Worlds: Ladies FS

After seeing the event live, I still don't understand the PCS and GOEs that Alina and Med get. Med skating was just laboured. Med benefited from her score buffer in the short. Alina deserves the win but not at those scores. Alina needs a better program as well.

Hopefully Rika will introduce her quads next season. I'm not really sure what else Med and Alina can offer given that the other Russian Juniors with quads are also moving up to Seniors next season. I am excited for Alena K however.

I don't want to bring politics in this discussion but as expected someone here have started mentioning overscoring for the Japanese skaters because it's held in Japan. Yikes! There are no Japanese judges/officials in this event. Please I know you're a long member here but seriously. Only the Russian skaters are allowed to have constantly high or increase in PCS/GOEs? I am not a fan of Kaori but after seeing her skate live she deserves those increase in PCS. It's also not like she started seniors this year as well. How about the other skaters from US, Korea, China? They're not allowed to have PCS increase as well?

Japanese fans appear quiet about these overscoring for now but even the middle aged ladies (in their 40s and 50s) behind me have all been talking about UR and edges and those PCS over scoring. Eventually they will be fed up. To be honest, I am sure a lot of them are already fed up. And yeah, Im sure other coaches/skaters from other feds are also fed up about these biased judging, over scoring and underscoring.

Im fine with the placement though I would have hoped Rika to medal even if its just bronze. That said, saying that the Japanese skaters were still overscored because its held in Japan is ridiculous. Next worlds is in Montreal by the way.

On a brighter note, theres a lot of things to be happy :

I am happy Elizabeth nailed that quad and got a medal. I am happy that Korea has two spots. I am happy for Eunsoo and Mariah for going through their programs despite their recent drama. The girl from China has a lot of potential. HK was good as well. Hopefully will see more from them. I am happy Gabby is back.

Also not related to Ladies, but I watched the last 2 groups in Ice Dance (Rhythm Dance) and wow, it made me so sleepy with all those tangos. The venue was also quite warm. It was lots of tango at siesta temperature. And yes, their scoring is also confusing just like the Ladies!


Anyway, goodbye and maybe see you next Season! It will be the year of the quads and 3A for Ladies.

andromache said:

Weird....I could've sworn that Elisabet skates for Kazakhstan and has always skated for Kazakhstan internationally. Did they mix up the flags?

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I think flags were OK ) As far as I can recall Elizabet skated for Russia in early juniors which is natural since she was born and always lived in Moscow. Then her parents decided it would be strategically wiser to find some wealthy patrons in Kazakhstan sports bodies given that Liz is half-Kazakh ethnically. Which of course doesn't change the fact that she alwyas lived and trained in her hometown Moscow, except the several-year stint with Orser.

whatif said:

potato=patata.

P.S: Has she ever foot step in Kazakhstan? Unless to collect her passport and even that might have been mailed to her Moscow home address.

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Denis Ten also spent a very large part of his time living and training in Russia. Still, what he did for the sport of figure skating in Kazakhstan is his legacy, and Tursynbaeva is continuing that legacy with her historic medal here. Instead people are trying to claim her for Russia. Weird that this is only happening now that she has a medal, and for the past four years I never saw anyone trying to claim her as a Russian skater. Or was she Canadian when her home address was in Toronto?

andromache said:

Denis Ten also spent a very large part of his time living and training in Russia. Still, what he did for the sport of figure skating in Kazakhstan is his legacy, and Tursynbaeva is continuing that legacy with her historic medal here. Instead people are trying to claim her for Russia. Weird that this is only happening now that she has a medal, and for the past four years I never saw anyone trying to claim her as a Russian skater. Or was she Canadian when her home address was in Toronto?

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Ah you just failed to recognize the tongue in the cheek of whatif. We know Bet is Muscovite since birth, has dual citizenship and doesn't speak Kazakh. Who cares? At least she can be rightfully called Muscovite. Nuff said

whatif said:

potato=patata.

