Can anyone challenge Papadakis and Cizeron?

Eleanor · Mar 31, 2019

russell30 said:
I think most pundits believe they stick to a piece of music genre that suits there style and don't try other things! They are good at what they do but need to be versatile with other genres - that may come!! however...Would love to them skate to an 'Argentine Tango' maybe for there FD next year or a fast paced 'Flamenco/Bulerias ' theme, we will see!!

But what piece of music genre do they stick to ? What is P/C's so-called style ? Why things should they try to be "more versatile". What was not enough with Ed Sheeran ? Midnight Blues ? Oddudua ? Duet ? Rachmaninov ?
I am just trying to understand because I honestly don't understand that criticism. I don't understand how can someone say their programs are all the same. How they are not versatile enough skating from Ed Sheeran to Beethoven in a blink of an eye, how they can always be themlseves and add their touch even in the RD.

yuna13 · Mar 31, 2019

little advice

on't try to be them or don't pick a overused music.

Also about the versatile argument: i think it's funny that pairs teams like S/H or J/C do the same style of programs BOTH in the sp and lp every season and yet no one is calling them out. This also applies to singles skaters but for some reason ONLY gabriella and guillaume are put on trial.
They said that since they don't get to pick in the short, in the free ( it's called free dance for a reason) they are doing what they want!

I said this already but i wish for another fd battle like we had with build a home vs fix you. It was incredible!

theharleyquinn · Mar 31, 2019

Maybe if Ilinykh/Soloviev competed...

Casual · Mar 31, 2019

Eleanor said:
But what piece of music genre do they stick to ? What is P/C's so-called style ? Why things should they try to be "more versatile". What was not enough with Ed Sheeran ? Midnight Blues ? Oddudua ? Duet ? Rachmaninov ?
I am just trying to understand because I honestly don't understand that criticism. I don't understand how can someone say their programs are all the same. How they are not versatile enough skating from Ed Sheeran to Beethoven in a blink of an eye, how they can always be themlseves and add their touch even in the RD.

P/C are not versatile because they always create the same emotion/mood.

It's exquisite, but it's very similar from program to program, and doesn't matter what music.

It's their signature style (that soft, lyrical, "only-by-P/C-dreamlike-yearning-mood" with subtle variations) which both distinguishes them from others, and also can make them boring (same ol', same ol').

In theory, Moonlight Sonata and Ed Sheeran should stir completely different emotions in the audience. But since it's P/C, it's all the same. Very nice, but very similar. They make the music their own, but by keeping their interpretation "pure P/C", they also lose the deeper range of human emotions that could be found in each piece of music they chose, (let alone the ones they didn't).

P/C's skating programs are like micro-photography - they choose one flower, and examine it in precise detail, noticing subtle shades and shapes of each petal. It's always beautiful. But they are missing the forest.

rain · Mar 31, 2019

Casual said:
P/C are not versatile because they always create the same emotion/mood.

It's exquisite, but it's very similar from program to program, and doesn't matter what music.

It's their signature style (that soft, lyrical, "only-by-P/C-dreamlike-yearning-mood" with subtle variations) which both distinguishes them from others, and also can make them boring (same ol', same ol').

In theory, Moonlight Sonata and Ed Sheeran should stir completely different emotions in the audience. But since it's P/C, it's all the same. Very nice, but very similar. They make the music their own, but by keeping their interpretation "pure P/C", they also lose the deeper range of human emotions that could be found in each piece of music they chose, (let alone the ones they didn't).

P/C's skating programs are like micro-photography - they choose one flower, and examine it in precise detail, noticing subtle shades and shapes of each petal. It's always beautiful. But they are missing the forest.

Thank you for this. You said everything I wanted to say. I had been mulling over how to respond on the versatility argument.

It's kind of like comparing the actor who you don't even recognize from one role to the other, with the actor who basically plays himself in everything he does. One is not necessarily better or more successful than the other, just different ways of going about the craft.

It drives me nuts though in the short and rhythm dances that the judges ceased to acknowledge this as soon as P/C became world champions. Did anyone really believe, in their heart of hearts, that P/C had the second-best blues that season? It's notable that before that it was not uncommon for them not to win this portion of the event. They've improved, but not by that much — though the tango was one of their more successful outings.

Eleanor · Apr 1, 2019

This all seems very subjective though.

