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Thread: 2019 4CCs: FD

  1. #61
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by YagsFan View Post
    Wow, maybe I'm not understanding where many of you discussing the style of MFD/PL training camp ice dancers are meaning, but my initial reaction is wanting to ask how old you all are (not really, don't answer that!). But, do you not remember "back in the day", like the 80's/90's, when ice dance free programs were like watching theater productions?? I'm thinking Kryolva, Pesarat (sorry for spellings), Ponamerinko----really all of the top names from that era. Their programs were always telling detailed stories, complete with lots of over-the-top theatrics, costumes and make-up.
    Like I said, maybe I'm missing your points, but really??
    I definitely think ID now has a lot more substance in terms of skating than that era. Although that era may have more flashes of brilliance (like those lifts from A/P). And yeah Krylova the definition of hamming it up.

  2. #62
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    Ok, with a little help from the internet, I can be more precise in my reaction to this thread. Some of the prime examples of what I'm talking about are these skaters, from about 1984-2000: Klimova/Ponomarenko, Usova/Zhulin, Grishuk/Platov(without doubt THE example!), Krylova/Ovsyanevolpv. Anissina/Peizerat, Rahkamo/Kokko, Drobazho/Vanagas. All very theatrical, wildly-costumed; I remember commentators openly joking about audience members in the very top row being able to see Krylova's eye makeup and over-the top expressions. But, as these teams were the ones winning competitions, that is what the sport valued at that time. I really see no one today going to those lengths.

  3. #63
    On the Ice Mathman's Avatar
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    ^ I think the biggest determinant was the whole "is ice dancing a sport" debate and the attempts of the IJS to codify an appropriate scoring system.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by jersey1302 View Post
    I was actually 100% ok with the results and frankly I think its where it should of been. Obviously I realize with out the mistake that these results would of been slightly different. I am honestly not a huge fan of H/D this season. I just dont get drawn in to either of their programs. I LOVED Chock and Bates FD. It was really exciting to watch, alot of unique moments and they really seemed to be on another level this year than in the past. I think Weaver and Poje's RD is the RD to beat this year in the world IMO although we all know the judges are going to score the French team about 3-5 points higher than anyone else. I think Piper and Paul's FD is simply stunning and so truly unique and very much a reflection of themselves. You can tell how much detail they have put into their program in all the small details to the opening choreography to the twizzle sequence to the final spin. Also in saying that W/P dance is completely different than G/P and it has grown on me. I wasn't a huge fan of it when I first saw it this year but now it is one of my favourites and really will be a force at worlds if skated clean and to their potential. I love how the podium ended up I just wish it had ended like that with out a major deduction from a team.
    I'm happy that G&P finished ahead of W&P in the FD at both Four Continents and Nationals, because their Vincent program is lovely.

    I don't really get why W&P are still competing. They're in their 30's now and are the oldest team competing. By staying on, it kind of makes it harder for G&P (and F-B & S) to move up in the World standings.

    But at least G&P are closing in on W&P.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan O View Post
    I'm happy that G&P finished ahead of W&P in the FD at both Four Continents and Nationals, because their Vincent program is lovely.

    I don't really get why W&P are still competing. They're in their 30's now and are the oldest team competing. By staying on, it kind of makes it harder for G&P (and F-B & S) to move up in the World standings.

    But at least G&P are closing in on W&P.
    Things don’t stay the same forever. I’d like to think the G&P can overtake Wepo without the latter having to retire. Plus I really respect older skaters, I wish there were more!

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan O View Post
    I'm happy that G&P finished ahead of W&P in the FD at both Four Continents and Nationals, because their Vincent program is lovely.

    I don't really get why W&P are still competing. They're in their 30's now and are the oldest team competing. By staying on, it kind of makes it harder for G&P (and F-B & S) to move up in the World standings.

    But at least G&P are closing in on W&P.
    I mean, I'm pretty sure that's how W&P felt when Tessa and Scott kept competing.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan O View Post
    I'm happy that G&P finished ahead of W&P in the FD at both Four Continents and Nationals, because their Vincent program is lovely.

    I don't really get why W&P are still competing. They're in their 30's now and are the oldest team competing. By staying on, it kind of makes it harder for G&P (and F-B & S) to move up in the World standings.

