is important to differentiate from where both programs took origin and thought behind it AND the mind-set expressed by both teams. V/M FD was a huge risk, especially in its first form and in musical choice area, but they were set on that from the very beginning and showed effort to make it work the best FOR THEM, to make a set of programs that truly represent them; adding the way they were both performed at Olympics, that they were able to peak with them at that specific time makes it for me a different case that H/D with R&J this season. First thing - about musical choice, character choice, they admitted about not having a specific idea for FD this season and going for R&J makes it a safe(r) choice rather than challenging themselves with music, style or concept; we know that they can do such aesthetic, especially taking into consideration their much improved glide, edge quality/skating skills in general, yet the effect disappoints. Moreover - I much preferred the original version with Radiohead part in it, now it looks more cliché and forced on expression. Good for them to have faith in their material, but when at the beginning of the season it could have been seen as maybe 'better' than others (mainly because of execution), now after 4CC it felt flat seeing it after 3 teams in final group. I get their desire to challenge the top, but I'd rather see it done by challenging themselves, not declaring to have a 'recipe' for winning, but proving the capability of doing it (which they recently failed to do).
    Yes! NNF, I think I would really enjoy sitting with you at an ice dance comp.!

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by chopinskate View Post
    Isn't it Musical? I hope someone chooses High School Musical OST.
    Yes, musical/operetta/Broadway to choose from

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoNameFace View Post
    I pray there will be a lot of diverse choices next year for RD...
    I have a feeling we won’t be so lucky, we certainly weren’t this season at least lol I mean I love Libertango, I really do but a girl has her limits...

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrufflet View Post
    Yes! NNF, I think I would really enjoy sitting with you at an ice dance comp.!
    You think so? Well, that’s a nice praise in my book, thanks! I don't know though, if my English will be as interesting in speaking as it seems for some in writing

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSQ View Post
    I have a feeling we won’t be so lucky, we certainly weren’t this season at least lol I mean I love Libertango, I really do but a girl has her limits...
    next year maria will stay in buenos aires at least

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by elektra blue View Post
    next year maria will stay in buenos aires at least
    Don't speak too soon. I wouldn't put it past a team to splice it in there somehow...

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSQ View Post
    Isn’t it also that H/K have a bigger base value than S/D? The two teams are virtually identical skill wise but H/K’s FD is just amazing (and RD is okay) in comparison to S/D’s good RD but pretty flat FD. They’ve changed their Beatles FD a fair amount this season but it, imo, just isn’t clicking.

    If I’ve learned anything this season from the third Russian team Evdokimova & Bazin your RD can be diabolical so long as your FD is okay you won’t fall too far in the rankings.
    They've been better at hitting the levels, but dance isn't like singles. All the top teams are planning programs with identical BV, and then it comes down to execution.

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