New boot from Riedell - Elara Vega | Page 3 | Golden Skate

New boot from Riedell - Elara Vega

tothepointe

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Interesting that on their webpage, they say that you can "pre-order" the Elara (is it "Elara Vega" or are there two models - "Elara" and "Vega"?). Why in the world would you pre-order something you can't try on? They haven't yet added it to the page displaying their boot lineup, so not sure where this falls in terms of stiffness and other features.

I know this has nothing to do with fit/performance (which are the most important things) but I think they are really ugly (like Edea's ugly step-sister).

They are probably referring to retailers when offering the preorder option. Reidell sizing tends to be very consistent across their entire line though.
 

treblemakerem

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Personally I really like my synthetic Jacksons (I wear the premieres). I was not interested in trying Edeas due to the way they fit (I tend to like them to be very tight and I think Edeas would have driven me crazy) but I did want a lighter boot so mine are perfect for me. They feel very supportive but weren't too hard to break it. I was talking to one of the coaches at my rink and she was saying how she liked the heaviness of her boots because she felt like she used the weight of them in her jumps. It seems things are going the way of synthetic now so for a young kid or newer skater it might be worth it to try them, but for someone who has always worn leather boots switching could be a lot more difficult. You would have to adjust your technique and it would just feel different. So it's not that there's anything wrong with either of them, just personal preference.
 

Sibelius

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Personally I really like my synthetic Jacksons (I wear the premieres). I was not interested in trying Edeas due to the way they fit (I tend to like them to be very tight and I think Edeas would have driven me crazy) but I did want a lighter boot so mine are perfect for me. They feel very supportive but weren't too hard to break it. I was talking to one of the coaches at my rink and she was saying how she liked the heaviness of her boots because she felt like she used the weight of them in her jumps. It seems things are going the way of synthetic now so for a young kid or newer skater it might be worth it to try them, but for someone who has always worn leather boots switching could be a lot more difficult. You would have to adjust your technique and it would just feel different. So it's not that there's anything wrong with either of them, just personal preference.

How stiff (real world, not Jackson 65 number) do you find the Premiere's? My skater is in the Debut Standard which her fitter tells us is VERY STIFF and Jackson give a "40" stiffness rating to. That's quite a jump to the Premiere rating if the percentage change is accurate.

The guys at Sp-Teri say that heavier boots help center and hold spins better, less travel. Not sure how much that's just "spin" (sorry, couldn't resist) or an accurate statement. We've got a tough decision coming in a couple of months whether to move up in Jacksons go to Sp-Teri or Harlick. If it's Jackson it will likely have to be a modified Premiere or Elite so it's not so stiff, that means far more $$$ than stock.
 

Nimyue

On the Ice
Joined
May 15, 2018
How stiff (real world, not Jackson 65 number) do you find the Premiere's? My skater is in the Debut Standard which her fitter tells us is VERY STIFF and Jackson give a "40" stiffness rating to. That's quite a jump to the Premiere rating if the percentage change is accurate.

The guys at Sp-Teri say that heavier boots help center and hold spins better, less travel. Not sure how much that's just "spin" (sorry, couldn't resist) or an accurate statement. We've got a tough decision coming in a couple of months whether to move up in Jacksons go to Sp-Teri or Harlick. If it's Jackson it will likely have to be a modified Premiere or Elite so it's not so stiff, that means far more $$$ than stock.

The Premiere is just a stiffer Debut. It's the same style. Full synthetic boot, high heel, etc. The elite you can fully customize and even a full custom is cheaper than SP Teri or Harlick.
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
How stiff (real world, not Jackson 65 number) do you find the Premiere's? My skater is in the Debut Standard which her fitter tells us is VERY STIFF and Jackson give a "40" stiffness rating to. That's quite a jump to the Premiere rating if the percentage change is accurate.
<<Emphasis added>> Ah, but that's where the problem lies. Since there is no industry standard for measuring boot stiffness, and since manufacturers don't release details of how they measure boot stiffness, we really don't know how a "65" compares to a "40".
 