P.S: Has she ever foot step in Kazakhstan? Unless to collect her passport and even that might have been mailed to her Moscow home address.

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Which is why I agree with several posters who have said that in an ideal world we wouldn't have to deal with nationalities. We've had many American athletes represent other countries because it eased their chances to make it to international competition. We also benefitted at the 2014 World Cup from having a bunch of German born players represent us (thank you American GIs for your exploits abroad).

risingtrot said:

Hopefully Rika will introduce her quads next season.

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I think her focus should be on getting those three 3As landed. She still leaves points on the table if she doesn't hit them, so I don't see how adding more risk will put her in better shape.

whatif said:

potato=patata.

P.S: Has she ever foot step in Kazakhstan? Unless to collect her passport and even that might have been mailed to her Moscow home address.

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Her family is ethnically Kazakh even though they have lived in Moscow for a long time... country of residence has nothing to do with lineage and heritage. I think it is nice that Elizabet represents Kazakhstan.

How does Zagitova deserve higher PCS than Medvedeva? A casual observer tuning in would be flummoxed . Which explains why this still remains a relatively niche sport .

Mariah and Bradie both had fabulous skates that were personally triumphant as athletes. For me that's more important than the actual results, although I think their results were fair and right. They each had trials this whole season that they've managed to endure and rise above, with these free skates at Worlds. I feel like this is tangible gain that they can take forward and will bolster and deepen their skating. Interestingly, their trials were almost opposite. Bradie has struggled all year to improve and also carry the banner of national champion. Mariah has climbed the mountain of her own uncertainty, to live up to her obvious-to-everyone potential.

And this same outcome can be extended to Evgenia and Alina. Each of them has persisted in the face of many failures ... and they've both turned those failures into stepping stones to this moment, and will carry something very valuable forward. Elizabet was somewhat under the radar until the last couple of months, and now she also has this triumphant skate and a beautiful quad salchow to boot. I feel very similar about Gabrielle's skate, and Sofia's, and Eunsoo's. It's about the process and the journey.

I'm another one who, in the face of ridiculous scoring inconsistencies, will continue to watch figure skating for the beautiful artistry and athleticism. I try to remember what the skaters say, that they can only control how they skate, and leave the rest to the judges. I can only control myself, and when I get angry or frustrated by a result, I have to remind myself that I'm a figure skating fan for the enjoyment it brings me, so I go re-watch some favorites. I honestly don't know how long that can keep working, but life is unpredictable. The gap between Alina and everyone else is maddening to me, because in my eyes the skating just isn't worthy of such a big gap. And it's discouraging to all the competitors. But I do honor her talent and effort.

My feelings about my Japanese favorites are complicated. Like all athletes, they work so hard and feel much disappointment when their skating or results don't show the passion and effort they put in. For me, Rika's artistry, particularly in her expression of the music, is only fully appreciated when she hits all the jumps. In the face of Alina's sky=high scores regardless of how she performs the jumps, that is disappointing. I wish I could chalk it up to people's different perceptions of the artistry, but I can't. It's pure manipulation. But it's something that we who value the subjective (i.e. human) element in figure skating have to put up with .... imperfection.

It's like figure skating itself .... we fans see the beauty and perfection in all its imperfections, I guess.

For all the overscoring/PCS discourse fans are having, I'm not sure the ISU will do anything unless there is like, a Sochi-level moment, and that seems unlikely for now. That, and it has to be something that attracts public attention - not just us diehards grumbling online. It's frustrating, but unless feds and coaches start making real noise, I don't know what can be done, or if a solution is even viable.

Ali81 said:

How does Zagitova deserve higher PCS than Medvedeva? A casual observer tuning in would be flummoxed . Which explains why this still remains a relatively niche sport .

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Because of some medal she won over year ago. Apparently, it also comes with extra squirt of PCS for the rest of the competitive career... or until judges find another girl to generously overscore.

