New boot from Riedell - Elara Vega | Page 2 | Golden Skate

New boot from Riedell - Elara Vega

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
This is soooo disappointing.... ugh...

I hope they keep their current line at least. Jeez soon I'm going to have to shell out for SP Teris or Harlicks for my daughter just to keep her in a leather freaking boot.

Or Jackson, or Risport, or Graf.;)
 

Nimyue

On the Ice
Joined
May 15, 2018
Or Jackson, or Risport, or Graf.;)

With Jackson I'd have to buy her an elite and we are soooo not there yet! All their lower level boots are plastic. Our local fitter doesn't have access to Risport or Graf either. I'm also using 'local' a bit loosely. It's a three hour drive!
 

Sibelius

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
This is soooo disappointing.... ugh...

I hope they keep their current line at least. Jeez soon I'm going to have to shell out for SP Teris or Harlicks for my daughter just to keep her in a leather freaking boot.

Just curious, what do you see as the problem with a non leather boot (not Edeas)? Mine is now in a Debut microfiber that has taken her to 2Lo without issue (from a leather Elle, before they changed to microfiber). We visited Sp-Teri this past weekend for a sharpening and a long discussion about Edeas, Jacksons and her next boots. They will put her in their Zero Gravity X-line, which is leather and very heavy compared to her current Debut. There might be a battle in a couple of months since she loves the lightness of her boots now.
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
With Jackson I'd have to buy her an elite and we are soooo not there yet! All their lower level boots are plastic. Our local fitter doesn't have access to Risport or Graf either. I'm also using 'local' a bit loosely. It's a three hour drive!
The current (5000 series) stock Jackson Elite no longer have leather uppers. If you want leather uppers, they are available as a non-stock option for customs. Among the Jackson competitive line, the only model left with stock leather uppers is the boy's/men's Premiers. The girl's/women's Premiers have been cut over to the Premier Fusion (non-leather uppers); so it's reasonable to assume that the boy's/men's model will also at some point cut over to a Fusion model.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
With Jackson I'd have to buy her an elite and we are soooo not there yet! All their lower level boots are plastic. Our local fitter doesn't have access to Risport or Graf either. I'm also using 'local' a bit loosely. It's a three hour drive!

Or they can make her semi custom leather boots for her level.

All I wear at my level (yes I know I'm a rarity here) is custom leather. I will not wear synthetic anything.
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
All I wear at my level (yes I know I'm a rarity here) is custom leather. I will not wear synthetic anything.
Hi Ic3. Could you please clarify why you are opposed to synthetic boots? Have you had experience with any? I'm not opposed, just cautious. Sometimes new materials are better than the old for a particular application; sometimes worse. And often you don't find out the pluses and minuses until a lot of customers have tried them out over a long time. Adding to the confusion, of course, is that there are many synthetics out there, and the manufacturers don't typically specify what they are using [but, then, there are many grades of leather and different processes for manufacturing leather as well]. Thanks.
 

Nimyue

On the Ice
Joined
May 15, 2018
The current (5000 series) stock Jackson Elite no longer have leather uppers. If you want leather uppers, they are available as a non-stock option for customs. Among the Jackson competitive line, the only model left with stock leather uppers is the boy's/men's Premiers. The girl's/women's Premiers have been cut over to the Premier Fusion (non-leather uppers); so it's reasonable to assume that the boy's/men's model will also at some point cut over to a Fusion model.

Yes exactly. It would be a custom and Jackson only customizes the 5000 series, which is way too much boot.

And the answer to why is that I'm a traditionalist and I just don't like the non-leather boots. I've skated in them, and my new boots were all leather and they just felt better and looked nicer. I'm with IceRabbit. I won't go back to synthetic so I'm not putting my daughter in synthetic.

I'd also like to add: I talked to Riedell and they are keeping their old line. I really like Riedell for my daughter as her foot shape matches their last the best, and for only a small adder you can semi-custom any stock model so I can get her a split width that way :)
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
And the answer to why is that I'm a traditionalist and I just don't like the non-leather boots. I've skated in them, and my new boots were all leather and they just felt better and looked nicer. I'm with IceRabbit. I won't go back to synthetic so I'm not putting my daughter in synthetic.
Which synthetic boot did you wear?
 

