Worlds: Mens SP

I really liked the press conference, it was very nice comment by Nathan about Pooh and I thank Jason for liking my country as always. And it was amazing to see Yuzuru was being Yuzuru, still such a competitor after all these years.

There are three things I know to be sure of in life-I will die someday, I must pay taxes to the government, and no matter what Nathan Chen does in his programs he will be accused of no artistry and too high of pcs. This ain’t the 2016 Nathan Chen folks. He has become a true individual out there on ice, jumps so fast and able to command the audiences attention with just a shoulder shimmy. His landings weren’t as steady today as they were at nationals but stacked up against the other big guys did today? Yeah he was the clear winner. And what a treat it was to see fellow American Jason Brown in second!!! If I could have anything from these worlds it would be that he keeps together enough in the long to stay on the podium! He was pristine and crisp and just beautiful out there. Gosh Just looking at these two and how far they’ve come in regards to performing and maturing and it makes me so thankful that unlike the ladies, in the men’s discipline longevity is alive and well.

evasorange said:

There are three things I know to be sure of in life-I will die someday, I must pay taxes to the government, and no matter what Nathan Chen does in his programs he will be accused of no artistry and too high of pcs. This ain’t the 2016 Nathan Chen folks. He has become a true individual out there on ice, jumps so fast and able to command the audiences attention with just a shoulder shimmy. His landings weren’t as steady today as they were at nationals but stacked up against the other big guys did today? Yeah he was the clear winner. And what a treat it was to see fellow American Jason Brown in second!!! If I could have anything from these worlds it would be that he keeps together enough in the long to stay on the podium! He was pristine and crisp and just beautiful out there. Gosh Just looking at these two and how far they’ve come in regards to performing and maturing and it makes me so thankful that unlike the ladies, in the men’s discipline longevity is alive and well.

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Has Jason been practicing his quad sal in his run-throughs?

It was interesting to me that Nathan Chen got his highest GOEs on his step sequence and final two spins, rather than on jumps.

The competition was interesting. In the earlier groups, I loved watching Kevin Aymoz and Matteo Rizzo. Kevin is truly an artistic skater and Matteo has pristine jumps and elements.

The final group was a bit of a mess. Based on practice reports this week, I really thought Shoma was going to go clean. He is my favorite and I was sorry to see his struggles in the sp again. His step sequence is still my favorite element this season. But, I think his placement was fair considering his struggles with his jumps.

Yuzuru is, of course, GOAT but this was not his best performance. I was so sorry to see him double his 4S. But, he is determined and I think he will do well in the free.

Jason was beautiful. Every element was sublime! I mean +5+5+5 and +50 PCS I am so glad he did so well. His skating skills have always been wonderful but I think they have gotten even better this season. It was just as close to perfect as a program can be. This program is the reason I am glad +5/-5 exist. Figure skating has always been beautiful and I think many people (at least me) would rather see a beautiful program without quads then a program full of ugly quads and no performance. I am so glad he is in second place after the short. I don't think he will maintain this place after the free due to TES limitations. But, who knows? It is men's figure skating. Anything is possible.

I like Nathan's short program. Shaelynne Bourne is one of my top four choreographers. Is he at the same place artistically as Yuzuru, Jason, or even Shoma? Not in my opinion. But, he was definitely performing and the audience and the judges definitely responded. His jumps weren't pristine but his other elements we very good and he landed things. Even though I am American, I have never been a Nathan fan. But, he is winning me over. He is, obviously, the deserved leader.

The Russian men really struggled here. I love Kolyada. I keep hoping he will get it all together but I am starting to lose confidence.

I hope the free program is better than the short for the top group of men.

icybear said:

Harder content doesnt mean your artistry is better. He got 46 pcs with no transitions into or out of any of his jumps.

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I disagree.

