Can anyone challenge Papadakis and Cizeron? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Can anyone challenge Papadakis and Cizeron?

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Country
Olympics
I would also like to know who you see as a team that is closer to them than the scores show. (genuine question, I can't judge ice dance that well).

H/D have everything it takes, and way better SS than P/C (esp if you know what you are looking at from all angles), WeaPo at times, G/P are getting better, H/B (esp. Jean Luc) definitely, as well. The Russians: Not so much (over scored and placed out of their league).
 

GGFan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 9, 2013
H/D have everything it takes, and way better SS than P/C (esp if you know what you are looking at from all angles), WeaPo at times, G/P are getting better, H/B (esp. Jean Luc) definitely, as well. The Russians: Not so much (over scored and placed out of their league).

I completely respect your expertise but can you clarify this? If you're grading on a curve and giving H/D a 10 what would you give P/C? I ask because you said way better. For me I might agree that H/D matches or surpasses them in power and their edges are impressive but I see P/C's flow as superior and their ability to transition from move to move in their programs more seamless.

H/B are my babies but I think for every crossover P/C do, they probably do three so I honestly would not compare them.

I think P/C like most champions give you the impression that when they step on the ice they are on a different level. I think they're succeeding currently and only V/M was able to bring something just as special but different when competing with them. I love a good completion and some might find it boring to see them dominate but I also need my competitions to be legit as well.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Their FD's always look the same (to me). I'd like to see them select a different type of music (jazz? rythm & blues?).

They have such a smoothness and though they are one dimmensionalitseemsin the FD it is always like silk or butter. Jazzz might be good. There is something that shocks me. Despite their lyrical quality I don't buy them as a romantic couple. Despite dancer type bodies and all I don't get them as lovers or romantic whic is odd consideringtheirlyrical skills. I don't think the judges will allow them right now to be challenged because if they wantedtoothey certainly could. They are 4 time world champs yet still do not h ave the chachet of Davis and White or Virtue and Moir or really evena Klimova and Ponomarenko.
 

peepsquick

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
They just have a different style, more European. Their togetherness isn't not based on "sexyness" or sex appeal (though their RD to me is as sensual as it gets!).
I totally buy their togetherness (for lack of a better word).
If they seem "sameish" to a lot of people, it is because of their signature glide. Their FDs are actually all quite distinctive. But they have this otherworldly smoothness in common.
 

vitamintea

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 14, 2018
H/D have everything it takes, and way better SS than P/C (esp if you know what you are looking at from all angles), WeaPo at times, G/P are getting better, H/B (esp. Jean Luc) definitely, as well. The Russians: Not so much (over scored and placed out of their league).

I completely respect your expertise but can you clarify this? If you're grading on a curve and giving H/D a 10 what would you give P/C? I ask because you said way better. For me I might agree that H/D matches or surpasses them in power and their edges are impressive but I see P/C's flow as superior and their ability to transition from move to move in their programs more seamless.

H/B are my babies but I think for every crossover P/C do, they probably do three so I honestly would not compare them.

I think P/C like most champions give you the impression that when they step on the ice they are on a different level. I think they're succeeding currently and only V/M was able to bring something just as special but different when competing with them. I love a good completion and some might find it boring to see them dominate but I also need my competitions to be legit as well.

Yes, as someone who's new to watching ice dance, I'm also curious about what to look for to evaluate SS quality. I don't like the R&J program but I've tried not to let that cloud my judgment and just observe the technical quality of the skating. To me, P/C feel smoother and refined, while H/D are more erratic. (That's NOT to say that they're flailing around like juniors, but just in comparison.) Also I feel like H/D's lifts are not as effortless.
 

Ophelia

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 6, 2013
They just have a different style, more European. Their togetherness isn't not based on "sexyness" or sex appeal (though their RD to me is as sensual as it gets!).
I totally buy their togetherness (for lack of a better word).
If they seem "sameish" to a lot of people, it is because of their signature glide. Their FDs are actually all quite distinctive. But they have this otherworldly smoothness in common.

It's not European. It's very very French.
 

Roast Toast

Medalist
Joined
Apr 13, 2017
It's not European. It's very very French.

Eh I find this to be a bit of a distinction without a difference as long as "European" is meant as different from "Russian". The French and British Ice Dance schools are way too intertwined otherwise. Aside from the Zazoui basics I find P/C much closer stylistically to T/D than, say, A/P.
 

DSQ

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Country
United-Kingdom
I think if anyone does it'll be a breakout team coming up from the junior ranks.

Who though? The only Junior team I see with real talent and potential is Avonley Nguyen & Vadym Kolesnik and I don’t see them going senior until at least 2021.

Imo Papadakis & Cizeron are a class of their own.
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
I thought H/D might be able to, but they didn't have the right material this season (specifically the FD). If they could bring out another "Caught Out in the Rain," maybe. Other options are S/K and the Russian S/B, but it depends on material, too, and the Eurosport commentator said during S/B's FD, that it was performed well but didn't have the difficulty of even H/D. I'm hoping it will be S/B who challenges them eventually, but I have a feeling it will be S/K, if Nikita doesn't go back to messing up his twizzles.