Personally, I don't think they create the same mood/emotions. In each FD, I always see them create something unique, very personal to them and intense. Mozart was a love story, Build a Home was about moving to Canada, Oddudua was darker, more intense and MS is a pure classical virtuose program. As for Duet, it's just so intimate, I actually never thought we could see a program like this even in a gala.

Their short dance are very interesting IMO. It might have been their weakness technically but I always thought they had fantastic program. And again, everytime they did something different, they made bold choices of music and they stuck to it whatever happened. And it always paid off.

I am surprise to read that you see no difference between MS and Ed Sheeran

. These two programs could not be more different. Gabby SHINES in Ed Sheeran. She is the star actually. I can't stop watching her. She is sexy, sensual, confident, playing with Guillaume. And Guillaume is a leading man, showing the way to Gaby and yet letting her shine on the ice. As for MS, they are like one soul in two bodies. They move together like one, they feel the music and respond to each note written by Beethoven. The program is melancholic, romantic and what I like is that they are able to step down as individuals and just let their skating and the music live. MS is a masterpiece. And it's totally different from Shape of you.

Artistically, they are always top notch in the RD..

maya1985 · Apr 1, 2019

Casual said:
In theory, Moonlight Sonata and Ed Sheeran should stir completely different emotions in the audience. But since it's P/C, it's all the same. .

It's April 1st :laugh:

Manitou · Apr 1, 2019

I was mesmerized by P/C for three years, but after the costume mishap where they blew up Olympic Gold because of sheer stupidity, I kind of lost much portion of my sympathy. Yes, they have their unique flow, magic, technique and the entire captivating package, but now everybody wants to be like them. The teams are flying to Montreal by flocks and that bothers me. I start to cheer for other teams simply because they are not from Montreal.
I say Victoria/Nikita are closest to challenging them, but they need to settle on the high level of consistency. And I hope it will happen, because the dances start to be too predictable. I want competition.

Baron Vladimir · Apr 1, 2019

Casual said:
P/C are not versatile because they always create the same emotion/mood.

It's exquisite, but it's very similar from program to program, and doesn't matter what music.

It's their signature style (that soft, lyrical, "only-by-P/C-dreamlike-yearning-mood" with subtle variations) which both distinguishes them from others, and also can make them boring (same ol', same ol').

It is some kind of post modern lyrical style and yes, you can say they used it in almost every program... But after all, that is their own style and you can say they invented/popularized it... So, i don't think they should be criticized for something it is uniquelly theirs... If people want to criticize someone about the 'same ol' style, they should criticize other teams/coaches/choreographers who are trying to replicate that. Because criticizing P/C is like criticizing single skaters for sticking for the same 'unique' spins/combos, or criticizing S/B for using their sit twizzles etc, when those are the athlethes who actually populirazed those things and are known because of that...

peepsquick · Apr 1, 2019

Manitou said:
I was mesmerized by P/C for three years, but after the costume mishap where they blew up Olympic Gold because of sheer stupidity, I kind of lost much portion of my sympathy. Yes, they have their unique flow, magic, technique and the entire captivating package, but now everybody wants to be like them. The teams are flying to Montreal by flocks and that bothers me. I start to cheer for other teams simply because they are not from Montreal.
I say Victoria/Nikita are closest to challenging them, but they need to settle on the high level of consistency. And I hope it will happen, because the dances start to be too predictable. I want competition.

I was mesmerized by P/C for three years, but after the costume mishap where they blew up Olympic Gold because of sheer stupidity, I kind of lost much portion of my sympathy.

I don't see the correlation. They didn't ask for your sympathy and it has been their loss and somebody else's gain. I didn't hear them complain.

Yes, they have their unique flow, magic, technique and the entire captivating package, but now everybody wants to be like them. The teams are flying to Montreal by flocks and that bothers me.

Again ... why should you be disappointed in P/C because the rest of the field had the bad idea to try and emulate them. The mass exodus to Gadbois has more to do with the atmosphere and the quality/efficiency of the training.

I fail to see the logic in what you say ...

gmyers · Apr 1, 2019

No and it’s disgraceful because no team is more historically boring and no personality than p/c

Manitou · Apr 1, 2019

peepsquick said:
They didn't ask for your sympathy and it has been their loss and somebody else's gain.

Obviously. They don't even know me, so why would they even bother about my sympathy? I don't understand why you are picking on my post. I was talking about my attitude to P/C, not theirs to me.