She deserved to win here, I am happy we for once seen smiling Alina... but she was NOT that great to get such number. Unless PCS are now given for hunching, rushing and doings lots of random movements.

I am heartbroken for the Japanese ladies. I enjoyed them throughout the season and I am looking forward to see what they do next.

Happy for Gabby and Loena coming back from their injuries and managing decent skates.

Wanted Medvedeva to medal, but not like this. She WAS overscored.

Also... so underrrotations are not called anymore? It is very unfair to those that rotate their jumps fully. I guess they run out of carrots.

noraaa said:

Her family is ethnically Kazakh even though they have lived in Moscow for a long time... country of residence has nothing to do with lineage and heritage. I think it is nice that Elizabet represents Kazakhstan.

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Sorry you're wrong about "lineage and heritage", her mom is Kirghiz (have you heard about that ethnicity yet?) At home, they speak Russian. Elizabeth in her recent interview (after Universiade 2019) admits she doesn't know Kazakh language and doesn't care much about that. She also says Moscow is her home. Are you going to call Nathan Chen Chinese because of his ancestry, by the way? I'm afraid you simply don't quite understand what Russia and her people ethnically are. More than 10 billion Russians claim one of the Asian ethnicities as their ancestry and even more have mixed Asian ancestry (which shows easily) and just prefer to be called Russians without details about their ancestry. I don't see any reason other than purely practical ones why athletes need to be bound to specific nations/states. It would be much more fair for them to just represent themselves but alas, the established system of national federations will oppose that as much as they can. So I'm happy that Liz found the patrons abroad but I don't see why we should so eagerly support or oppose that decision. That's just what helps her stay at the top of this sports.

TheBallerina said:

She was Carmen today, and she deserved this title.

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She was Carmen? HA. How could you tell, when she held most moves for no more than 1 second? Literally raced through that program, missing lots of musical accents along the way. Sorry, but there was minimal artistry involved in this skate. Katarina Witt, she was not, by a long way.

That she got +GOE for the 3Z-3Lo is highway robbery.

She deserved the medal, but the PCS she garners for her tepid Carmen is mind boggling. She skated to Carmen, she definitely did not BECOME Carmen, though.

With literally not one single edge call or “!” warning for the entire event, and after what they did with Samodurova’s jumps, I think we can safely assume this tech panel couldn’t tell the difference between a Lutz and a flip.

I mean how did they literally watch a skater do a Lutz, mistake it for a flip, and then when they went back to fix it after realizing they’d called three flips, not think that *just maybe* there was a problem with the edge?

ramed said:

Sorry you're wrong about "lineage and heritage", her mom is Kirghiz (have you heard about that ethnicity yet?) At home, they speak Russian. Elizabeth in her recent interview (after Universiade 2019) admits she doesn't know Kazakh language and doesn't care much about that. She also says Moscow is her home. Are you going to call Nathan Chen Chinese because of his ancestry, by the way? I'm afraid you simply don't quite understand what Russia and her people ethnically are. More than 10 billion Russians claim one of the Asian ethnicities as their ancestry and even more have mixed Asian ancestry (which shows easily) and just prefer to be called Russians without details about their ancestry. I don't see any reason other than purely practical ones why athletes need to be bound to specific nations/states. It would be much more fair for them to just represent themselves but alas, the established system of national federations will oppose that as much as they can. So I'm happy that Liz found the patrons abroad but I don't see why we should so eagerly support or oppose that decision. That's just what helps her stay at the top of this sports.

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I didn't mean to offend or be unclear - just to say that she is well within her rights to skate for Kazakhstan because she has Kazakh lineage. I didn't say anything about the language, etc. And yes I have heard of Kyrgyzstan, I am not so ignorant

I would consider Nathan Chen to be Chinese-American. That is, he is American by birth and citizenship but has Chinese heritage also. If he had decided he wanted to skate for China it would not have been shocking or out of the question.