3A - RFI-RBI rocker, mazurka, left foot cross-under step into a 3-turn, change foot (not a direct transition into the axel but definitely difficult steps transitioning into it); no exit transition (he does step into a spread eagle, though not directly into a spread eagle from the landing)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdQfB2UPjIo#t=34s

4Z - progressive, right foot crossing over left, left foot crossing under right, LFO-RBI choctaw to foot, left foot crossing over right foot, LBI-LFO change of edge before picking; on landing, mini-falling leaf to inside spread eagle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdQfB2UPjIo#t=50s

4T+3T - no entry transitions; exit change-of-edge/upper body movements while on the landing foot -- not to mention, he steps from his landing foot of a quad-triple directly into a flying spin (which is exceedingly difficult and risky... if you fall on the jumping pass, the flying spin doesn't end upon the music)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F58h8Ab9W0E&t=109s

Now, these definitely aren't great quality transitions, but it's not like there are NO transitions into or out of ANY of his jumps, as you're suggesting.

As much as people want to say PCS is distinct from tech content, that's simply not true. Everyone knows that harder technical content means the program as a whole is harder to execute, which makes every aspect of it that much more difficult. If Brown added a quad, he would deserve higher PCS than what was given because it means he has to still commit to the same choreography and quality of movements even though he's expending more energy. If a skater elected did all quads in a program, and the next time executed the choreo/interpretation the exact same but did only doubles, the PCS should be lower. Transitions (measured not just by quality but by difficulty) are also harder when they are into/out of harder jumps.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH JASON! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS! That's the nuanced commentary I'm giving right now.

Colonel Green said:

I think Rizzo wuzrobbed of a bronze small medal. Ridiculous to have him behind Zhou in PCS, and while it’s not unexpected given his reputation and where the contest is, Hanyu was scored rather generously.

Mr. Liza (or Lazukin, I guess we’ll call him, since he did well here) was also undermarked relative to how the judges scored his compatriots. I dare any judge to justify him being behind Kolyada and only a few points ahead of Samarin.

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100%. I get that Hanyu's a much better skater/choreo than Rizzo, and Zhou has harder tech content, but to me Hanyu's quad pop and Zhou's jump flaws + Rizzo's superior artistry to Zhou, should have put Rizzo ahead of each of them in 3rd after the SP.

DaNiCG said:

Hanyu didn't fall, he POP why are you saying he fell. His PCS shouldn't be affected that much with a popped jump, especially with the level of delivery he gave. But now that we are at it, and you keep nagging Hanyu pcs, why Chen got his close to Hanyu when Hanyu has lesser crossovers and more transitions (not mentioning better spins and step sequence) than Chen? better ss than Chen? why Brown has less PCS than Chen too?

"Harder content" (more like harder jumps btw) is not a criteria/bullet for PCS.

ETA: I mean as in harder jumps, ex. a skater having a 4lutz/4flip/4axel whatever shouldn't affect the PCS if it doesn't meet the criteria

........................

I liked the event. Hoping for a clean FS and redemption of some skaters, sad for Donovan I really like him. I have no problem with the placement either. Overall a nice competition.

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I didn't say that Hanyu fell, I said he popped. I was saying that if in the FS, Hanyu/Uno has a fall(s)/major error(s), and is awarded high PCS, e.g. 95, and then Chen skates (and he will be skating after them, according to the free skate order)... if Chen happens to go clean (having likely much harder technical content) like he did at US Nationals, then the judges might not have any choice BUT to award Chen with huge PCS scores (and it wouldn't matter anyways because if Chen goes clean tomorrow, he'll win without a doubt, even if the judges hold back his PCS).

To all those dismayed that Chen's PCS is so close to Hanyu's/Jason's, Hanyu essentially invalidated 1 of 3 jumping passes, which is a huge error (no matter how pretty that pop looked, lol) -- Hanyu's personal best PCS is 48.09... did people expect him to get the same PCS having turned a quad into a double/invalid element?

