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Thread: Should there be adult scoring for high lvl FS tests?

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    On the Ice Arwen17's Avatar
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    Should there be adult scoring for high lvl FS tests?

    **Note: this is just what I currently think after examining all of the data. If you have other ideas, please share!

    Do you think there should be adult scoring for the Interm-Senior FS tests? Why or why not?


    It really feels like they just want adult skaters to get to Senior MIF and Adult Gold Freeskate ONLY, because that's where you can be scored on the tests as an Adult skater. Once you reach the Intermediate FS test, they score you as a kid, not an adult. That seems really unfair, especially since they've been "going easy on you" up until Adult Gold and Senior MIF. I feel like there's going to be a massive skill quality gap between Adult Gold FS and Intermediate FS because adults weren't being prepared for being scored as a kid on Intermediate and higher FS tests. Why don't they continue Adult scoring for the Intermediate-Senior FS tests, just like they do for the Intermediate-Senior MIF tests? I don't understand why high lvl MIF gets special adult treatment, but FS doesn't.
    I was also watching the Adult Championships on youtube from last year. I think a TON of the people who participate in the Interm-Novice and Jr-Sr adult championship competition are probably grandfathered in from where they passed the equivalent tests as kids. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think a lot of them would pass the Intermediate-Senior FS tests if they had to take them right now. What do you think? Do you know any adults who have passed Interm-Senior FS tests? How old were they when they passed and did they start skating as adults or have a ton of previous experience as a kid?
    *Extra bonus: I enjoy seeing the names of people who pass Senior MIF - Adult and Adult Gold FS etc listed on the website and in the magazine because it shows you someone age 21+ just passed the test. With the Interm-Senior FS tests, you have NO IDEA who passed the test. It's probably a teenager and there's no recognition of age 21+ passing the test. Which is what feeds my imagination that it isn't possible to pass as an adult, since I don't see the adults listed separately when they pass those tests.


    I just passed Adult Gold MIF (in only two years of skating as an adult, only 1 year as a child that only got me thru LTS) and I'm currently working on Intermediate MIF (adult candidate). I've always been confident I can get to Senior MIF eventually because I get to be scored as an adult. It gives me that extra boost of confidence and cushion to know they won't expect me to be quite as good as the 13 year olds who have been skating since they were 5.
    I'm still working hard on getting my axel fully rotated so I can pass Adult Gold FS too. But I am nervous and frightened by the fact that Interm-Senior FS tests have no "cushion", no adult scoring of any kind in place. I think it's really bad because if you look at the minimum skills required for the adult competition levels (Interm-Senior), they are NOT as rigorous or difficult as the FS tests! WHY are the FS tests harder than the Adult competition requirements? It's supposed to be the other way around! The FS test should be easier, while the skills required to win a competition should be harder!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Arwen17 View Post
    **Note: this is just what I currently think after examining all of the data. If you have other ideas, please share!

    Do you think there should be adult scoring for the Interm-Senior FS tests? Why or why not?


    It really feels like they just want adult skaters to get to Senior MIF and Adult Gold Freeskate ONLY, because that's where you can be scored on the tests as an Adult skater. Once you reach the Intermediate FS test, they score you as a kid, not an adult. That seems really unfair, especially since they've been "going easy on you" up until Adult Gold and Senior MIF. I feel like there's going to be a massive skill quality gap between Adult Gold FS and Intermediate FS because adults weren't being prepared for being scored as a kid on Intermediate and higher FS tests. Why don't they continue Adult scoring for the Intermediate-Senior FS tests, just like they do for the Intermediate-Senior MIF tests? I don't understand why high lvl MIF gets special adult treatment, but FS doesn't.
    I was also watching the Adult Championships on youtube from last year. I think a TON of the people who participate in the Interm-Novice and Jr-Sr adult championship competition are probably grandfathered in from where they passed the equivalent tests as kids. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think a lot of them would pass the Intermediate-Senior FS tests if they had to take them right now. What do you think? Do you know any adults who have passed Interm-Senior FS tests? How old were they when they passed and did they start skating as adults or have a ton of previous experience as a kid?
    *Extra bonus: I enjoy seeing the names of people who pass Senior MIF - Adult and Adult Gold FS etc listed on the website and in the magazine because it shows you someone age 21+ just passed the test. With the Interm-Senior FS tests, you have NO IDEA who passed the test. It's probably a teenager and there's no recognition of age 21+ passing the test. Which is what feeds my imagination that it isn't possible to pass as an adult, since I don't see the adults listed separately when they pass those tests.


