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Thread: The Genius of Dubreuil and Lauzon

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    ~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~ Ladskater's Avatar
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    The Genius of Dubreuil and Lauzon

    Besides being Canadian Ice Dance champions 5 times, and World Silver medalists these two have quite a list of top ice dancers they are coaching.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrice_Lauzon

    I always admired them when they represented Canada and loved their skating. It's easy to see why they are coaching so many top teams. Congrats to them both for a successful season so far!

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    Great technical coaching for sure, but as I said in another thread, the presentation style they teach is extremely off-putting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladskater View Post
    Besides being Canadian Ice Dance champions 5 times, and World Silver medalists these two have quite a list of top ice dancers they are coaching.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrice_Lauzon

    I always admired them when they represented Canada and loved their skating. It's easy to see why they are coaching so many top teams. Congrats to them both for a successful season so far!
    You need to thank the many choreographers and other 'elements' of staff to their ice dance school that help make it happen, as well.

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    New quad, new drama GGFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ic3Rabbit View Post
    You need to thank the many choreographers and other 'elements' of staff to their ice dance school that help make it happen, as well.
    I think this is what I've been most impressed by. They've been able to make the move from creative people to managers pretty fast and really well. To have a school of their size function this well means a lot of delegation, finding the right people to work for you, and keeping those people motivated.

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    She doen't seem to be helping my babies (H/B) a lot, and she doesn't seem to be able to teach the tango rhythm dance. I know yadda about Tango rhythm dance, but I know what YNNN or NYNN means, and several commentators have commented about her students and the tango. A lot of the top US and Canadian teams have trained with her and had wonderful success, though, so what do I know. Maybe my babies have peaked.

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    On the Ice Mathman's Avatar
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    In their competitive days Dubreuil and Lauzon were my faves because they always seemed like they were actually dancing rather than performing a routine.

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    Are there any other coaches who have such a vast number of competitors in the same discipline together, much less so many heavyweights? Sure, there was Yuzu and Javi at the Cricket Club, but P/C, H/D, C/B and formerly V/M (not to mention a bunch of second-ringers) all training together... the potential for friction seems high. The rinks must be very crowded

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    ^ Zoueva and Shpilband's group had Belbin and Agosto, Virtue and Moir, Davis and White, Shibutani and Shibutani, and Chock and Bates all at the same time. Friction -- eh, so-so from time to time.

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    I’m under the impression that Romain’s technical input is an important factor.

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    I'm under your spell: Ain't nobody's business.... Ic3Rabbit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonvine View Post
    She doen't seem to be helping my babies (H/B) a lot, and she doesn't seem to be able to teach the tango rhythm dance. I know yadda about Tango rhythm dance, but I know what YNNN or NYNN means, and several commentators have commented about her students and the tango. A lot of the top US and Canadian teams have trained with her and had wonderful success, though, so what do I know. Maybe my babies have peaked.
    Please tell me this is a joke. Moving to Montreal has helped them immensely, and they would tell you that, had they not moved they would have either fallen in the standings or become irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noxchild View Post
    Are there any other coaches who have such a vast number of competitors in the same discipline together, much less so many heavyweights? Sure, there was Yuzu and Javi at the Cricket Club, but P/C, H/D, C/B and formerly V/M (not to mention a bunch of second-ringers) all training together... the potential for friction seems high. The rinks must be very crowded
    The rinks aren't crowded because of the schedule they use with the skaters, they aren't all on the ice the same days or times, it works quite nicely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ic3Rabbit View Post
    Please tell me this is a joke. Moving to Montreal has helped them immensely, and they would tell you that, had they not moved they would have either fallen in the standings or become irrelevant.

    I was not joking. Their teams are not getting level 4s on the tango pattern. Then again I just looked at the protocols and unless my eyes are failing me (broken glasses) it seems no one at 4ccs got the tango pattern 100% correct. So maybe the tango pattern is just insanely hard to learn.

    I'm glad they are happy with their move and that's what is really important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonvine View Post
    I was not joking. Their teams are not getting level 4s on the tango pattern. Then again I just looked at the protocols and unless my eyes are failing me (broken glasses) it seems no one at 4ccs got the tango pattern 100% correct. So maybe the tango pattern is just insanely hard to learn.

    I'm glad they are happy with their move and that's what is really important.
    4CC dance judging was odd all-around, that is all I will say on that topic, it does not reflect as a fail on the part of Team Gadbois.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonvine View Post
    maybe the tango pattern is just insanely hard to learn.
    Consensus from skaters and commenters this season appears to be that a) yes, the Tango Romantica pattern is quite fiendish to not only learn but get completely correct as to timing, especially since the skaters now have to contend with hitting keypoints exactly (they weren't being assessed the last time it was skated in competition, and let's face it, the rocker keypoints were pretty much intended to be brutally hard to get), and b) the combination of that pattern and the new judging guidelines/GOE range has been a bit of a perfect storm for skaters and judges alike. We might be seeing different patterns emerging, or less negative assessments of the new GOE range, if they were being used for the first time on a pattern that more teams were able to consistently achieve.