Again ... why should you be disappointed in P/C because the rest of the field had the bad idea to try and emulate them.

It's a natural reaction. I decide who I cheer for. It just personal emotions. It doesn't need a logical proof. I like originality while it's still original. When it stops being original then I look elsewhere.
Yes, P/C are magnificent and indisputably the best, but now they are leading an entire church behind them trying to emulate the masters. No, it's not their fault that the church is following, but it still my emotions, isn't it?

peepsquick · Apr 1, 2019

gmyers said:
No and it’s disgraceful because no team is more historically boring and no personality than p/c

:rofl2:

peepsquick · Apr 1, 2019

Manitou said:
Obviously. They don't even know me, so why would they even bother about my sympathy? I don't understand why you are picking on my post. I was talking about my attitude to P/C, not theirs to me.

It's a natural reaction. I decide who I cheer for. It just personal emotions. It doesn't need a logical proof. I like originality while it's still original. When it stops being original then I look elsewhere.
Yes, P/C are magnificent and indisputably the best, but now they are leading an entire church behind them trying to emulate the masters. No, it's not their fault that the church is following, but it still my emotions, isn't it?

Some things might have been lost in translation here. Never mind! You are surely entitled to your emotions.

AkikoNana · Apr 2, 2019

I’ve followed P/C since Zazoui period. In 2014 I’ve loved their Woodkid FS and I miss that vibe...I never thought they would have the SAME FD type 4 years in a row.

Cizeron is a joy for the eyes, I think he’s one of the best male ice dancer ever: such a flow, upper body works, deep edges...not sure Gabriella always follows him properly, but they works togheter (to remain in France I think Abachkina was a better dancer in SS than Gabriella is).

They works...but they’re not the invincible duo the judges want us to believe. I think they deserve to win but not with such a gap...it’s not the real situation in the ice dance and I’m very sad that every other contender is forced to change to emulate them only to be rewarded by the judges...

leilaraj · Apr 2, 2019

When I saw their programs for this season, I was instantly a big fan of the RD and not so much of the FD.. I watched their WC performance so many times now and everytime I feel the FD more and more and I’m just in awe.
I don‘t agree that they give us the same feeling over and over again.
This season S/K had a fantastic RD, their FD is pure imitation of P/C and I was never more bored by a program!
I don‘t see anyone challenge them this quad and I hope they will go for another one after that, I just can‘t get enough of that perfection.

peepsquick · Apr 2, 2019

leilaraj said:
When I saw their programs for this season, I was instantly a big fan of the RD and not so much of the FD.. I watched their WC performance so many times now and everytime I feel the FD more and more and I’m just in awe.
I don‘t agree that they give us the same feeling over and over again.
This season S/K had a fantastic RD, their FD is pure imitation of P/C and I was never more bored by a program!
I don‘t see anyone challenge them this quad and I hope they will go for another one after that, I just can‘t get enough of that perfection.

Exactly my experience this season: totally mesmerized by their RD and at first, disappointed by their FD. This is still not my favorite FD but I have watched it now countless times and it is perfect in its own right. They are just that good and very distinctive in their own style. I don't know why so many people gripe about everyone having the same style. It is not true. There is a good variety of styles out there. Some of the "newest" powerhouses (H/D, F-B/S, S/B ) favor for instance the more showy athletic style in the vein of V/M last season. And there are many other very distinctive voices out there. Just enjoy!

rosy14 · Apr 3, 2019

In ice dance history there was the era of England, then England and USSR, then Russia + France + others, then again Russia + France + Italy + Canada + others and finally Canada and USA.
After Sochi the “powers that be” deciced fora new French era and anointed P/C. Perhaps now they’re beginning to be annoyed and will start again a France- Russia era. And so on.
Let’s see what happens at the Team Trophy.

TontoK · Apr 3, 2019

They won't be challenged.

They're the best team currently competing. They deserve their success.

But I'm bored with them.

tral · Apr 3, 2019

Eh, this "just their style, nothing else" thing has been said about many skaters at this point. I don't see P/C that way.

Can anyone challenge Papadakis and Cizeron?

Eleanor

yuna13

theharleyquinn

Casual

rain

Eleanor

maya1985

Manitou

Baron Vladimir

peepsquick

gmyers

Manitou

peepsquick

peepsquick

AkikoNana

leilaraj

peepsquick

rosy14

TontoK

Hot Tonto

tral

Match Penalty

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