    I just passed Adult Gold MIF (in only two years of skating as an adult, only 1 year as a child that only got me thru LTS) and I'm currently working on Intermediate MIF (adult candidate). I've always been confident I can get to Senior MIF eventually because I get to be scored as an adult. It gives me that extra boost of confidence and cushion to know they won't expect me to be quite as good as the 13 year olds who have been skating since they were 5.
    I'm still working hard on getting my axel fully rotated so I can pass Adult Gold FS too. But I am nervous and frightened by the fact that Interm-Senior FS tests have no "cushion", no adult scoring of any kind in place. I think it's really bad because if you look at the minimum skills required for the adult competition levels (Interm-Senior), they are NOT as rigorous or difficult as the FS tests! WHY are the FS tests harder than the Adult competition requirements? It's supposed to be the other way around! The FS test should be easier, while the skills required to win a competition should be harder!

    There are two women at my rink who have passed the intermediate FS and compete at that level and only started skating as adults. The tests aren't graded that hard. Also, to be competitive at that level, your spin positions, jumps, and footword do need to be at that level. It's not impossible at all.

    Edit to add: https://www.usfigureskating.org/cont...ts%20Final.pdf

    The excel intermediate test has the same requirements as the Masters Intermediate-Novice Competition programs.

    Whoops linked the program. I don't want to link the Rulebook, but if you look at page 192 it has the well balanced free skate test requirements and it lines up with the Excel Intermediate and the Adult Masters Intermediate-Novice programs. If you tested your program, it would hit all requirements.

    To pass the Junior Well Balanced test you only need a double flip, an axel, any double jump combination, and then one other jump which can be a single. So you could do dbl sal, dlb toe combo and then a single lutz and pass.

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    'I sing a tango that nobody ever sang and I dream' Ic3Rabbit's Avatar
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    No.

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    No, but I won't go into all my reasoning!

    Arwin17 - Congrats on passing your gold MITF! I am envious.
    I passed my Adult Gold free skate before one had to pass the MIF first. So I'm backtracking and am now on Adult Silver moves.
    Good luck on your future endeavors of passing the Adult Gold free skate and other tests.

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    Tripping on the Podium
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    No, because FS tests standard are pretty 'easy' compared to MIF test already. Dance and Moves are much more strict at standard level than FS. By the time you have passed your high level moves, even as an adult, and once you can do the FS elements (I've seen people pass with < jumps), the standard FS test would be a breeze.

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    On the Ice Arwen17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nimyue View Post
    There are two women at my rink who have passed the intermediate FS and compete at that level and only started skating as adults. The tests aren't graded that hard. Also, to be competitive at that level, your spin positions, jumps, and footword do need to be at that level. It's not impossible at all.

    Edit to add: https://www.usfigureskating.org/cont...ts%20Final.pdf

    The excel intermediate test has the same requirements as the Masters Intermediate-Novice Competition programs.

    Whoops linked the program. I don't want to link the Rulebook, but if you look at page 192 it has the well balanced free skate test requirements and it lines up with the Excel Intermediate and the Adult Masters Intermediate-Novice programs. If you tested your program, it would hit all requirements.

    To pass the Junior Well Balanced test you only need a double flip, an axel, any double jump combination, and then one other jump which can be a single. So you could do dbl sal, dlb toe combo and then a single lutz and pass.