    But at least G&P are closing in on W&P.
    They may technically have been the oldest in the field, but not by all that much. Yes, Poje is 31, but Evan Bates is 30, as is Nikolaj Sorenson. Andrew Dodds and Zach Donohue are 28, Tim Koleto and Paul Poirier are 27.

    (Also Kaitlyn Weaver is 29, so she's not actually in her 30s).

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan O View Post
    I'm happy that G&P finished ahead of W&P in the FD at both Four Continents and Nationals, because their Vincent program is lovely.

    I don't really get why W&P are still competing. They're in their 30's now and are the oldest team competing. By staying on, it kind of makes it harder for G&P (and F-B & S) to move up in the World standings.

    But at least G&P are closing in on W&P.
    While it does compromise G&P, it's nice to see G&P are rising to match them. Perhaps if W/P had retired, G&P might not be pushing as hard. It's nice to have a close rivalry.

    I still think even at their age W/P have a grace and maturity to bring to the field that we don't really see in many of the younger teams. And if they still love doing it and are at the top, more power to them - others can try to get better, as we've seen G/P close the gap on them.

  9. #69
    The Notorious SEW ancientpeas's Avatar
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    I can't even begin to tell you how many people would have to retire for me to be best in the world at anything.

    People should skate for as long as they want to. It is their time and their money and their life.

    And I think G&P would like to beat W&P before they retire.

  10. #70
    Outdated Old Dinosaur
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    I'm not a big supporter of the "retire so others can move up" way of thinking.

    I'm a big fan of the "I'm going to knock you off the podium" mindset for athletes.

    It doesn't always seem like it, but hard work does pay off. H/D bypassed TWO better ranked teams to claim their first national title.

    If I'm G/P, my mindset towards W/P is "Enjoy your swan song. We're tightening up our RD, and we're going to kick your butt next time. THEN you can retire."

    If, on the other hand, they're nursing hurt feelings because W/P came back, then I hope they never win again.

  11. #71
    Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset skylark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impromptu View Post
    They may technically have been the oldest in the field, but not by all that much. Yes, Poje is 31, but Evan Bates is 30, as is Nikolaj Sorenson.
    Not till next week! His birthday is Feb. 23.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy View Post
    While it does compromise G&P, it's nice to see G&P are rising to match them. Perhaps if W/P had retired, G&P might not be pushing as hard. It's nice to have a close rivalry.
    That's true. But in ice dancing, and figure skating in general, what the audience experiences emotionally is part of the power and simple enjoyment of being there, watching a program, and exulting with the skaters in what they're able to communicate with their movement. I'm glad Piper and Paul have twice won the FD over W/P, because their Starry Night program transcends all the wonderful, difficult things they do in it. But the final standing also makes a disconnect with the audience.

    Hubbell and Donohue's FD creates something much more than numbers show. They skate with incredible power, speed, authority, and a sort of joy and passion in their skating. Drama, too, esp with this R&J dance. So it all adds up to more than the sum of its parts. This is why there was such confusion from the live audience ... and all the audiences, not just in the arena, but everyone who was/is alive in that moment with Madi and Zach.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsk8 View Post
    "The performance was actually not disappointing at all, we’re very pleased overall," said Hubbell.
    Really? The lack of self-awareness from the team is disappointing, and I am their fan.

    I found H/D skate at 4CC extremely lackluster - in contrast to the fireworks at Nationals! It was like watching too different teams, I couldn't believe it's the same program.

    I can't quite put my figure on it (apart from a couple of moments of losing balance, which even my untrained eyes plainly saw), but there seemed less energy, less speed, and less soul in their 4CC performance - compared to the one at Nationals.

    Something major was missing. I know it must have been the same exact program (right?), but it just didn't look like it. JMHO

    So, while disappointing, I'm glad they got the 4th place, and weren't propped up. Fair is fair. I hope they analyze, recoup the spirit of the Nationals, regroup - and win the Worlds!

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by YagsFan View Post
    Wow, maybe I'm not understanding where many of you discussing the style of MFD/PL training camp ice dancers are meaning, but my initial reaction is wanting to ask how old you all are (not really, don't answer that!). But, do you not remember "back in the day", like the 80's/90's, when ice dance free programs were like watching theater productions?? I'm thinking Kryolva, Pesarat (sorry for spellings), Ponamerinko----really all of the top names from that era. Their programs were always telling detailed stories, complete with lots of over-the-top theatrics, costumes and make-up.
    Like I said, maybe I'm missing your points, but really??

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