"Pass with honor" vs "Pass with distinct" | Golden Skate

"Pass with honor" vs "Pass with distinct"

iceskating21

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Is "pass with honor" or "pass with disctinct" ever a goal of testing for you? Does it affect anything actually?
 

sandraskates

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
I think it's a nice incentive to have some "bragging rights" but my goal is just to pass any test I take.
I do think the new system gives the skater a better indicator of how well they mastered the skills.
 

loveohio

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
I think it's a nice incentive to have some "bragging rights" but my goal is just to pass any test I take.
I do think the new system gives the skater a better indicator of how well they mastered the skills.

Yes. My daughter passed her last Moves test with a +9, which is a 'pass with honors'. She says she won't be happy if on her later tests she doesn't pass with at least some form of honors or distinction. Her moves coach is in agreement with this approach.
 

hanyuufan5

✨**:。*
Medalist
Joined
May 19, 2018
If there were a "pass with super-ultra-mega high honors and distinction" level that only 2% of skaters get through without breaking something, I'd probably consider how good a chance I'd have at being in that 2%. :laugh: So yes.
 

chiyung

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
Is "pass with honor" or "pass with disctinct" ever a goal of testing for you?

This would never be a goal for my daughter. I want her to test her moves and pattern dance tests whenever her coach says she has an ok chance of just passing (no honors or distinction needed). It’ll take many, many more hours of lessons and practices, as well as hundreds of dollars more in coaches’ fee and ice time to get that bragging rights. It’s probably worth for some skaters, but I would rather my daughter spend her ice time & my money on her competition programs.
 

Nimyue

On the Ice
Joined
May 15, 2018
This would never be a goal for my daughter. I want her to test her moves and pattern dance tests whenever her coach says she has an ok chance of just passing (no honors or distinction needed). It’ll take many, many more hours of lessons and practices, as well as hundreds of dollars more in coaches’ fee and ice time to get that bragging rights. It’s probably worth for some skaters, but I would rather my daughter spend her ice time & my money on her competition programs.

I sort of understand this coming from the parent who writes the check perspective.

HOWEVER, moves are very important. Skating skills are very important. They are not separate from competition programs. The better one's moves get the better the overall skating quality. If you look into IJS scoring there are component scores that are going to be affected greatly by skating skills. In fact, if you look at world class skaters the ones who have good jumps and spins but lack skating skills don't do well. They end up missing the podium again and again. Moves may seem boring, but the better those skills get the better and more complicated a coach can make transitions and step sequences in your daughter's programs, and the more difficult those are and the better she can execute them will greatly improve her score.

Sorry off soap box. I get it, it's not as interesting and doesn't look as impressive, but it's super important to the skater's total package.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
I sort of understand this coming from the parent who writes the check perspective.

HOWEVER, moves are very important. Skating skills are very important. They are not separate from competition programs. The better one's moves get the better the overall skating quality. If you look into IJS scoring there are component scores that are going to be affected greatly by skating skills. In fact, if you look at world class skaters the ones who have good jumps and spins but lack skating skills don't do well. They end up missing the podium again and again. Moves may seem boring, but the better those skills get the better and more complicated a coach can make transitions and step sequences in your daughter's programs, and the more difficult those are and the better she can execute them will greatly improve her score.

Sorry off soap box. I get it, it's not as interesting and doesn't look as impressive, but it's super important to the skater's total package.

:clapper::agree: Thank you for saying this more eloquently than I was about to!
 

chiyung

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
I sort of understand this coming from the parent who writes the check perspective.

HOWEVER, moves are very important. Skating skills are very important. They are not separate from competition programs. The better one's moves get the better the overall skating quality. If you look into IJS scoring there are component scores that are going to be affected greatly by skating skills. In fact, if you look at world class skaters the ones who have good jumps and spins but lack skating skills don't do well. They end up missing the podium again and again. Moves may seem boring, but the better those skills get the better and more complicated a coach can make transitions and step sequences in your daughter's programs, and the more difficult those are and the better she can execute them will greatly improve her score.

Sorry off soap box. I get it, it's not as interesting and doesn't look as impressive, but it's super important to the skater's total package.
I totally agree that moves in the field and fundamental skating skills are very important. My concern is that spending longer than needed on a moves or pattern dance test will take time away from learning new skills that are needed for competitions or at the next level up. For example, I would want her to learn & pass her counters and rockers at Nov & Jr moves tests quickly so that she can move on to mastering her Rocker Foxtrot at a dance competition.

Also, if my daughter had tried to pass all her moves tests and tries to pass her pattern dances with honors or distinction, she would never reach her goal of passing all her international pattern dance tests before college. Different families have different goals. Spending too long on a skating test takes time and money away from progressing to higher levels of competitions. My daughter also does usually make the podium at solo dance competitions.
 

ayb2

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Also would argue that passing with honors vs no honors on prepreliminary or preliminary mitf at 6 years old probably says very little about your skating skills at 16.
 

concorde

Medalist
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Also would argue that passing with honors vs no honors on prepreliminary or preliminary mitf at 6 years old probably says very little about your skating skills at 16.