IsKAtEFaSt

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
Hi Ic3. Could you please clarify why you are opposed to synthetic boots? Have you had experience with any? I'm not opposed, just cautious. Sometimes new materials are better than the old for a particular application; sometimes worse. And often you don't find out the pluses and minuses until a lot of customers have tried them out over a long time. Adding to the confusion, of course, is that there are many synthetics out there, and the manufacturers don't typically specify what they are using [but, then, there are many grades of leather and different processes for manufacturing leather as well]. Thanks.


I don't see why anyone should wear leather boots. Leather boots have been shown by research to weaken ankles and increase likelihood of injury due to their longer break-in period. Synthetic boots can improve ankle strength, because of their shorter break-in period and more consistent stiffness and as a bonus, you can jump higher in synthetics. And there's no reason why you shouldn't switch to synthetics. Other skating sports i.e. hockey, speed skating, have been using synthetics for decades, which led to better performance. The only reason the elites and pros are still on leather boots because most of them are big-headed and old-fashioned anyways.
 

sandraskates

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
I don't see why anyone should wear leather boots. Leather boots have been shown by research to weaken ankles and increase likelihood of injury due to their longer break-in period. Synthetic boots can improve ankle strength, because of their shorter break-in period and more consistent stiffness and as a bonus, you can jump higher in synthetics. And there's no reason why you shouldn't switch to synthetics. Other skating sports i.e. hockey, speed skating, have been using synthetics for decades, which led to better performance. The only reason the elites and pros are still on leather boots because most of them are big-headed and old-fashioned anyways.

I am open minded to different models and materials for boots. I know skaters and pros that use both traditional and synthetic boots. My skate tech would give you an earful on why he does not like synthetic boots.

I'm finding your sweeping declarations regarding figure skating and skaters - such as your last sentence - are now bordering on trolling.
 

IsKAtEFaSt

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
I am open minded to different models and materials for boots. I know skaters and pros that use both traditional and synthetic boots. My skate tech would give you an earful on why he does not like synthetic boots.

I'm finding your sweeping declarations regarding figure skating and skaters - such as your last sentence - are now bordering on trolling.

Maybe your skate tech should read on current biomechanics research rather than rely on his guts.
 

sandraskates

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
How about you cite your sources and post some links for the biomechanics claims you are making regarding synthetic boots?
And I mean figure skating boots, not hockey or speed skating. That would be helpful and enlightening to those of us that are interested.

Figure skating boots have certainly evolved over the years (look at old Sonia Henie films, they were up to her calves) and will continue to do so.
 

IsKAtEFaSt

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
How about you cite your sources and post some links for the biomechanics claims you are making regarding synthetic boots?
And I mean figure skating boots, not hockey or speed skating. That would be helpful and enlightening to those of us that are interested.

Figure skating boots have certainly evolved over the years (look at old Sonia Henie films, they were up to her calves) and will continue to do so.

https://etd.ohiolink.edu/!etd.send_file?accession=ohiou1490346788544816&disposition=inline

https://gih.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:974139/FULLTEXT01.pdf
 

Bill S

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
United-States
I remember the call for participants in the first study cited (vertical force, barefoot vs skates)! That research took place at my rink. I was pleased to see that one of the faculty who is named in the acknowledgements section is a skater and figure skating judge. I skate with her three times per week, and her specialty is theoretical nuclear physics. It's nice to see that bit of skating research completed. (Note: I'm retired faculty from OU. Please allow for some bias.)

I read both studies, and in the second, it's my thinking that the materials don't make as much difference as you might think. I believe the geometry of the skate has a larger influence. In the OU study, the comparison showed that the bare foot endured smaller vertical impulses. I believe that's because we normally land on our toes, then roll back onto the heel. That spreads out the landing force over time.

