ISU Statement on Bell and Lim

moonvine · Mar 21, 2019

sk8ath said:
It seems there will be a statement from Eunsoo's side after FS.

It would be nice if the official complaint had happened after the FS. What harm would it have done to wait a couple of days? It makes me think something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

moonvine · Mar 21, 2019

draqq said:
The trouble is that it's hard to prove that an allegation is fake. All the ISU investigation can say in Mariah's defense would be that they find no evidence of maleficence or bullying, but for those who already believe the allegation will just claim that the ISU wasn't thorough enough and/or that Bell just got away it and/or she's still a #racist and/or Rafael is a terrible coach for allowing this to continue, etc. etc. That said, Eunsoo firing the agency if the allegations are false would help ease the tensions, one would hope.

Unfortunately that's human nature. People believe what they want to believe and if they believe Mariah is innocent, they would believe she didn't do it. If they believe she is guilty, then they will do as you said. It's the court of public opinion and it sucks.

rikaquegira · Mar 21, 2019

this article states that

KSU relayed that USFSA sent their apologies regarding eunsoo’s injury, and that they’ll do their best to support eunsoo finish the competition. on march 21st, KSU released their official statement about eunsoo lim’s leg injury that happened during the ladies practice (20th) during the 2019 worlds figure skating championships.

KSU: “as reported, the collision during practice was witnessed by an all that sports(eunsoo’s management company) official and the KSU trainer. all that sports informed us that they will release the news to the press since the incident seems intentional considering past events.”

“while providing first aid to the athlete[eunsoo] through the KSU trainer on the site, following eunsoo’s wish to file an official complaint to USFSA through KSU, the team leader on site relayed the message to the ISU coordinator."
"to file a complaint between federations, sufficient evidence is required to deem the incident intentional so we began collecting material including video footage from the practice session and witness statements.”
they explained that “the ISU held a meeting in the morning/afternoon with officials from both federations regarding the collision between eunsoo and mariah on the 20th.”
according to KSU, during the meeting a USFSA official stated that mariah bell had no intention of the collision, and that they would like to extend an apology since she[bell] could not do so because her program music had started.

KSU stated that they "sent the information to eunsoo’s and eunsoo expressed that she will accept[the apology] through her agency." however, since eunsoo and mariah both have the free skate on the 22nd, they agreed to a meeting after the free skate ends.

“we are thankful to everyone who worried about eunsoo regarding her injury, and we will give her and team korea endless support to make sure they get through the competition.

*translated by someone on twitter

moonvine · Mar 21, 2019

Plisskin said:
It's on the Washington Post now and KFed says they can't tell if Mariah did it on purpose from the video:
: https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...petitor/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.89208f4243b4

“At this stage, we can’t conclude Bell caused the injury on purpose,” a Korea Skating Union official said, adding that Lim’s parents also mentioned the incident to the ISU. “It is hard to tell just by watching the video footage of the incident.”

If it is hard to tell by watching video footage, how on earth is an investigating body going to tell? What on earth?

moonvine · Mar 21, 2019

evasorange said:
Raf has had no problem calling out his American skaters before. After the Olympics last year he publicly scolded Nathan and his family in an interview. And I’m pretty sure he flat out called Ashley lazy once lol. I don’t think he takes any bull from anyone, American or not.

I would not call that "taking no bull." I"d call it extremely inappropriate.

hanyuufan5 · Mar 21, 2019

Can someone please just lock this thread until we have statements from Eunsoo and Mariah? This topic is especially prone to misinformed speculation given that we have people who might not ever have skated in their lives trying to imagine how skating accidents can or cannot happen.

readernick · Mar 21, 2019

If you look at the start of Mariah's SP you can see at the very beginning of her program she is quite close to the boards and as part of her choreography, she extends her leg. It would have been completely possible for the edge of her blade to hit Eunsoo and cause damage (those blades are sharp) and for her not to be aware of it. Of course, she should have been more careful but honestly if you are doing a program runthrough it is expected that other skaters are responsible for getting out of the way. Unfortunately, collisions do occur far to often even among very mature skaters as we saw before the pairs short program. Honestly, the injury could have been far worse. I hope all involved are healthy and are able to mend their relationships.

