Worlds: Ladies SP

Gabby and Evgenia were my favourites in the event! Can't wait to see their frees!

melgirl25 said:

If Rika, had done a 2A instead, what do you think her score could have been. Would it have been higher than Kaori's?

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I think it could have been ~ 74, 75.
70+ was already great considering she had an invalid element!

Also, I think Satoko should have been around 6th (if the PCS was higher).

Looking forward to the free skates!

Argh, was so busy updating video page that when it came time to watch DVR of last nights ladies on NBCSN, I deleted it instead -arghh!

Did I miss anything that i will miss if i only watched the ESP coverage from the links?

Casual said:

Awesome speed and flow (and beauty) vs. ugly and tight should have been rewarded.

It's not enough to jam-pack points-winning transitions into a program and win on paper - one should have to execute too, completely, beautifully, gracefully. Instead, unpolished ugliness is rewarded.

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I would hardly call Alina's 2A from a Charlotte Spiral "ugly and tight", or Alina's POTO program "unpolished ugliness". You can debate whether her 2A from difficult transition deserved higher GOE compared to Kaori's 2A, which I agree had awesome speed and flow. Though I am a fan of Alina and admittedly biased, I agree Kaori's 2A deserved higher GOE, and that her skating skills are in general superior to Alina's. However, your obvious bias against Alina in almost every post you write about her and your constant disparaging of her skating (along with your failure to note her many wonderful qualities and difficulty of her content) makes your opinion pretty much worthless, IMO.

Casual said:

Kaori's outstanding 2A was so much more impressive than Alina's - but still scored lower. Alina's mediocre 2A was similar to Satoko's (but was uglier to look at, due to posture) - but scored much higher. Etc.

Kaori: distance 3.2 m, height 0.36 m, landing speed 20.7 km/hr (and beautiful posture, extension, etc.) - GOE 1.1
Satoko: distance 2.18 m, height 0.34 m, landing speed 13.6 km/hr - GOE 0.9
Alina: distance 2.04m, height 0.38 m, landing speed 12.5 km/hr - GOE 1.13

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Kaori had 1.27 GOE for 2A: http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1819/wc2019/data0203.pdf
It seems to me that people no longer know what else to blame for Alina.

melgirl25 said:

If Rika, had done a 2A instead, what do you think her score could have been. Would it have been higher than Kaori's?

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Imho, not necessarily higher, but very close. It's 4.3 points for a 2A with +1.0 positive goe and probably higher pcs.

70.90 + 4.30 for 2a + 1.00 pcs = 76.30

silveruskate said:

It doesn't make sense that you failed to mention Alina's difficult entry into her 2A which was a Charlotte going into a 3-turn.... going as far as comparing with Satoko. But I agree Kaori's 2A deserved more.

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Yes, Alina's entry was outstanding and beautiful too.

I have been reading a lot about unfair PCS, or „Eteri inflation“ and while the PCS often seem unfair, I think that people forget that they reflect the composition, the transitions and the SS as well, not just the performanxw and the music interpretation. So, I don‘t think that Eteri needs to bribe or bully the judges, because her team does a great job compositionwise. Alina‘s program is far more difficult than any other program without ultra elements (3A or quad). There is tons of one-foot skating, interesting and difficult transitions and choreo, etc. Tursynbaeva‘s program is also much better than in tbe past, hence, the higher PCSs. (Check Lilbet‘s Axel entry, for example). Often people say they hate the POTO music cuts or the program and that‘s ok, people have different tastes. But we have to acknowledge the difficulty, the boldness and the innovativeness in Eteri’s programs and how they are built to be the right vehicle for the specific skater. So, I think Alina and Elitabeth owe their PCS score largely to their programs and SS, not to a conspiracy. That doesn‘t change the fact that Satoko’s and Eunsoo‘s PCSs were too low indeed!

My problem with the PCS in general is that it reflects both the work of the team and the skater, but there is never a big difference between the components. As if there is never a great performer with a poor program and vice versa. They always put the scores in a close range, probably as a habit from the old system.