Marushaa

Spectator
Joined
Mar 11, 2019
Whilst looking for the additional info, found this. Thought might be useful for others too:


Skaterz Ice Skating Supply

2.May 2018

One more thing about the Riedell trip and then I will stop. Jade mentioned the new line that Riedell will be introducing in the fall. I was out of the room when it was introduced to the group, but when I walked back in and saw it, my first word was WOW! It is truly a beautiful skate. They wouldn't let us take pictures, but they said we could talk about it. There are two versions of this skate. The first is the Vega which is equivalent to the Riedell Motion and the second is the Elara (or maybe Elaria), which is equivalent to the Riedell Aria and they compared it to the Edea Ice Fly. I can't wait to see how it does when it hits the shelves. We will keep you posted!
 

Sibelius

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
<<Emphasis added>> Ah, but that's where the problem lies. Since there is no industry standard for measuring boot stiffness, and since manufacturers don't release details of how they measure boot stiffness, we really don't know how a "65" compares to a "40".

But within the line I think it's relatively consistent. I'm not interested in Riedell v. Jackson v. Sp-Teri v. anything else. If a skater goes from the Freestyle to the Premiere they should be able to tell how much stiffer. Her comment that is just a stiffer Debut tells me quite a bit.
 

Sibelius

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
The Premiere is just a stiffer Debut. It's the same style. Full synthetic boot, high heel, etc. The elite you can fully customize and even a full custom is cheaper than SP Teri or Harlick.


Thanks, that tells me quite a bit. She fits pretty well in the stock Debut (Sp-Teri made some moderate adjustments) so that might be the best next step before full custom.
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
But within the line I think it's relatively consistent. I'm not interested in Riedell v. Jackson v. Sp-Teri v. anything else. If a skater goes from the Freestyle to the Premiere they should be able to tell how much stiffer. Her comment that is just a stiffer Debut tells me quite a bit.
I am talking about stiffness ratings within a single manufacturer's line. Right now, all you know is that a higher number refers to a stiffer boot: a 65 is stiffer than a 40. But without knowing how stiffness is measured, and how the scale is set, you don't know how much stiffer. For example, is the increase in stiffness from 40 to 50 the same as the increase in stiffness from 50 to 60? Is 80 twice as stiff as 40?

By analogy, consider temperature scales. Freezing point of water = 0 deg C = 32 deg F. Boiling point of water = 100 deg C = 212 deg F. So the difference in temperatures between the boiling point and the freezing point of water is 100 deg C, but 180 deg F; and you run into big problems if you try to take ratios of the temperatures.
 

treblemakerem

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
How stiff (real world, not Jackson 65 number) do you find the Premiere's? My skater is in the Debut Standard which her fitter tells us is VERY STIFF and Jackson give a "40" stiffness rating to. That's quite a jump to the Premiere rating if the percentage change is accurate.

The guys at Sp-Teri say that heavier boots help center and hold spins better, less travel. Not sure how much that's just "spin" (sorry, couldn't resist) or an accurate statement. We've got a tough decision coming in a couple of months whether to move up in Jacksons go to Sp-Teri or Harlick. If it's Jackson it will likely have to be a modified Premiere or Elite so it's not so stiff, that means far more $$$ than stock.

It's hard to say as these are the first Jackson boots I've had so I can't really compare them. Before I was wearing a lower level Riedell boot that never fit me right so it's not a good comparison. I particularly wanted a pretty stiff boot. I am working on axel right now and they definitely feel stiff but I'm also able to get a pretty good ankle bend. I do a lot of footwork and have pretty good control over edges. They are perfect for me, but it's hard to compare. I was basically a professional level Irish dancer and my feet are really strong, so I'm probably not the best gauge. If Jacksons fit your daughter well I would suggest trying them on and seeing what she thinks. Isn't there also a stiffer version of the debut? That might be an option if the premiere is too stiff.
 

Sibelius

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
I am talking about stiffness ratings within a single manufacturer's line. Right now, all you know is that a higher number refers to a stiffer boot: a 65 is stiffer than a 40. But without knowing how stiffness is measured, and how the scale is set, you don't know how much stiffer. For example, is the increase in stiffness from 40 to 50 the same as the increase in stiffness from 50 to 60? Is 80 twice as stiff as 40?

By analogy, consider temperature scales. Freezing point of water = 0 deg C = 32 deg F. Boiling point of water = 100 deg C = 212 deg F. So the difference in temperatures between the boiling point and the freezing point of water is 100 deg C, but 180 deg F; and you run into big problems if you try to take ratios of the temperatures.