Plisskin · Mar 21, 2019

rikaquegira said:
this article states that

*translated by someone on twitter

It sounds like they didn't even make Mariah aware or even give her a chance to apologize before running to the press and escalating this.

evasorange · Mar 21, 2019

moonvine said:
I would not call that "taking no bull." I"d call it extremely inappropriate.

Hey I never said I agreed with it lol! Just that I don’t think he has any problem publicly scolding his skaters if he feels they are in the wrong no matter what country they are from, because the poster I was responding to said that Raf would always side with Americans

jaylee · Mar 21, 2019

bigsisjiejie said:
You need to understand that by universal custom in the skating world, the skater whose music is playing and doing a run-through has absolute, 100% right of way and everyone else on the ice must yield and stay out of the way. That means in the middle, in the corners, by the boards, or anywhere on the ice where the program skater may skate. It was Eunsoo's responsibility to stay aware of this and keep clear. For whatever reason she didn't--and I'm inclined to think charitably that Eunsoo just momentarily wasn't paying attention and got mentally focused elsewhere--it happens frequently with skaters especially at high-stakes competitions.

Eunsoo was clearly out of the way, just as many skaters are during someone else's run-through. I have no idea why you are laying all the responsibility on Eunsoo. The skater doing the run-throughs has the right of way, but they are still responsible for avoiding stationary skaters at the edge - especially the ones in front of them. It's not 100% on the other skaters.

There are plenty of videos of skater run-throughs from the Olympics and other major competitions, and Eunsoo was not doing anything different from any of them.

Colonel Green · Mar 21, 2019

rikaquegira said:
this article states that

*translated by someone on twitter

Honestly, this just raises more questions for me.

In particular, even if the ATS stuff about bullying isn’t true (and that would just raise where all that came from), that Eunsoo apparently sincerely felt that Mariah’s action was deliberate makes Raf’s operation look super dysfunctional, because that seems like it could only come from a total lack of trust and communication between the skaters.

sx98423 · Mar 21, 2019

Plisskin said:
It sounds like they didn't even make Mariah aware or even give her a chance to apologize before running to the press and escalating this.

She could've apologized right after the incident and she didn't. Regardless of whether the accusations are true or not it made me like her a lot less. Who cuts up someone's leg accidently and just skates away :noshake:

s_parks · Mar 21, 2019

Well, pretty expected official responses in regards to the practice incident. I assume the feds will discuss the alleged bullying when they meet post-FS? I mean, that was a pretty serious accusation to make, and publicly at that. Whichever side was actually in the wrong there, I'll be surprised if it just ends with talking it out.

eaglehelang · Mar 21, 2019

readernick said:
It is really a sad incident. I really can't imagine that either of these girls have evil intent. (I can't say for sure, of course) They both seem so sweet and I love both of them. They both skate with such heart. This is just a horrible distraction for both of them. A similar thing happened when Dennis Ten and Yuzuru Hanyu almost collided in 2016. (after all they did collide in 2014)People were claiming it was intentional. I think it is highly unlikely that a skater would do this intentionally but if someone hits you and causes you harm right before the most important competition of the year, even by accident, you may feel a short-term animosity toward them. I just hope that the people around Eunsoo are not trying to capitalize on this problem. Rafael has already stated that he was not aware of any bullying going on at the rink. He is someone who should know but it is possible that cultural misunderstanding and bad communication caused a less than ideal relationship which could cause very negative emotions if an accident occured.

