Worlds: Ladies FS

CanadianSkaterGuy · Mar 22, 2019

evasorange said:
PCS meting should be changed to Perfect Cheating System. It has almost no bearing on reality anymore. It’s used to boost skaters or hold them down. Alina is not almost ten points better then this field. I can’t take her hunched posture and frantic but somehow still slow movements that have no correlation to the music seriously as the best in the world. I can’t believe none of the Japanese ladies medal when they all are so strong and have such beautiful skating. I know I’ll never have the strength but sometimes I wish I could just quit women’s figure skating for good. It’s just a farce at this point.

The Japanese women are strong and have some of the best skating but they made errors. Had Kihira done a double axel in either the SP or FS she would have silver so it's not like she was far off from the medals. And Kaori had a stellar SP but the pop was a costly error (even still the judges gave her a PCS personal best over 5 points higher than her previous one) - resulting in a personal best FS for her by about 3 points -- like Kihira, a double flip would have likely won her silver so it's not like she was far off the medals. Now, Miyahara was the Japanese lady who legit got hosed on PCS but I also think they overlooked some underrotations for her and her GOE was super high considering her jumps aren't.

Zagitova had a stellar SP and while overscored in the FS she still definitely deserved gold. Tursynbaeva was amazing. Medvedeva is the only one you could argue should have been surpassed by Kihira/Sakamoto but she had an amazing SP+FS and those two had costly errors.

neusw · Mar 22, 2019

Interspectator said:
I also want to add the technical panel was VERY lenient for the entire last group. Lot's of iffy jumps with landings that were clearly UR got a pass.

I'm pretty sure the tech panel turned their screens off halfway through the 3rd group. Literally nothing was called except for things so blatantly obvious it couldn't be denied even by the naked eye.

GGFan · Mar 22, 2019

Congrats to the medalists! There is no doubt about their hard work and determination :clap:

There's a separate conversation (and this is not a critique of the skaters) to be had about the judges and the messages these panels are sending however. In pairs and ice dance when I see the PCS for Sui/Han or Papadakis/Cizeron I know that upon viewing the program I'll see some of the best skating skills, nuance, and interpretation of the music. Same in the men's for Yuzu. When I look at Alina's 9s it does not match the program.

What's the message being sent? That if you land a loop-lutz combo your PCS will go up? That if you add tons of transitions it will lift every PCS category? None of that makes sense. Hence, why I think the ladies PCS is the least related to reality. I do hope they have some offseason meetings and consider how they're judging PCS for the top skaters. :pray:

neusw · Mar 22, 2019

GGFan said:
Congrats to the medalists! There is no doubt about their hard work and determination

There's a separate conversation (and this is not a critique of the skaters) to be had about the judges and the messages these panels are sending however. In pairs and ice dance when I see the PCS for Sui/Han or Papadakis/Cizeron I know that upon viewing the program I'll see some of the best skating skills, nuance, and interpretation of the music. Same in the men's for Yuzu. When I look at Alina's 9s it does not match the program.

What's the message being sent? That if you land a loop-lutz combo your PCS will go up? That if you add tons of transitions it will lift every PCS category? None of that makes sense. Hence, why I think the ladies PCS is the least related to reality. I do hope they have some offseason meetings and consider how they're judging PCS for the top skaters.

Ohhh boy, you're in for a real fun surprise next year when the quadsters show up.....

GGFan · Mar 22, 2019

neusw said:
Ohhh boy, you're in for a real fun surprise next year when the quadsters show up.....

Don't confuse my hopes with my expectations. None of the scoring ruins my enjoyment of the sport ultimately because I focus on the performances. Quadsters winning won't make Kaori or Satoko's skating any less beautiful.

Interspectator · Mar 22, 2019

GGFan said:
Don't confuse my hopes with my expectations. None of the scoring ruins my enjoyment of the sport ultimately because I focus on the performances. Quadsters winning won't make Kaori or Satoko's skating any less beautiful.

I feel the same!

Also, if the tech score is going to be the ultimate decider and PCS will be assigned to whoever has the biggest tech, why is the panel so lenient on the calls? There was a lot of slackness in both the tech calling and the scoring of the PCS IMO that really made me mad.

--The skaters themselves, WOW! There were no disaster skates in the last 2 groups. Each woman brought everything they possibly could into their program. Some I enjoyed more than others, some skated better, jumped batter or had better programs. But everyone brought it.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Mar 22, 2019

P44 said:
Judges are not even japanese

The technical controller is.
And, of course, the venue is.

It's fine - every country has home ice inflation. The general consensus is that Japan is less prone to bias and home inflation for their skaters, but so far this Worlds isn't exactly upholding that. But at least the final results as far as placements go (in the ladies) is what it should be, IMO.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Mar 22, 2019

GGFan said:
Don't confuse my hopes with my expectations. None of the scoring ruins my enjoyment of the sport ultimately because I focus on the performances. Quadsters winning won't make Kaori or Satoko's skating any less beautiful.