    That’s great news to hear of some adults passing a higher FS test!!!
    But don’t you think it would be nice if the adult tests were still somehow marked as adult? Because like I said, seeing those tests passed by people I know are 21 or older is really encouraging. You can’t see that with Interm-Senior FS tests. So you’re left wondering if any adults ever pass at all.
    I guess the simplest solution would be if USFSA would publish a yearly count or something in regards to age. But doubt they will.
    Still, it makes it more special to see those tests marked by a gold star or something in the magazine or test list. Just to say “hey this wasn’t yet another teen. This was an adult!”

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    On the Ice Arwen17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jf12 View Post
    No, because FS tests standard are pretty 'easy' compared to MIF test already. Dance and Moves are much more strict at standard level than FS. By the time you have passed your high level moves, even as an adult, and once you can do the FS elements (I've seen people pass with < jumps), the standard FS test would be a breeze.

    Oh ok, that sounds a lot better. I was terrified they expected perfection on the FS tests since the judging on the higher MIF tests is very strict.

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    in Emergency Backup Mode karne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arwen17 View Post
    That’s great news to hear of some adults passing a higher FS test!!!
    But don’t you think it would be nice if the adult tests were still somehow marked as adult? Because like I said, seeing those tests passed by people I know are 21 or older is really encouraging. You can’t see that with Interm-Senior FS tests. So you’re left wondering if any adults ever pass at all.
    I think you're lucky you have an Adult passing standard at any level.

    There are no separate Adult tests in Australia and no Adult passing standard. At any level. Not even Preliminary.

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    On the Ice Arwen17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    I think you're lucky you have an Adult passing standard at any level.

    There are no separate Adult tests in Australia and no Adult passing standard. At any level. Not even Preliminary.
    I think I could pass standard, it would probably just take twice as long. I think one judge accidentally judged me by the kid standard for my Adult Gold MIF because two of the judges were 1 point away from passing me with honors, while the third judge just gave me passing “0” for all exercises, except two. The two she failed me on are the same exercises I will be repeating on the intermediate test anyway. So I really think she accidentally forgot which test she was doing and judged me by the kid’s standard. First time any judge has ever failed me on any test. I usually pass and pass well. But it’s comforting to know that if I absolutely had to, I could survive at standard, even tho it would take longer. I’m under a ticking time limit. I’m not getting any younger. So I want to learn as much as possible in the least amount of time.

    Oh and adult level isn’t THAT much of a cushion. You just get judged by one standard below. AKA if you were testing juvenile, they’ll grade you like a pre-juve etc. So you’re more like a junior when you reach senior, but that’s still nothing to sneeze at.

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    Tripping on the Podium
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    Congrats on passing gold! For that one judge you never know if they might be super tough on kids too. But it’s true that many judges have different ideas as to what adult standard is - some are super supportive and generous, others hardly give any cushion. Most common is that they are just as picky on edge quality and key points of the move, but more lenient on power, at least when the key point of the move is not power. If you look young it can be even tougher. My advice especially for young looking adult skaters taking adult MIF tests is go for the test when your better run throughs pass standard, that way you won’t be as dependant on different judging opinions. It still should be a significant time saver than taking standard, for which you would be making sure you could pass standard in your sleep.