I feel there is such a double standard sometimes because skaters of heritage outside their country of citizenship are either considered "other" or their heritage is disregarded. Why can skaters not be both, regardless of who they skate for?

American media does this all the time which is irritating. Mirai Nagasu's parents are Japanese but she is an American citizen and skates for America, but US media kept referring to her at the PC Olympics as less American than Bradie Tennell who is white. That is incorrect - she can be both Japanese by heritage and American by birth and she chose to skate for the US.

Again i don't mean to cause any offense, just pointing out that I think it's nice that skaters are allowed to choose if they represent the nation they reside in or a nation of parental heritage.

Congrats to the medalists! I think all three were the most error free of the two days so are rightfully on the medal stand. I like all three Japanese ladies and I was sad for the Japanese audience that they didn't get at least one medalist, but all three made unfortunate errors. The Japanese crowd is so fantastic to all the skaters, so I give the crowd a standing ovation!

I didn't get to see Bradie (woke up too late for that) so I look forward to seeing her program later today on TV. So pleased she did so well and was scored well too. And happy for Mariah Bell too, who my gosh had to be going through so much this week. Good job American ladies!

I am gutted for Kaori and Rika after they both have had an amazing season. But, to me, Bradie and Evgenia made up for it. They were my favorite performances of the night! I was really rooting for Evgenia to medal I am also happy to see Gabby back out there again, given her circumstances this season, she did amazing (that lutz-toe was awesome).

zschultz1986 said:

She was Carmen? HA. How could you tell, when she held most moves for no more than 1 second? Literally raced through that program, missing lots of musical accents along the way. Sorry, but there was minimal artistry involved in this skate. Katarina Witt, she was not, by a long way.

That she got +GOE for the 3Z-3Lo is highway robbery.

She deserved the medal, but the PCS she garners for her tepid Carmen is mind boggling. She skated to Carmen, she definitely did not BECOME Carmen, though.

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For me she did, for me her interpretation was flawless, for me she definitely sold the program, was extremely expressive, with both her face and her movements, everything was exactly on point of the music and the entire program as a whole gave the impression of a powerful, worthy of a World Champion program.

It's clear that we don't have the same opinion, after all FS is a subjective sport. Usually when I dislike someone I try to see something good in him/her anyway, acknowledge their flaws with kindness and try to see the good side in skaters. At least we agree that she was the best today and deserved the medal that she worked so, so hard to get.

Speaking of Katarina, she congratulated Alina for her win, "from Carmen, to Carmen". A beautiful gesture and a high honour for Alina:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BvUQFVshHSR/

ramed said:

Sorry you're wrong about "lineage and heritage", her mom is Kirghiz (have you heard about that ethnicity yet?) At home, they speak Russian. Elizabeth in her recent interview (after Universiade 2019) admits she doesn't know Kazakh language and doesn't care much about that. She also says Moscow is her home. Are you going to call Nathan Chen Chinese because of his ancestry, by the way? I'm afraid you simply don't quite understand what Russia and her people ethnically are. More than 10 billion Russians claim one of the Asian ethnicities as their ancestry and even more have mixed Asian ancestry (which shows easily) and just prefer to be called Russians without details about their ancestry. I don't see any reason other than purely practical ones why athletes need to be bound to specific nations/states. It would be much more fair for them to just represent themselves but alas, the established system of national federations will oppose that as much as they can. So I'm happy that Liz found the patrons abroad but I don't see why we should so eagerly support or oppose that decision. That's just what helps her stay at the top of this sports.

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Lol, I bet if Evgenia decided it was more advantageous to skate for Canada or Armenia, people would not be so happy and accepting of her choice. In fact, people who dislike her often imply that she is not truly Russian.

Elisabet skates for Kazakhstan. She has Kazakh citizenship. She may have Russian as well, but for the purposes of figure skating, which is the sport we are discussing, she is Kazakh. (Russian is one of two official languages of Kazakhstan, btw.)