Comparing jumps, Chen essentially did a 4Z to Hanyu's 2S. And Chen did 2 quads to Jason doing no quads (though I still would have had Jason's PCS the highest).

Chen's the only one who successfully did 2 quads in the final group (a lutz being one of them), and did so skating last. And even still, his program was well performed with intricate choreo and personality. What did people think the judges were going to do after seeing that - give Chen PCS of 40 or something? Even so, he'd still be leading by a lot.

So proud Of Nathan!

Jasonnnnn yessssyesssyessssssss

Mathman said:

It was interesting to me that Nathan Chen got his highest GOEs on his step sequence and final two spins, rather than on jumps.

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This made sense. His jumps weren't as solid as they could have been. I'd say his 3A was a bit overscored (+3 was fine, +4 was too generous since it didn't look completely effortless on the landing). Same with the landing of the 3T on his combo (which was forward on the pick), and of course the lutz he had a balance check and decided the landing wasn't good enough to combo so he just rode the edge. For all his jumping passes I would have given a +3.

The flying sit had very good speed (although it took him a bit to get into the twisted sit position, but had plenty of rotation, I'd have given +4); the camel was better than he normally executes it (sometimes it looks a bit slow and lazy, and I wonder if he'll make the hop over but this had speed and attack), but it needed more centering (+3); the combo spin had good speed and positions, and a nice entrance, but could have used a little more centring (+4). The step sequence was, of course, awesome (+5).

Nathan's plan was 4T-3T in the second half - like at Nationals.

It turns out he's pretty much been sick since after Nationals! (flu, etc.)

Yuzuru Hanyu is the face of Figure Skating currently. He is the main attraction. He is the ticket draw and the seat filler. He did just fine after the long layoff. He is Japan's People's Honor and the global honor with many fans coming from all over the world to sit in at practice sessions. So yes Yuzu did just fine. I look for him to skate right into Beijing and WIN his history making 3rd OGM. All these skates are simply a building up to GOAT.

Note to self: Hyperbolic bait.

Jason! That is why we call it figure skating, what a prefect merge of choreo and skater.

Mesmerizing.

And as far as I’m concerned Nathan Chen should stay at Yale for the rest of his skating career. Learning to listen to himself and his own voice is the best thing that’s ever happened to him.:thumbsup:

Yuzuru... He looked too much in the battle mode today. Anyway he is also a human. It can happen. In the past when he missed in SP, he came back with superb FS. Let's hope it!

Nathan: He was having so much fun while skating and he was very confident. Nathan skated extraordinary today. I'm so proud of him, go get that gold medal! :hap36: :hap93:

Jason: To be honest, I didn't expect him to skate well but I'm glad he did. Jason is always a pleasure to watch.

Yuzuru: I didn't see that mistake coming at all, I was so sure that he'd skate amazing but sadly he was not perfect. The 3A was magnificent as usual. I hope he comes back strong in FS.

Kevin: He is a charming skater with such a unique artistry and brilliant program. I'm so happy for him.

Matteo: Words can't explain how much I'm proud of my prince! I literally cried after his performance. Bravo Matteo!

Worlds:Mens SP

Along with all praise for the top 3 skaters, I'd like to give a shout out to Keegan Messing and Nam Nguyen of Canada. Well done!

SNAKSuyun said:

Good to see the American men do well tonight, and Matteo Rizzo has earned a fan! I wonder if competitions like these will encourage more guys with good SS and artistry to pursue Jason's triples strategy, and if we might potentially start to see less harder quads (4Lo, 4Lz, 4F) in the younger/lower ranked men if they are not sure they'd be able to land them. The 4T and 4S seem here to stay for the entire field, and I doubt the top contenders are willing to give up their hard quads.

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The quadless "strategy' can work well in the short program for a skater like Jason when he is near perfect, but, for the long program it is a different story, too many points to make up. Jason is doing what he does well better than ever. I can't get over how the new hair cut has changed his look to the very good.