And one more point - since the BV of combinations is simply the sum of the BV of the jumps, how is a skater rewarded for taking the risk with a difficult combo, if not through the composition and SS components or GOEs? Why not make the lutz or the loop as a single jump with loong preparation time, if you get only the points for the separe jumps? If I am not mistaken, Alina was the only skater yesterday with this Lz+Lo and the risk should be rewarded.

What time tonight does the ladies fs begin? I’m on eastern time in the US.

Bluediamonds09 said:

What time tonight does the ladies fs begin? I’m on eastern time in the US.

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4:30 am I believe

voolfee said:

Kaori had 1.27 GOE for 2A: http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1819/wc2019/data0203.pdf
It seems to me that people no longer know what else to blame for Alina.

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Same old same old. They have only 2 states: to say that Alina is done when she has a bad day or to say that she is overscored when she has a good day. The only question that I have is where are a couple of usual suspects who have not said anything yet? Being quiet until the free program, I guess, to proclaim one of the two possible variants. I am sure that no one will openly admit that they are waiting for Alina's collapse and Rika's traditional redemption, but... Well, anything is possible but I hope that Alina has found her mojo when it matters most.

Realistically, Alina delivered the best performance of the night - the most difficult jumps, crazy transitions, high quality spins, always being with the story she was telling.

Kaori was very good - no doubt. She showed light, smooth and yet powerful skating with a masterpiece in her 3Lo. But her jump content was weaker, her spins are worse, and transitions are not as difficult.

Lizbet was flying like a feather. She intepreted Moon Sonata perfectly - I was with her skating from the very first second and the program time flew in no time at all. And she was clean with a beautiful rippon lutz. I understand that it is a conspiracy theory from my part that Eteri went personal there. I just see in today's Tursynbaeva yesterday's Medvedeva. And yesterday's Medvedeva was scored quite well - we all know that.

Evgenya although different now delivered a powerful performance. She was deep in the story, she was with her character having shown the emotions I could not but believe.

Who wuzzrobbed according to some?

Satoko? With all due respect I cannot see how her this year program is different from the last year one or the year before the last. Whatever good qualities she has for me they are cancelled by the ultimate boredom I feel while watching her. And it's not because it is Japan. Kaori, Wakaba, Rika Hongo, Marin Honda had and have distinctive programs sometimes masterpieces (James Bond). Not with Satoko. I understand that this is just my personal opinion. But that's a part of the rationale I see in her pcs score being at the level it is (not low by any means). Don't attack me - people have the right to say that they are bored. For me the best program of the last season was Alina's DQ - I rewatched it about a 100 times. But some people said they had a "bathroom break". Different cultures, what can I say?

Sofia? She was skating between Elizabeth and Kaori. Both I and my wife agreed that she was pale versus those two. Bland, pedestrian - I can't pick the right word. She was scored lower than the Europeans? Well,the competition was different. I am rooting for the Russian skaters per se - it's clear. But I can't say that Sofia deserved more than she got when she did not.

Mariah? Similar overall impression to Sofia. She is good but she is lacking it factor. In her SP she delivered but I felt little connection.

Eusoon? May be. I enjoy her skating this season. Such a progress. I would not place her above any of the top 4, though. She does not have most difficult transition and she needs to work on getting to people's emotions rather than minds. But she is on the right track and she is still young. Well, may be 1 extra point in pcs would be fair, may be

Who else was lowballed vs. Alina and other 3 top ladies?

What is all this about Alina's axel?

Alina got +1.13 GOE, which means 3 judges gave her +4 and 4 gave her +3. Now let's look at the bullets:

Bullet 1: Notice that ISU does not require "very good" to mean "greater height and length than all the other skaters at the competition" Alina's height and distance were very good, so she gets this.

Bullet 2: She has good speed going into the jump and a landing that flows into the transition, so she gets good take off and landing.

Bullet 3: Effortless throughout, I would give her this, especially when you consider the next bullet,

Bullet 4: She does Charlotte to back counter entrance, so Alina gets this bullet for unexpected and creative entry.