About the North Americans, G/P never had a chance of challenging P/C, and I think W/P and C/B are (perhaps unfairly) being slotted in as 'also-rans' who are near the end of their competitive time.
 

ladyjane

Medalist
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Country
Netherlands
I am hoping that P/C will continue to improve themselves (to which they are genuinely committed) and also continue to get inspired by unexpected sources. I mean, Stephan Lambiel? Who would have thought of a single skater as an inspiration for an ice dancer, but if there ever was a single skater who could do so it would be him. Perhaps Jeffrey Buttle. But I think that's also what sets them apart: looking for inspiration in unexpected places (even if Christopher Dean obviously is much less so). And what the Dutch commentators said: they can be as one, yet still are able to show individuality. That's class. I don't see others catching up very fast. There's some great ice dance couples around, who are improving...but if the one you're chasing also improves, it's going to be a H***l of a job to actually catch up. But one never knows...
 

tral

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Not really sure how the North American teams are supposed to be on par with P/C, but sure.
 

Sugarpova

#EmpressAirlines #SinKatsapologist
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
nah the judges showed that no one can come close to PC (I wish they won in Korea really:slink:) I do see why they are always rewatrded. They have their style & do it like no other.

Not a fan of H/D but they def may challenge them.

lol SinKats 'fans' can calm down tho (reading hate is super funny:handw:) :rofl: No one will let them come close to PC.
 

1904sk8

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Everyone saying that p/c have worse skating skills then other top teams must not know what they are talking about. When they first won worlds in 2015 it was clear that there was a disproportion in their skating skill and their SS might not be as strong as more experienced compared to other top teams. In the last two years especially Gabi's SS have dramatically improved and they are very well matched now (earlier in the season when Guillaume was injured Gabi looked even stronger then he did). H/D have good edges but they sometimes have trouble skating smaller when it is required, such as in the TR which they never were able to master the same way the other top teams did.
 

slider11

Medalist
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
P/C are stupendous! As teams strive to match them, more difficult moves will be incorporated. One factor will be the enemy of such a strategy - age. Not pointing at any team nor any specific age but some skaters "wear" better than others and some have the chronological disadvantage of being near or past the age of 30. Like any fine machine, time will wear down the parts. Ironically, P/C had some injury issues and are no where near 30. So, I realize it can happen at any time. But I think P/C are smart enough now to hold their mastery but not get too crazy with over training. I think those other teams will have to be smart about how far to push in the coming years. Winning silver or bronze is pretty good.
 

Ducky

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 14, 2018
They have such a smoothness and though they are one dimmensionalitseemsin the FD it is always like silk or butter. Jazzz might be good. There is something that shocks me. Despite their lyrical quality I don't buy them as a romantic couple. Despite dancer type bodies and all I don't get them as lovers or romantic whic is odd consideringtheirlyrical skills. I don't think the judges will allow them right now to be challenged because if they wantedtoothey certainly could. They are 4 time world champs yet still do not h ave the chachet of Davis and White or Virtue and Moir or really evena Klimova and Ponomarenko.

One of my favorite things about P/D is how they don't perform as if they are a romantic couple. Their Moonlight Sonata was purely about the music. This year's FD is ambiguous as to what the relationship is between them and whether it's a long married but still in love husband and wife, lovers in a comfortable relationship, or a pair of close friends. And I think all those interpretations are valid. And I think the lack of tangible romantic/sexual chemistry between them means that they can perform different stories than what other couples who are more focused on portraying romance are able to.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I completely respect your expertise but can you clarify this? If you're grading on a curve and giving H/D a 10 what would you give P/C? I ask because you said way better. For me I might agree that H/D matches or surpasses them in power and their edges are impressive but I see P/C's flow as superior and their ability to transition from move to move in their programs more seamless.

H/B are my babies but I think for every crossover P/C do, they probably do three so I honestly would not compare them.

I think P/C like most champions give you the impression that when they step on the ice they are on a different level. I think they're succeeding currently and only V/M was able to bring something just as special but different when competing with them. I love a good completion and some might find it boring to see them dominate but I also need my competitions to be legit as well.
It is super hard to compare. PC have four world titles which is unheard of now adays. They have a very smooth and polished look and Gabby has improved immensely to try to catch up to Guillaume. The judges love them. They are hard to beat despite a lack of range, despite him being better than her. They kind of stand out in a good way beause the Russians are fighitng each other. H/D don't always pick the best programs, Weapo are rather stagnant, gilles and Porier are too Duchesney like quirky but the skating sometimes is a bit rough, Chock and Bates has to get by HD in their homeland. They are young and so far ahead at least in reputation and to a point skill but they are no Virtue and Moir or Davis and White. that being said they have 4 world titles and appear unbeatable.
 
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