"Pass with honor" vs "Pass with distinct" | Page 3 | Golden Skate

"Pass with honor" vs "Pass with distinct"

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
FS tests? Those are notoriously well below the skaters skill level. I didn’t realize you could pass with distinction and honors on those. I’m keeping that fun fact from my younger skater, the perfectionist.

I do know that my older skater will get super anxious and all of a sudden look like Bambi on ice during a test session. Literally. She skidded into the wall and couldn’t control her edges. :scratch2: Her coach does everything to help, including over preparing her. For her most recent MIF test she actually did worse the second time taking it. Nearly passed the first time and didn’t even come close the second.

And yes they are both in therapy. Looking at a sports specific one now!

Apparently your coach has your skaters taking their tests then when they are past those skill levels, if you are saying the tests are "notoriously well below the skaters skill level"

For many this is not true, some live in places where they have to test whatever they can when there will be judges in the area for the tests, and this means some are testing higher than skill set is for at time.

Just saying.
 

sandraskates

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
Apparently your coach has your skaters taking their tests then when they are past those skill levels, if you are saying the tests are "notoriously well below the skaters skill level"

For many this is not true, some live in places where they have to test whatever they can when there will be judges in the area for the tests, and this means some are testing higher than skill set is for at time.

Just saying.

And to dovetail a little more: skaters can work to test more than one test at the same test session.
"If you pass this, you'll go on to take that" on the same day. Common with lower level ice dance, moves, and some free-skate tests.
 

VegMom

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
I do consider it more important to pass than the difference between passing with honors or not, as judges differ so much on how liberal they are with extra points. You very often see judges all 3 agreeing on pass/retry and I rarely see all 3 judges agree on regular pass/honors/distinction.
Yes I agree. And with the tests and IJS scoring as well I see that lack of agreement for honors. Many many times my skater receives +1 from one judge and -1 from another on the same element. There's stuff they agree on, of course, but often there's at least a few things they don't agree on. I honestly think a lot of it is just that it's challenging to judge young kids. Kids do not develop in a linear way. But I also think there are just certain skaters that are just more 'controversial' maybe?

Some possible reasons:
[...]

*The skater is better at jumping than at skating and wants to be able to test up in freestyle to a level where she's allowed to use all the jumps she can do, or she wants to keep up with her peers in which level to compete at
That's my skater. He wanted to compete with doubles but was still struggling to learn preliminary MITF at the level his former coach felt was sufficient to move up. It became quite a problem actually because she felt he was never skating 'well enough' for honors which he interpreted as she didn't think he was 'good enough' period. Not a good enough skater to even keep skating.


Apparently your coach has your skaters taking their tests then when they are past those skill levels, if you are saying the tests are "notoriously well below the skaters skill level"
I think what was meant was that the FS tests are usually well below the requirements to be competitive. So a skater who is following the competitive pipeline isn't going to do a FS test until they're ready to compete at that level, which means the test should be pretty easy to pass.

However, now at Juv and up the FS test can be done AT competition. This saves everyone time and money and IMO is a huge benefit for all involved. But also, it means that many skaters will be skating something higher level than is necessary to pass the test, because it's during competition and they want the points, which may mean they may NOT get honors on that test. Example: a wobbly but not perfect triple in a Juv program is going to get more points and better hardware but likely won't do anything to help get an honors award on the test.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
Yes I agree. And with the tests and IJS scoring as well I see that lack of agreement for honors. Many many times my skater receives +1 from one judge and -1 from another on the same element. There's stuff they agree on, of course, but often there's at least a few things they don't agree on. I honestly think a lot of it is just that it's challenging to judge young kids. Kids do not develop in a linear way. But I also think there are just certain skaters that are just more 'controversial' maybe?


That's my skater. He wanted to compete with doubles but was still struggling to learn preliminary MITF at the level his former coach felt was sufficient to move up. It became quite a problem actually because she felt he was never skating 'well enough' for honors which he interpreted as she didn't think he was 'good enough' period. Not a good enough skater to even keep skating.



I think what was meant was that the FS tests are usually well below the requirements to be competitive. So a skater who is following the competitive pipeline isn't going to do a FS test until they're ready to compete at that level, which means the test should be pretty easy to pass.

However, now at Juv and up the FS test can be done AT competition. This saves everyone time and money and IMO is a huge benefit for all involved. But also, it means that many skaters will be skating something higher level than is necessary to pass the test, because it's during competition and they want the points, which may mean they may NOT get honors on that test. Example: a wobbly but not perfect triple in a Juv program is going to get more points and better hardware but likely won't do anything to help get an honors award on the test.

