P.J. Kwong on Canada and World Podium | Golden Skate

P.J. Kwong on Canada and World Podium

starla16

Medalist
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
No, russian skating was the same in rebuilding phase after 2006 and it took them after 2010 to replenish in all disciplines
 

Noxchild

Medalist
Joined
Feb 14, 2018
Country
Canada
Considering how long, expansive, and dominant the eras of Patrick Chan, Virtue & Moir, and Duhamel & Radford (Kaetlyn too, less so) were in their disciplines in Canadian skating, why is it a surprise that the power vacuums they've left aren't immediately being sucked up by competitors of equal caliber? Except for the ice dancers, who are Canada's strongest discipline at the moment. Only one year has passed and three more still to Beijing. If by '22 there's no real leader in a discipline then I'll start panicking ;)
 

Colonel Green

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Country
Canada
This is the sort of article written for casual sports readers, I guess, but it's kind of weird to have a "should you panic about this thing you probably weren't thinking about? No!" article.

And, for the record, I'd agree. Fifteen straight years with at least one medal (and, in the last decade, the most gold medals won by any country) is a streak that obviously had to end at some point, especially following mass retirements in the top ranks. We had some people who had the capacity to contend for a medal, they didn't quite get there. That's how it works.
 

kresslia

Medalist
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
It's very tough to live up to an era that produced 11 (?) World Championship titles, with one in every division.

Still, no medals is a little concerning. There's still so much time to go until 2022, though. Sometimes one breakout season is all it takes. While Canada didn't win any medals in the senior Championship, we did have L/L win the junior ID competition. I have my eyes closely on them heading in to 2022!
 

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Yes, this article is written with a positive spin on things. Canada had a great team who gave it their all and most have now moved on so it will take some time to rebuild. We never lack for ice dance teams nor pairs, that's for sure! Go team Canada
 

Osmond4gold

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Considering how long, expansive, and dominant the eras of Patrick Chan, Virtue & Moir, and Duhamel & Radford (Kaetlyn too, less so) were in their disciplines in Canadian skating, why is it a surprise that the power vacuums they've left aren't immediately being sucked up by competitors of equal caliber? Except for the ice dancers, who are Canada's strongest discipline at the moment. Only one year has passed and three more still to Beijing. If by '22 there's no real leader in a discipline then I'll start panicking ;)

Why Kaetlyn's achievements are deemed lesser than others, I have no idea. She has competed in an era when women in the sport were at their best from 2012 - 2018, has earned 5 World and Olympic medals combined, and accomplished more than most will ever in her category. Just an odd thing to say, Noxchild.
 

brightphoton

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
What a headline: 2019 tournament 1st in 15 years that Canadians leave without medal

Isn't it enough that Canada has gotten a World medal in some discipline every year for 15 years? They consistently got gold medals at Olympics too. Don't be greedy :scratch3:
 

lichi

sui holding a deep edge
On the Ice
Joined
Apr 24, 2018
Why Kaetlyn's achievements are deemed lesser than others, I have no idea. She has competed in an era when women in the sport were at their best from 2012 - 2018, has earned 5 World and Olympic medals combined, and accomplished more than most will ever in her category. Just an odd thing to say, Noxchild.

No disrespect, but Kaetlyn has never been a dominant skater for as long as Patrick, D/R, or V/M. She was a top contender for two seasons, but Patrick, D/R, and V/M have all been dominant for 6+ seasons, always favorites for the podium, no matter the competition. Granted, it was because of her injury, but still don't think its comparable.
 

Scout

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Why Kaetlyn's achievements are deemed lesser than others, I have no idea. She has competed in an era when women in the sport were at their best from 2012 - 2018, has earned 5 World and Olympic medals combined, and accomplished more than most will ever in her category. Just an odd thing to say, Noxchild.

I don't think it's that Kaetlyn's achievements are deemed lesser. Kaetlyn's had phenomenal success. Consider Noxchild's opening words: "Considering how long, expansive and dominant..." My interpretation is that the comment was geared at the fact that she hasn't dominated at the top in quite the same manner and for the same number of years. It's a longevity issue, not an achievements issue.

The other three have been on the senior circuit for a longer period of time (D&R only 1 year longer than Kaetlyn together, but even more considering they were senior with other partners). They've got more national titles. They have more more 4CC medals, more GPF appearances and medals, more worlds appearances. When you're looking at world medals they contributed, it's 2 for Kaetlyn (1 gold), 4 for D&R (2 golds), 5 for Chan (3 golds) and 7 for V&M (3 golds). V&M and Chan each have 3 Olympic appearances.
 

Colonel Green

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Country
Canada
Why Kaetlyn's achievements are deemed lesser than others, I have no idea.
It has nothing to do with "lesser"; Kaetlyn objectively wasn't on top nearly as long as those other people. She was only really an international heavy hitter for two seasons -- before that you have flashes of brilliance and a lot of injury-related setbacks. She was definitely not at peak for as much as V/M (who honestly were near or at the top basically their whole senior careers) or Chan.
 

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
What a headline: 2019 tournament 1st in 15 years that Canadians leave without medal

Isn't it enough that Canada has gotten a World medal in some discipline every year for 15 years? They consistently got gold medals at Olympics too. Don't be greedy :scratch3:

Canada Greedy? Never! We are proud of our skaters for just making it to the Worlds and keeping Canada in the running. Were always supportive of skaters from all over the globe. Look how many train here and utilize our top choreographers!
 