I'm not after rocket science here, or even basic P-Chem. I'm after, "well, I had the Debut and moved to the Premiere and it was a bit stiffer, but not so much that I had to spend months breaking them in, or Oh My God I Couldn't Move!" That's all I want to know.
 

Sibelius

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
It's hard to say as these are the first Jackson boots I've had so I can't really compare them. Before I was wearing a lower level Riedell boot that never fit me right so it's not a good comparison. I particularly wanted a pretty stiff boot. I am working on axel right now and they definitely feel stiff but I'm also able to get a pretty good ankle bend. I do a lot of footwork and have pretty good control over edges. They are perfect for me, but it's hard to compare. I was basically a professional level Irish dancer and my feet are really strong, so I'm probably not the best gauge. If Jacksons fit your daughter well I would suggest trying them on and seeing what she thinks. Isn't there also a stiffer version of the debut? That might be an option if the premiere is too stiff.


There is a version that's a bit stiffer, not much. She'll be working on her higher doubles (2F, 2Lz and 2A) in her next boots so they've got to work for that level. There's a skater at our rink wearing them for those jumps now (one of the VERY few not in Edea's). It will be a tough choice to make since Jackson's do fit her very well. As usual, there just isn't the option of walking into the store and trying them on since nobody really stocks these boots, mostly the Elle and Freestyle, maybe Debut, but that's it.
 

Nimyue

On the Ice
Joined
May 15, 2018
I just wanted to add to this that when I was at my fitter's yesterday I asked about these.

He likes the Riedells FAR more than the Edeas which he also carries. The new Riedell has the advantage of being on the Riedell last, so you will be able to get these in custom widths and split-widths unlike the Edea.

I personally don't like a high-heeled plastic boot, but if you do, these seem like a better option than Edea to get a better fit.
 

ST Dog

Spectator
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
But without knowing how stiffness is measured, and how the scale is set, you don't know how much stiffer. For example, is the increase in stiffness from 40 to 50 the same as the increase in stiffness from 50 to 60? Is 80 twice as stiff as 40?

Like linear scale? Log scale?
How does the human body perceive changes?

For example humans do not perceive brightness or loudness in a linear fusion. It takes 10 times the power to sound twice as loud.

What would it take for some one to perceive twice as stiff in a boot?
 

ST Dog

Spectator
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Why in the world would you pre-order something you can't try on?

Well, the last 4 or 5 pairs for my daughter were ordered without being able to try them on first.
And the last pair couldn't have been returned if she didn't like them.

Same with my boots, as most men's boots are considered special order and not a general stock item.
I couldn't just walk into the shop and find them on the shelf.


So preordering these would be no different that those. It would just get you on the list for early production. And it could be a while before anyone stocks them anywhere.

As far as I know no boots can be returned once blades have been mounted to see how they feel when skated.
(Nor a combo with mounted blades once sharpened)

Maybe a big, high volume shop would allow that in some cases (stock boot/blade combos) since they have the turnover to resell them, but few places with limited stock/turn over is going too. Certainly not any within 100 miles of me.
 

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
You feel and you know. Again, as someone else stated in this thread, this isn't rocket science.
 

tstop4me

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Country
United-States
Like linear scale? Log scale?
How does the human body perceive changes?

For example humans do not perceive brightness or loudness in a linear fusion. It takes 10 times the power to sound twice as loud.

What would it take for some one to perceive twice as stiff in a boot?
The point I've been trying to make is that skaters should not get overly hung up on stiffness ratings precisely because it's not clear (even within a single manufacturer's line) what these numbers translate to in practice.
 

FigureSkater2625

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 27, 2020
Country
United-States
Interesting that on their webpage, they say that you can "pre-order" the Elara (is it "Elara Vega" or are there two models - "Elara" and "Vega"?). Why in the world would you pre-order something you can't try on? They haven't yet added it to the page displaying their boot lineup, so not sure where this falls in terms of stiffness and other features.

I know this has nothing to do with fit/performance (which are the most important things) but I think they are really ugly (like Edea's ugly step-sister).

“Edea’s ugly step-sister.” I just looked to see what those boots look like and your comment got a laugh out of me. I agree with you there, they look like something that came off of the Edea Ice Fly’s drawing board. [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Golden Skate
 
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