I don't think casual viewers understand how hard this entrance is. Back counter is the most difficult entrance into the axel. Alina's entrance requires her to change both direction and curve, while staying on the same foot, as she enters the jump. In addition, Alina does a Charlotte into the counter, so she is staying on the same foot even longer. Making the jump look as good as she does is beyond amazing.

No other lady has such a difficult entrance into their axel. Most have a change of foot in their entrance to the axel, like the two ladies jumping 3A right now. In men's, the only one I can think of who does a back counter entrance is Yuzuru Hanyu.

There are 2 more bullets, but these 4 bullets justify Alina's GOE by themselves.

Seruleane said:

I would hardly call Alina's 2A from a Charlotte Spiral "ugly and tight", or Alina's POTO program "unpolished ugliness". You can debate whether her 2A from difficult transition deserved higher GOE compared to Kaori's 2A, which I agree had awesome speed and flow. Though I am a fan of Alina and admittedly biased, I agree Kaori's 2A deserved higher GOE, and that her skating skills are in general superior to Alina's. However, your obvious bias against Alina in almost every post you write about her and your constant disparaging of her skating (along with your failure to note her many wonderful qualities and difficulty of her content) makes your opinion pretty much worthless, IMO.

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You're free to your opinion... as I am to mine. Yes, I find Alina's performances over-scored and over-hyped, and do not enjoy her. (That being said, I also don't like PCS/GOE inflation or deflation in general, whenever it happens - doesn't matter which skater or which discipline. PCS & GOE manipulation is a stain on the sport, IMHO.)

However, personal preferences aside, do you honestly think that Alina would have been able to jump as well as Kaori, even if she didn't enter from a Charlotte Spiral? Nope. :noshake:

zenskate said:

Making the jump look as good as she does is beyond amazing.

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But it didn't look that good, comparatively speaking, because it didn't look "effortless" (compared to others who were scored lower).

Autumn Leaves said:

And one more point - since the BV of combinations is simply the sum of the BV of the jumps, how is a skater rewarded for taking the risk with a difficult combo, if not through the composition and SS components or GOEs? Why not make the lutz or the loop as a single jump with loong preparation time, if you get only the points for the separe jumps? If I am not mistaken, Alina was the only skater yesterday with this Lz+Lo and the risk should be rewarded.

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Agree that the difficulty of the 2nd jumps in combos is not adequately addressed by the scoring system (and that it is infuriating), but I don't think it's appropriate for judges to make up for it by inflating other scores that are only tangentially related.

thegreendestiny said:

You are conveniently forgetting how difficult Alina's 2A entry is. Try doing a backward Charlotte Spiral without putting your free leg down then lounge to an axel jump. Of course you will get better distance and height if you have a regular entry.

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Is that an elegant, to the music Charlotte though? Can’t blame people for forgetting an utterly forgettable move.

silveruskate said:

It doesn't make sense that you failed to mention Alina's difficult entry into her 2A which was a Charlotte going into a 3-turn.... going as far as comparing with Satoko. But I agree Kaori's 2A deserved more.

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Thank you. Those height and distance things are short sighted as they don't take into account the tons of other variables that affect the quality of jumps.

Bcash said:

Is that an elegant, to the music Charlotte though? Can’t blame people for forgetting an utterly forgettable move.

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Well that depends - are you a fan of the skater because then it is nuanced to the music... If you're not a fan then it's probably not to the music.

As you can see, people need to be aware of ISU rules before they make ridiculous claims. At the same time, they should at least KNOW how to skate to understand the difficulty of each movement.

Watching and actually knowing how they are performed makes a huge difference assessing.

I read through the men's thread looking specifically at remarks re. Jason. Praises and very emotional praises. Well, he deserves good words even though he does not risk. His only risky jump is 3A. He landed it and received +2.51 GOE Did anyone pick the length of his jump for such a GOE? 2.35 m. 7 out of 11 ladies in the last 2 groups had a longer 2A including Medvedeva "famous" for her axel. Where are those angry people who wrote multiple posts about Alina's getting +1.13 GOE for her 2A? It's amazing how "impartial" some people here are.