I don't really need a lesson in this, it's my life.
 

concorde

Medalist
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
And to dovetail a little more: skaters can work to test more than one test at the same test session.
"If you pass this, you'll go on to take that" on the same day. Common with lower level ice dance, moves, and some free-skate tests.
We used to belong to a FSC with lots of skater. Due to the volume of skaters that wanted to take a test, "provisional" testing was not allowed.

My advice, if you want to sign up for multiple test in one day, check your club's rules before you assuming provisional testing is allowed.
 

jf12

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
We used to belong to a FSC with lots of skater. Due to the volume of skaters that wanted to take a test, "provisional" testing was not allowed.

My advice, if you want to sign up for multiple test in one day, check your club's rules before you assuming provisional testing is allowed.

A little off the topic but I once saw someone take 18 dances at one test session - he was an ex elite dancer from another country and moved to the US to coach. 😅
 

sandraskates

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
A little off the topic but I once saw someone take 18 dances at one test session - he was an ex elite dancer from another country and moved to the US to coach. 

I am exhausted just reading and thinking about taking 18 dances in one test session. :laugh:
 

Sunshine247

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 17, 2018
Yes I agree. And with the tests and IJS scoring as well I see that lack of agreement for honors. Many many times my skater receives +1 from one judge and -1 from another on the same element. There's stuff they agree on, of course, but often there's at least a few things they don't agree on. I honestly think a lot of it is just that it's challenging to judge young kids. Kids do not develop in a linear way. But I also think there are just certain skaters that are just more 'controversial' maybe?


That's my skater. He wanted to compete with doubles but was still struggling to learn preliminary MITF at the level his former coach felt was sufficient to move up. It became quite a problem actually because she felt he was never skating 'well enough' for honors which he interpreted as she didn't think he was 'good enough' period. Not a good enough skater to even keep skating.



I think what was meant was that the FS tests are usually well below the requirements to be competitive. So a skater who is following the competitive pipeline isn't going to do a FS test until they're ready to compete at that level, which means the test should be pretty easy to pass.

However, now at Juv and up the FS test can be done AT competition. This saves everyone time and money and IMO is a huge benefit for all involved. But also, it means that many skaters will be skating something higher level than is necessary to pass the test, because it's during competition and they want the points, which may mean they may NOT get honors on that test. Example: a wobbly but not perfect triple in a Juv program is going to get more points and better hardware but likely won't do anything to help get an honors award on the test.

At one recent test session a young friend of DD got a +4 from one judge and a -4 from another. The judge who scored in the negative basically didn’t pass anyone that day. Luckily they had 3 judges and she did pass. My older skater basically missed by one point at that MIF. The very next month had a disastrous retry. I can respect if there are standards but it’s rough when they’re not consistent.

My older skater is a teen skater who’s getting a bit discouraged trying to balance everything. (AP and honors student with good grades and a talented violinist.) She’s only skated about 2 1/2 years and is already getting a consistent axel and a few basic doubles. I just want her to learn what she can and feel good about skating. She does love it usually. Kinda sad the sport is tough on those who start late. The excel series has been nice for providing her opportunities to compete and train for a goal, but I haven’t shared the info on “honors or distinction” in testing with her. Not sure if her coach has said much about it either. For our situation it’s not very helpful they’ve added it.

My younger skater is very different. She threw an axel in her Pre-Pre FS test. Lol.�� She’s one who “skates up” in competition but struggles with MIF as well. She did pass Preliminary MIF but doesn’t care if she squeaks by. Lol. She’d be way beyond her MIF in FS tests if it was allowed. I’m on the fence about talking with her about passing with honors etc. On the one hand it could motivate her to try harder to develop her MIF, but on the other hand she could get sidetracked trying to perfect every move. I’m very conflicted. Lol.
 

Seren

Wakabond Forever
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
When I started testing and competing (as an adult)my coach told me to remember that 0’s are good (as opposed to minuses). Pluses are great but be happy with zeros. This is true for both tests (be happy with passing at the standard) and competitions (no negative GOE, great!). Judges tend to be a lot more liberal with minuses than the pluses so be proud of a pass regardless.

When I got a “retry” on my adult gold moves in the field test my joke was that I “failed with distinction”.
 
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