Results are results but this is so true. Kaori still had a sublime SP and Miyahara's FS is a gem. Kaori also smashed her PB (okay maybe I disagree with the PCS in the FS but even lowered it would be a total score PB for her which is the way you want to close a season).

sk8ath · Mar 22, 2019

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Results are results but this is so true. Kaori still had a sublime SP and Miyahara's FS is a gem. Kaori also smashed her PB (okay maybe I disagree with the PCS in the FS but even lowered it would be a total score PB for her which is the way you want to close a season).

Kaori's PCS should reach 9s earlier, NOT only today.

Shanshani · Mar 22, 2019

Kaori deserves her jump GOE, she's got great distance, effortlessness, and outflow. She's not my favorite skater, but the quality of her jumps and the smoothness with which they're integrated into her program stands out, especially her loop.

The tech panel was pretty lenient today. Very few calls, despite there being some blatant URs and edge issues.

I agree the PCS judging was a mess. I'm really, really happy for Evgenia and was one of the few defending the decision to send her, but I thought it was pretty obvious that all three Japanese ladies had superior components compared to her, and compared to Alina too, though Alina obviously wins on transitions. Can't say it was a great performance from Alina--some of her jump landings were pretty tight, her posture bothered me, and i think her short suits her much better than her free--but I'm impressed with her ability to pull it together after her rocky season. Congratulations to Lilbet for landing the 4S!

And congrats to Eunsoo for earning two spots for Korea and improving upon her seasons best! It must not have been easy, considering the injury and the other stuff. Hope to see more great skating from her in the future!

SNAKSuyun · Mar 22, 2019

I suppose Kaori's sudden PCS jump looks suspect, but I'll come out and say I think that's the PCS she has always deserved (for a clean program, at least - I'm fine with shaving off some points for today since she popped and was generally pretty tight). Satoko, of course, should be right up there as well, and I'm heartbroken to see that she has seemingly been abandoned. (I think another part of this may be that they want to keep Kaori competitive for the years to come due to their acknowledgement of her potential while they've set their mind to abandon Satoko, which is... heartbreaking in another way.)

Regarding the argument that "the Japanese ladies blew their chance so it's their own fault," though. Of course they are to blame for their own mistakes. This, though, irks me because it means when other ladies' PCS remain constantly inflated, the Japanese ladies (as well as most other ladies) have to comparatively do so much better for them to shine. This is true, of course, everywhere - some skaters' scores and PCS will take ridiculous plunges for one small error while others' will get held up through bad programs as well as scratchy and bombing competitions. I suppose this is a part of why Sui/Han's victory felt so particularly personal to me yesterday - barring a completely perfect program, which they somehow miraculously delivered, they would have likely lost and people would probably have called it justified because they would have not been perfect. Yes, I think they could have lost over a single hiccup, even though nobody (except real life Sui/Han) was perfectly clean in Pairs last night. Yes, I think that's unfair, considering the similar levels of command the teams had over the tech, and the world of difference between their levels of artistic expression.

Roast Toast · Mar 22, 2019

You will never never convince me that Evgenia's tango deserved higher PCS than Satoko's. This was the first time there was a direct comparison between the two and just... no. Without even taking into account Medo's slow, labored turns in the step sequence, from an artistic viewpoint Satoko's program is on another level entirely both in composition and performance.

Very impressed by Lilbet here though. The free is a lot better than the short imo and she is just a completely new athlete when it comes to jumps. Happy for the season she's had.

Colonel Green · Mar 22, 2019

- Among the also-rans, I’ll begin by mentioning Alexandra Feigin of Bulgaria, who had the skate of her life early on in the competition.

- Gabrielle and Loena, in eleventh and twelfth, both had a lot of health issues that kept them from competing as they’d have liked to this season, but they rallied at the end to place well (and save a spot, in Gabby’s case) and get seeded for the Grand Prix next fall — especially important for Loena, being from a small fed.

- Eunsoo got Korea’s second spot back, and in the midst of a maelstrom, so good for her, though I fear she’s going to be changing coaches soon

- Very high level of performance at the top all around.

- Alina rallied after a lot of problems this season. Whatever’s to come, she got her World gold.

- Elizabet surely wins “most improved” for the season.

- Evgenia also had rough transitional year, but she closed it very well.

- Tough result for the Japanese ladies, in what is shaping up to be a very disappointing home Worlds for Japan.

andromache · Mar 22, 2019

Impressed by Alina's grit, though I dislike both programs and think she was overscored. A deserving world champion though. I'm interested to see what she does next season. This season has seemed very stressful, and it can't be fun for her to be training with the girls who are likely to surpass her. I just want her to be happy.