I would bet that a boot with a lower backstay, regardless of materials, would test better in the second study. It would allow more toe point on way down, allowing the toe to make contact earlier than it can in boots that don't allow the "landing roll". But this is also a trade-off. Lateral stiffness is also very important, and may be compromised to some extent with a lower backstay.

Interesting stuff, but these studies could be expanded to include more variables to see what's significant, and what's not. It's too bad that neither study had more funds to take it further.
 

IsKAtEFaSt

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
I remember the call for participants in the first study cited (vertical force, barefoot vs skates)! That research took place at my rink. I was pleased to see that one of the faculty who is named in the acknowledgements section is a skater and figure skating judge. I skate with her three times per week, and her specialty is theoretical nuclear physics. It's nice to see that bit of skating research completed. (Note: I'm retired faculty from OU. Please allow for some bias.)

I read both studies, and in the second, it's my thinking that the materials don't make as much difference as you might think. I believe the geometry of the skate has a larger influence. In the OU study, the comparison showed that the bare foot endured smaller vertical impulses. I believe that's because we normally land on our toes, then roll back onto the heel. That spreads out the landing force over time.

I would bet that a boot with a lower backstay, regardless of materials, would test better in the second study. It would allow more toe point on way down, allowing the toe to make contact earlier than it can in boots that don't allow the "landing roll". But this is also a trade-off. Lateral stiffness is also very important, and may be compromised to some extent with a lower backstay.

Interesting stuff, but these studies could be expanded to include more variables to see what's significant, and what's not. It's too bad that neither study had more funds to take it further.

I actually found the article recommending synthetic skates. From the same guy who wrote one of the articles I shared but this one's not a formal research paper.
https://lermagazine.com/cover_story/over-the-edge-lower-extremity-injuries-in-figure-skaters

But you're right. Research should continue in this area, and I don't see why skate manufacturers wouldn't fund it, I'm thinking it can improve boot sales .
 

Bill S

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
United-States
Another interesting read.

I see also some suggestions for boot geometry changes in that story, including something that I never thought of - the benefits of a lower heel height.

BTW, thanks for providing the links.
 

IsKAtEFaSt

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 17, 2019
The lower heel never occurred to me either- from a biomechanics point of view it position the foot more naturally and take impact off of the landing foot and therefore the overuse injuries.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
Hi Ic3. Could you please clarify why you are opposed to synthetic boots? Have you had experience with any? I'm not opposed, just cautious. Sometimes new materials are better than the old for a particular application; sometimes worse. And often you don't find out the pluses and minuses until a lot of customers have tried them out over a long time. Adding to the confusion, of course, is that there are many synthetics out there, and the manufacturers don't typically specify what they are using [but, then, there are many grades of leather and different processes for manufacturing leather as well]. Thanks.

Yes, I wouldn't be saying I hate synthetic boots if I didn't have experience with them. ;)
I have tried Edea: Ice Fly for freestyle as well as the Flamenco for dance. They felt similar to wearing braces for off ice ankle rehab IMHO.

I have tried other brands in testing stages that were "synthetic" or partly "synthetic" and also did not like those.

I just happen to love my leather and will keep it that way, I know other pros that feel strongly the same way, but I also have pro and elite friends that love their synthetics. I just say whatever works for you and makes you happy and the best skater is fine. That is leather for me and why I skate in Jackson and Risport custom.
 

Sam L

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Risport has natural leather uppers and they’re fantastic. At least for the RF line which I’ve tried.
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
Yes, I wouldn't be saying I hate synthetic boots if I didn't have experience with them. ;)
I have tried Edea: Ice Fly for freestyle as well as the Flamenco for dance. They felt similar to wearing braces for off ice ankle rehab IMHO.

I have tried other brands in testing stages that were "synthetic" or partly "synthetic" and also did not like those.

I just happen to love my leather and will keep it that way, I know other pros that feel strongly the same way, but I also have pro and elite friends that love their synthetics. I just say whatever works for you and makes you happy and the best skater is fine. That is leather for me and why I skate in Jackson and Risport custom.
Thanks for the response. Have you tried the Jackson 5000 series synthetic boots?
 
Top