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    On the Ice Arwen17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jf12 View Post
    Congrats on passing gold! For that one judge you never know if they might be super tough on kids too. But it’s true that many judges have different ideas as to what adult standard is - some are super supportive and generous, others hardly give any cushion. Most common is that they are just as picky on edge quality and key points of the move, but more lenient on power, at least when the key point of the move is not power. If you look young it can be even tougher. My advice especially for young looking adult skaters taking adult MIF tests is go for the test when your better run throughs pass standard, that way you won’t be as dependant on different judging opinions. It still should be a significant time saver than taking standard, for which you would be making sure you could pass standard in your sleep.
    Thank you!
    The irony is that particular judge barely left any comments. The other judges (and all of the previous judges on all previous tests) have always written tons of praise and tons of things I should work to improve. (and I love these comments. Nothing is ever perfect. So I want to know what needs to be improved. Sometimes, I am a very bad student and don't want to believe what my coach is telling me haha. So having the judges say it too just confirms it for me that my coach is right and I am definitely wrong LOL.) It's kinda stinky to mark me so low on a test and not even leave hardly any tips about why you hated it so much. And yeah, I know my youthful appearance works against me. They probably do think I'm 21 (aka barely in the adult category) when I'm actually almost 30. Some judges probably don't realize I have almost a decade less of what they think I do to improve, since I'm not actually 21.
    There's also the possibility that since I usually test at my home club all the time, that certain judges have seen me multiple times and have seen how much I have improved in such a short span of time, so they're happy to shower me with points. While a new judge who's never seen me before, they have no reference point at all. Truthfully, I have no idea who judges me. The way I get thru tests is pretty much by pretending judges don't exist. If you asked me what gender they are or what they looked like, I'd be like "errrr.... they had faces?" I only look at the judges long enough to get 'the nod' to continue on to the next exercise and go right back to pretending they don't exist. I also don't look at my coach during tests. I think that would freak me out the most. The only person who can make me nervous, the only person whose opinion matters is my coach. (because I have to be accountable to somebody, ya know?) I could care less what anyone else thinks. I try to skate my best and obey my coach as best I can and nothing else matters. Test successes are a "natural result" of obeying my coach, instead of something I was getting nervous about and striving for. So far I've been very consistent in all my competition programs and tests without fail. But I don't really expect my 'perfect record' to remain when I finally manage to crack the axel and double jumps barrier. Other skaters fall constantly on those things in competition.

    My coach does train me and nitpick me as if I'm taking the standard test. That way we hopefully create a super-high chance of passing the adult test, but nothing is ever certain. Regardless, I do want it to be as good as possible (while still keeping in mind my ticking time limit of growing older every day.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arwen17 View Post
    *Extra bonus: I enjoy seeing the names of people who pass Senior MIF - Adult and Adult Gold FS etc listed on the website and in the magazine because it shows you someone age 21+ just passed the test. With the Interm-Senior FS tests, you have NO IDEA who passed the test.
    FWIW, I would never want to be listed separately. If and when I pass those tests, I want to be listed with everyone else who passed, no qualifiers for the nine people besides us who actually read those lists to look at and think they went easy on me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arwen17 View Post
    It's probably a teenager and there's no recognition of age 21+ passing the test. Which is what feeds my imagination that it isn't possible to pass as an adult, since I don't see the adults listed separately when they pass those tests.​
    Any one of those people could be any age at all. They could be 10 or 100. The only thing we can know for sure... is that every single one of them, no matter who they are or what their circumstances, skated well enough to pass.

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    Wakabond Forever Seren's Avatar
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    No. However I do think the expectations of what judges expect in a good intermediate freeskate test are likely a little different for a 12 year old versus a 40 year old.

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    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arwen17 View Post
    So far I've been very consistent in all my competition programs and tests without fail. But I don't really expect my 'perfect record' to remain when I finally manage to crack the axel and double jumps barrier. Other skaters fall constantly on those things in competition.
    You get 2 reskates for errors, including falls, on elements in a freestyle test, and they always tend to give them, unlike MIF where they almost never give a reskate.

  15. #15
    Bona Fide Member mskater93's Avatar
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    You can always do the complete and submit for FS tests. I know someone who passed Intermediate that way without an Axel or double jump at all, but her spins were level 4s and she got +goe on every jump she did do to hit the required tech and overall score expected. Btw, the requirements for Masters Intermediate/Novice do not directly align with the Intermediate test so if you go this route, you must compete standard track

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