Lilibet was such a lovely surprise. Well-deserved silver here. I got a little teary-eyed last night watching a Denis Ten tribute on NBC - with everything he did to promote skating in Kazakhstan, I think it's fitting and important that she won silver here (which was also Denis's first Worlds medal). I hope her success is able to continue the work that Denis did. Her body type is well-suited to Eteri's technique as well. And the 4S!!!! Wow!

Zhenya is an inspiration. She's a grown woman reworking her technique, and she's had detractors all season. She's struggled. But she did this here. It's been a roller coaster. Can't wait to see how she looks next fall.

ETA: I think Kaori had my favorite performance of the night. Her edges are so sweeping and elegant. Her jumps are the class of the field. If she hadn't made that mistake, I would've had her as my #1 for Worlds champ.

GGFan · Mar 22, 2019

I just want to reemphasize that I have no beef with the skaters. I look at this from the perspective of a teacher. When I grade it is my duty to give my students an accurate picture of where they stand when assessing an assignment. Ultimately this is what helps them to improve and grow.

When the judges give scores that are hard to explain or understand it hurts the skaters and discourages those who are trying to improve.

evasorange · Mar 22, 2019

SNAKSuyun said:
I suppose Kaori's sudden PCS jump looks suspect, but I'll come out and say I think that's the PCS she has always deserved (for a clean program, at least - I'm fine with shaving off some points for today since she popped and was generally pretty tight). Satoko, of course, should be right up there as well, and I'm heartbroken to see that she has seemingly been abandoned. (I think another part of this may be that they want to keep Kaori competitive for the years to come due to their acknowledgement of her potential while they've set their mind to abandon Satoko, which is... heartbreaking in another way.)

Regarding the argument that "the Japanese ladies blew their chance so it's their own fault," though. Of course they are to blame for their own mistakes. This, though, irks me because it means when other ladies' PCS remain constantly inflated, the Japanese ladies (as well as most other ladies) have to comparatively do so much better for them to shine. This is true, of course, everywhere - some skaters' scores and PCS will take ridiculous plunges for one small error while others' will get held up through bad programs as well as scratchy and bombing competitions. I suppose this is a part of why Sui/Han's victory felt so particularly personal to me yesterday - barring a completely perfect program, which they somehow miraculously delivered, they would have likely lost and people would probably have called it justified because they would have not been perfect. Yes, I think they could have lost over a single hiccup, even though nobody (except real life Sui/Han) was perfectly clean in Pairs last night. Yes, I think that's unfair, considering the similar levels of command the teams had over the tech, and the world of difference between their levels of artistic expression.

YES! thank you for explain an issue I have much better then I ever could! It's why I can't take Alina seriously. Because she isn't scored based on reality. She's had quite a few messy free skates this season but I don't think her PCS has ever dipped below 70 which is just absurd and cannot be justified using their own criteria the isu set. Why have PCS if all you are going to do is abuse and use it incorrectly?

s_parks · Mar 22, 2019

Well the pcs was lol-worthy but not news at this point. Despite having fallen out of love with this discipline, good to see lots of great skates today. Satoko is divine, enough said. Good for Evgenia for putting it together after a tough season of big changes and a muscle strain before the fs. I'm sure Alina will have breathed a sigh of relief after that world title. And a big hug to eunsoo for finishing top 10 in her senior debut with the pressure and crazy ordeal this worlds.

ramed · Mar 22, 2019

coldblueeyes said:
I know she is?! But it's not like it simple and easy to transition--most likely this time easier than some, because she already knew how Eteri works. I have some qualms against Eteri, I won't lie, but when the skater can give the results under her tutelage, it shows greatly.

I suppose you didn't follow Elizabeth closely, otherwise you'd have known already - she said in the recent interviews a few times that she's a lot more comfortable with Team Tutberidze's training methods. And that didn't sound forced or like obligatory compliment at all.

Tolstoj · Mar 22, 2019

Ichatdelune said:
I'm just going to say I'm elated that Korea got two spots back, and my darling squirtle Eunsoo did that under immense pressure and with an injury. And now I'm fleeing the battlefield :scard7:

This was extremely important considering the depth Korea now has in Ladies.

Potentially they can have two ladies in the top 10 at Worlds next season.

sk8ath · Mar 22, 2019

ramed said:
I suppose you didn't follow Elizabeth closely, otherwise you'd have known already - she said in the recent interviews a few times that she's a lot more comfortable with Team Tutberidze's training methods. And that didn't sound forced or like obligatory compliment at all.

Elizabet is a violinist too...
And what violinists build their consistency is practice.

Worlds: Ladies FS

CanadianSkaterGuy

neusw

GGFan

neusw

GGFan

Interspectator

CanadianSkaterGuy

CanadianSkaterGuy

sk8ath

Shanshani

SNAKSuyun

did it spark joy?

Roast Toast

Colonel Green

andromache

GGFan

evasorange

s_parks

ramed

Tolstoj

sk8ath

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