    The Gadbois teams seem to have settled on a strategy for navigating this storm, which is that - as Guillaume Cizeron put it after the RD at Europeans - while they'll work to get the pattern and keypoints as exact as they can, if hitting the keypoints means throwing away the character and 'dance-ness' of the program (which it can do), they'll save the program over the keypoints and let GOE and PCS decide the matter rather than levels. It's a valid strategy, but one that can really only work for this particular year/pattern.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harriet View Post
    Consensus from skaters and commenters this season appears to be that a) yes, the Tango Romantica pattern is quite fiendish to not only learn but get completely correct as to timing, especially since the skaters now have to contend with hitting keypoints exactly (they weren't being assessed the last time it was skated in competition, and let's face it, the rocker keypoints were pretty much intended to be brutally hard to get), and b) the combination of that pattern and the new judging guidelines/GOE range has been a bit of a perfect storm for skaters and judges alike. We might be seeing different patterns emerging, or less negative assessments of the new GOE range, if they were being used for the first time on a pattern that more teams were able to consistently achieve.

    The Gadbois teams seem to have settled on a strategy for navigating this storm, which is that - as Guillaume Cizeron put it after the RD at Europeans - while they'll work to get the pattern and keypoints as exact as they can, if hitting the keypoints means throwing away the character and 'dance-ness' of the program (which it can do), they'll save the program over the keypoints and let GOE and PCS decide the matter rather than levels. It's a valid strategy, but one that can really only work for this particular year/pattern.
    Thank you for the explanation. I have not yet gotten to see the FD from Europeans (it's on my DVR but I am way behind in sports watching.)

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    The genius of Dubreuil and Lauzon seems to be in part that they're attentive to the development of their students as human beings, not just as skaters. A number of their students have mentioned it; the latest I read were Hawayek and Baker.

    Somehow they manage to encourage a cordial environment, according to some of their skaters who've mentioned it. They compete to do their most excellent work. They're not played against each other.

    From interviews I've heard and read, I think Marie always pushes her skaters, but she motivates them with positive reinforcement. She was asked why she chose a particular piece of music the first season Hubbell/Donohue were with them. She said, because it made Madison glow. Gadbois team seems to bring out more of what's good with each skater. It's particularly noticeable with Chock/Bates this year. Their dances highlight Madison's performance, extension, etc. And in my opinion, more of Evan's personality is showing this year. As if he's not trying so hard to be the support partner. His personality shows more. And they both look lighter-hearted.

    Everything in their rinks is scheduled in 15-minute sessions, so that Marie's time can be well managed. It assures everyone that they're each getting their share of her time, Patrice's, Romain's, etc. I also wonder, maybe it maximizes the effectiveness of every fifteen minutes period. That would be my guess. I'm not saying every coach would want to do this or that every skater/team would thrive this way. But Gadbois teams seem very happy with the attention they get.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harriet View Post
    Consensus from skaters and commenters this season appears to be that a) yes, the Tango Romantica pattern is quite fiendish to not only learn but get completely correct as to timing, especially since the skaters now have to contend with hitting keypoints exactly (they weren't being assessed the last time it was skated in competition, and let's face it, the rocker keypoints were pretty much intended to be brutally hard to get), and b) the combination of that pattern and the new judging guidelines/GOE range has been a bit of a perfect storm for skaters and judges alike. We might be seeing different patterns emerging, or less negative assessments of the new GOE range, if they were being used for the first time on a pattern that more teams were able to consistently achieve.

    The Gadbois teams seem to have settled on a strategy for navigating this storm, which is that - as Guillaume Cizeron put it after the RD at Europeans - while they'll work to get the pattern and keypoints as exact as they can, if hitting the keypoints means throwing away the character and 'dance-ness' of the program (which it can do), they'll save the program over the keypoints and let GOE and PCS decide the matter rather than levels. It's a valid strategy, but one that can really only work for this particular year/pattern.
    It's a tech program. I think they should be difficult, or at the very least challenging. But that's a very fine explanation of the technical challenge presented by the TR.

    Given the utterly ridiculous emphasis on GOE and the shafting of levels, I'm beyond glad that tech panels are clamping down and being more rigorous. Lord knows what scores and placements would be if they didn't exert a modifying influence. Otherwise ID would simply be an Opinion Fest.

    About Montreal...well the programs are often cookie cutter, but I will say that has improved dramatically in the last two years. All their teams have timing issues, to one degree or another. What is interesting to me this season is those teams that trained under coaches who apparently emphasized timing more (such as C/B; Igor is a stickler for his teams getting levels) are doing better than those who haven't. Also, veteran teams have had the experience of skating patterns because they had to. Now that the patterns are being so radically de-emphasized, I think you'll see more ragged RDs in the future.

    One thing to remember: nobody stays on top forever. It wasn't so long that it was all Detroit Detroit Detroit. It's not the healthiest situation for the sport, but c'est la vie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ic3Rabbit View Post
    You need to thank the many choreographers and other 'elements' of staff to their ice dance school that help make it happen, as well.
    Yes, of course this goes without saying, but to their credit they work hard and the years they put in competitive skating are rewarded in their success as top ice dance coaches, just like Brian Orser is a top coach in his field.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladskater View Post
    Yes, of course this goes without saying, but to their credit they work hard and the years they put in competitive skating are rewarded in their success as top ice dance coaches, just like Brian Orser is a top coach in his field.
    I never said they didn't. As a former elite, now pro, believe me when I say I know the hard work that goes in.

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