The collision in 2014 was between Yuzuru & China's Han Yan. The 2016 case, ATS was also representing Denis Ten at the time. I did not like the aggressive tone ATS used in addressing the Denis Ten issue.
I dont like the tone ATS is using now too with Ensoo's case.

Its not racism, I'm Asian residing in Asia. I shake my head at the way ATS is handling it

draqq · Mar 21, 2019

skaterr said:
Rafael is living in America now. I think he has a strong connection toward US fed. Rafael never shows his preference for Eunsoo. He even hadn’t visited Korea as a coach of Eunsoo when she has a competition in Korea.

Except that he does have preference in that he chose to coach Eunsoo (and her choosing Rafael) despite the two being halfway across the world. Rafael also has, what, 8+ students at his rink? If I have to choose between going to one of Korea's many internal competitions or going to support another skater who has a Nationals, ISU event, or another international event, I wouldn't be surprised if he goes to those instead.

century2009 · Mar 21, 2019

jaylee said:
Eunsoo was clearly out of the way, just as many skaters are during someone else's run-through. I have no idea why you are laying all the responsibility on Eunsoo. The skater doing the run-throughs has the right of way, but they are still responsible for avoiding stationary skaters at the edge - especially the ones in front of them. It's not 100% on the other skaters.

There are plenty of videos of skater run-throughs from the Olympics and other major competitions, and Eunsoo was not doing anything different from any of them.

If she was clearly out of the way, she would not ha e been it.

It is really is Eunsoo's wrong.

Bell has 100% right of way with her allotted time for her music (like Eunsoo for hers). All skaters must yield away from the main skater during her music. Bell didn't mean to hit her of course, and didnt notice as she was focus on her run through. It feels like Eunsoo didnt notice and was too close to her during a moment of Bells program.

But Eunsoo was in the way and should have not been close to the skater with the 100% right of way. This is a very common old rule in figure skating during official practice.

Mathman · Mar 21, 2019

Colonel Green said:
... Eunsoo apparently sincerely felt that Mariah’s action was deliberate ...

Did she? It is not at all clear, to me, what Eun-soo thought or thinks. (Not from what has been reported, anyway.)

Plisskin · Mar 21, 2019

sx98423 said:
She could've apologized right after the incident and she didn't. Regardless of whether the accusations are true or not it made me like her a lot less. Who cuts up someone's leg accidently and just skates away :noshake:

Except from the article from Daum per USFSA spokesperson they said Mariah didn't even know Eunsoo was injured.

I still like both skaters. I find their skating lyrical and lovely. :shrug:

hanyuufan5 · Mar 21, 2019

sx98423 said:
She could've apologized right after the incident and she didn't. Regardless of whether the accusations are true or not it made me like her a lot less. Who cuts up someone's leg accidently and just skates away :noshake:

Not if she didn't know and no one told her.

I'm not saying that is or isn't what happened, but as I said earlier in the thread, I got cut with a skate blade, and I didn't even know, let alone whoever cut me! (Unless I did it to myself. I still don't know and probably never will, because I never saw or felt anything, nor did anyone else.)

Plisskin said:
I still like both skaters. I find their skating lyrical and lovely.

:agree:

If one of them did turn out to wrong the other, then I won't like her actions, but I'll still like her skating.

readernick · Mar 21, 2019

eaglehelang said:
The collision in 2014 was between Yuzuru & China's Han Yan. The 2016 case, ATS was also representing Denis Ten at the time. I did not like the aggressive tone ATS used in addressing the Denis Ten issue.
I dont like the tone ATS is using now too with Ensoo's case.

Its not racism, I'm Asian residing in Asia. I shake my head at the way ATS is handling it

You are right. I am sorry. My memory is faulty. Yes, I really don't like this agency's tone. Accidents happen, sadely. Now, the claims of bullying are more serious in my opinion. Either the agency is making this up, which is terrible. Or, a 16 year old girl is being harassed which is also terrible. Honestly, this whole situation is horrible.

ISU Statement on Bell and Lim

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