Not to mention those that passed all of their tests before those distinctions were added.

I can see wanting those classifations for the final Senior test but I really don't see a real benefit at the other levels. I would rather spend the time and money moving up than trying to add a distinction at a lower level test.
 

VegMom

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
This was a goal for my skater's coach. The added pressure of not just passing but passing with honors or distinction wasn't worth it. Too much time spent on doing something my skater hates. Can't tell you how many times I heard "I want to quit skating if I have to keep doing this."
Testing is stressful enough. I think this aspect of it is not very helpful to developing good skaters. If it's important, just make it part of basic passing.

---
Edit to update: My skater likes Juvenile moves much better than the previous ones and will practice them on his own without a lesson now. He's also maturing as a person and as a skater. He still doesn't explicitly have passing with honors as a goal but he's no longer just annoyed and frustrated by MITF practice and testing. Probably also has something to do with a coaching change we made wherein current emphasis is on progress and fun, not perfection.

My skater likes to jump and spin and thinks footwork is fun but he likes to compete or do his own choreo the most. Focus on honors at low levels is just weird IMO. Young kids usually hate it and this emphasis on perfection can suck the joy and creativity out of skating for them. They have plenty of time to learn and grow as they mature.

Also, I think this can really vary too depending on where a skater is training. Some places can only do testing a few times a year. So they can't always choose the most ideal time to do a MITF test if they want/should compete at a certain level. This limits their ability to obtain honors. Other areas have so many rinks and clubs that there's testing available nearly every other week so they and their coaches can really plan well.
 

hanyuufan5

✨**:。*
Medalist
Joined
May 19, 2018
Not to mention those that passed all of their tests before those distinctions were added.

I can see wanting those classifations for the final Senior test but I really don't see a real benefit at the other levels. I would rather spend the time and money moving up than trying to add a distinction at a lower level test.

Everything builds on the previous levels. There's a huge benefit right from the start. I can understand and respect if that's not everyone's priority, but it's definitely there whether a skater cares about it or not.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
And this is why skating skills in competitions are nothing to call home about anymore.

So many say that they think that Patrick Chan and others are amazing with their feet and edges, control and glide. Where do you think he got that from?!:sarcasm:

Not from rushing through tests so they can "progress." Also, having less than remarkable control of your blade and turns, rockers, counters etc won't do you any favors in ice dance.
 

claref

Spectator
Joined
Feb 5, 2019
No. I hate this "pass with honors" type scoring. I find it to be exacerbating the already too-prevalent elitism in figure skating, at least in my area. If I'm being honest, my goal is simply to pass.
 

chiyung

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 1, 2017
No. I hate this "pass with honors" type scoring. I find it to be exacerbating the already too-prevalent elitism in figure skating, at least in my area. If I'm being honest, my goal is simply to pass.
I never thought about it this way before, but now I am, and I think that’s why the new test scoring system bugs me.
 

hanyuufan5

✨**:。*
Medalist
Joined
May 19, 2018
I don't know anything about anyone else's areas/rinks and would never claim to know how elitist they are or aren't, but there's nothing elitist about wanting top-notch skating skills.
 

jf12

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
I actually think it encourages judges to be more generous in their leeway to give + and - as well as better comments. Before this I got so many tests back without any criticism on it and only compliments with the passing standard marks, I think that was a bit of a default for some. I took one test since this new thing came out and I did get more positive and negative comments on individual moves. I do consider it more important to pass than the difference between passing with honors or not, as judges differ so much on how liberal they are with extra points. You very often see judges all 3 agreeing on pass/retry and I rarely see all 3 judges agree on regular pass/honors/distinction.
 

Dancesonice

Spectator
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Well, it was a great bonus for me going from a failed dance to retesting it and getting "honors". It was not my goal by any means, just wanted to pass and was determined not to mess up the timing this time! I was well prepared and this was probably the only dance I will ever get honors on (cha cha). Before testing it the first time, I was actually secretly hoping to get more than just "pass". So you can imagine my disappointment then.
 

cl2

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
And this is why skating skills in competitions are nothing to call home about anymore.

So many say that they think that Patrick Chan and others are amazing with their feet and edges, control and glide. Where do you think he got that from?!:sarcasm:

Not from rushing through tests so they can "progress." Also, having less than remarkable control of your blade and turns, rockers, counters etc won't do you any favors in ice dance.

I don't think anyone is dissing honors-worthy skating skills. Passing a test without honors now doesn't mean the skater will never acquire honors-worthy skills for that level in future, as he/she progresses beyond that test.

It's just a matter of whether she tests at that level earlier her career, when she is pass-ready, or later when she is honors-worthy. Whichever she chooses who depend on when she needs the test completed in order to advance her career goals.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
I don't think anyone is dissing honors-worthy skating skills. Passing a test without honors now doesn't mean the skater will never acquire honors-worthy skills for that level in future, as he/she progresses beyond that test.

It's just a matter of whether she tests at that level earlier her career, when she is pass-ready, or later when she is honors-worthy. Whichever she chooses who depend on when she needs the test completed in order to advance her career goals.

I think you missed what(who)I was responding to. 3 months ago yet. Let it die.
 
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