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
I feel there was a red flag here with the men, because they lost the 2nd spot, yes they do have Gogolev for the future but there is no plan B at the moment, they tried pushing Keegan Messing but he's very inconsistent. In Juniors it is the same the other guys are good to great but not very consistent even without the quads.

As for the ladies, i thought this was a good competition for Daleman, especially after nationals, she fought for most of the jumps, although after the mistake on the 2a-3t she lost that confidence a bit. Good to see her landing the 3ltz-3t which was always a struggle in the past, not sure if this is the good layout i'd work on.

She has the best 3t-3t, we saw in the past judges giving her huge GOE for that element, so why not doing that in the long and maybe a 2a-1eu-3s and a 3ltz-2t (so you can keep the two lutzes), cause her 2a-3t looks forced to me, and i guess someone on that group likes to push that combo because they're doing the same with Evgenia and also there to me that combo doesn't look good.
 

Noxchild

Medalist
Joined
Feb 14, 2018
Country
Canada
Thanks to everyone who explained in detail what I meant - and come on, I was cheering on Kaetlyn like nothing else last Worlds ;)
 

StephenGfan

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 10, 2018
I'm not worried tbh. L/L are turning senior next season and Stephen is senior age eligible in the season after this one coming up, And Brooke and Brandon of course. all five very promising skaters.
 

Colonel Green

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Country
Canada
I feel there was a red flag here with the men, because they lost the 2nd spot, yes they do have Gogolev for the future but there is no plan B at the moment, they tried pushing Keegan Messing but he's very inconsistent.
That's really not accurate. Men's is the second-best field Canada has after ice dance; there's several guys who have competitive international technical content. None of them is a World gold medal contender, but several are very plausible as top ten finishers. And I wouldn't say Keegan is notably more inconsistent than most of the men in the field; Worlds wasn't a good event for him, but he had a number of very good competitions this season.

Good to see her landing the 3ltz-3t which was always a struggle in the past, not sure if this is the good layout i'd work on.

She has the best 3t-3t, we saw in the past judges giving her huge GOE for that element, so why not doing that in the long
Because it's not worth as much? She got 10.20 points for the 3T-3T in the short, and that was with GOE marks that were almost all 4s and 5s. The 3Lz-3T in the free was worth 11.79 points, and that was with GOE that was mostly 3s.

Relying on the toe-toe was a smart measure her team took initially since the bigger combinations weren't working, but in the long term they clearly want to give her as much base value that she can execute properly as possible. I'm impressed that in the midst of all the problems she's seemingly managed to improve her combination content still. I suspect they'll put the Lutz-toe in the short next year, assuming it's judged sufficiently reliable.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
In 1999 (the first year I started following figure skating), we weren't on the podium in any discipline, either, and we survived and rebuilt. :)
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Canada, Slipchuk and their communications team will never admit or say they are panicking but this hardly a great situation. It would be pretty sobering if they don't make the WTT. While they have LL in dance they are not the best shot in dance even to make the Canadian team. Though that door opened wider today with Weapo sitting out or retiring. Comparing the Canadians to 2006 Russia is not really a great comparison. They still had Plushy and some world junior medallists plus the fact they almost always have a top 5 pairs and top 8 dance team. Their ladies also always never as bad as Canada's worst situation. Can you imagine if Daleman didn't skate? Still if the men could get their act together - Nguyen and or Messing both have potential for top 5; Gogolov in a couple of years maybe even a medal if he keeps developing. Realistically the woman are once again weak unless Gabby can regain her form, confidence and health. Pairs is ho hum but with Charlie coming back and Moore Towers and Marinaro improving and being solid they have two possible top five pairs team. They are exactly inspiring. If they can stay ahead of the US they will be doing well. For the team event at the olymics they fortunately do not need two singles skater for men and women unlike WTT.
 

theharleyquinn

Medalist
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
I think Canada will be okay in pairs. They're just fine in dance and W/P potentially taking the season off will make the remaining teams, especially G/P who are sometimes criminally underscored, better off. They are at risk of losing their second spot in ladies this year. If they're truly focusing on the juniors, I'd say they have to put their money where their mouth is and we'll see what happens in a few seasons. Men's won't be saved on Gogolev's back alone, just like it's unfair to expect only Gabby to carry ladies. Getting Veronik and Aurora out there on the GP will hopefully help, but there is a clear pipeline problem right now. Maybe "panic" isn't the right word, but there's plenty of reason to be worried when you have both single skating disciplines at risk of only having one spot next year.
 

Sabrina

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
I think the worst part, at least on paper, for Skate Canada are the ladies, and pairs. There is lot of pontential very good skaters in men: Nguyen, Sadovski, Nadeau, Messing and Gogo later. In ladies it is only Gabby, Alaine and Aurora. The first 2 are not very reliable, and Aurora is a dark horse. Can they really deliver when needed?
In pairs there is only MT/M and possibly the new pair I/B

I think Canada needs a different type of approach. Figure skating is so expensive, no wonder the base is so thin. I think they need to either sponsor younger skaters or find a way to lower the price for young skaters. I personally know a few talented skaters with no means to continue.
 
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