2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 49 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

Happy Skates

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 18, 2019
Maybe now...but when she took Yulia and Adian to visit Marina and get new programs Eteri specifically said she was surprised at how structured her camp in Michigan was. She went as far as to say that she was amazed at how she could evenly divide up time with each skater. It really sounded as if back then (2015-16?) she wasn’t doing that herself.

I don’t think it’s that big of a deal really but I doubt she can give everyone equal one on one time. She has a big crew of coaches though and I suspect that everyone gets as much attention as they seek ;)

I think she probably does skew towards giving more attention towards the students who have more success/potential, but this makes sense, I mean, you're going to give more attention to Zagitova about to go to worlds than someone like Morisi. As for the Marina thing, she probably was referring to the system of giving private lessons for set amount of times i.e. "dividing up her time" as opposed to doing sort of a team group practice everyday where she goes back and forth teaching different students, which is more common in Russia and Asian countries.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
As for the Marina thing, she probably was referring to the system of giving private lessons for set amount of times i.e. "dividing up her time" as opposed to doing sort of a team group practice everyday where she goes back and forth teaching different students, which is more common in Russia and Asian countries.

That does make sense. We have several group class/events in our area for elite and advanced skaters that focus on specific skills. Sometimes it’s an hour of jumping and other times it may be focused on skating skills and developing them further. The majority of coaching though is done via private one on one lessons that are paid for by the hour.

As a skater I’d be happy to sit in on a group session with Eteri though. I’d take it over about any one on one lesson. Well...maybe I’d take a lesson with Yulia first :eek::
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
https://fs-gossips.com/for-tutberidze-either-you-are-among-the-leaders-or-you-are-nowhere/
I dont know if this is posted, but an interview with Polina Shuboderova, former Eteri's skater.

From the interview:

When I just came to the group, I had an injury, I didn’t know which one and I didn’t tell anyone. It was very painful for me, I could not even wear a sneaker, my toes were blue. But I still jumped, and … it healed itself. In Eteri Tutberidze’s group they say about injuries when it’s something serious, but such minor ones, well they just train with them. Although in America you would have been taken to the hospital and got a month of rest.

It is said that there are also strict requirements for weight. How to keep it? Special diet?[/B][/B]

– No. Just weighing every day, you have to right to miss it, just like training. At exactly the same time except for your day off. Your weight can deviate a maximum of 200 grams.....

She is a very strict coach. She was fine with how I progressed. But then … At the training camp in Novogorsk, I got another injury, my heel ached. I still skated, jumped. Could not get out of the rink to put the ice. Every day it was harder to talk with Eteri Georgievna, it seemed she wasn’t interested in working with me. I recovered and came, but she sent me to the younger group with the words: “We’ll see, decide for yourself where you will go, but in principle you can quit.” I actually needed half a year to get her attention . Of course, I gave up.

The younger group wasn’t for small kids, but for those who are just not interesting for her. Including senior skaters. For me it was a disaster. She could miss the trainings of this group. After perfect run-throughs, she could say something like: “Well, in principle, you still can skate.” And when I failed something, it was the end.
reading this interview was fascinating and that Polina girl is one tough cookie like I surmise all of the Russian kids are. A lot is expected of them from their coaches and their parents and they skate even through injuries.
 

Happy Skates

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 18, 2019
That does make sense. We have several group class/events in our area for elite and advanced skaters that focus on specific skills. Sometimes it’s an hour of jumping and other times it may be focused on skating skills and developing them further. The majority of coaching though is done via private one on one lessons that are paid for by the hour.

As a skater I’d be happy to sit in on a group session with Eteri though. I’d take it over about any one on one lesson. Well...maybe I’d take a lesson with Yulia first :eek::

Oh yeah for sure, I remember doing a group class for skating skills when I was a competitive skater, but in Russia I'm pretty sure the entire day is one big "group lesson" in the sense that the coaches are kind of working with them all the entire time, and they don't really work in private lessons other than for choreo. Its like that interview where Brian Orser mentioned that working in private lessons for a half hour a day was very new to Evgenia because she had only every done the big group lessons that lasted the entire sessions and where she was told what to do all the time. Its interesting how the two different systems work, and I'm not even sure which works better or which I would rather do. You've got to be so disciplined to practice on your own the American way, but I guess its also more fun to be able to do what you want all of the time.
 

SnowWhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 30, 2016
Country
Canada
Oh yeah for sure, I remember doing a group class for skating skills when I was a competitive skater, but in Russia I'm pretty sure the entire day is one big "group lesson" in the sense that the coaches are kind of working with them all the entire time, and they don't really work in private lessons other than for choreo. Its like that interview where Brian Orser mentioned that working in private lessons for a half hour a day was very new to Evgenia because she had only every done the big group lessons that lasted the entire sessions and where she was told what to do all the time. Its interesting how the two different systems work, and I'm not even sure which works better or which I would rather do. You've got to be so disciplined to practice on your own the American way, but I guess its also more fun to be able to do what you want all of the time.

At first I thought that this way would be so hard to do, but then I thought of it in terms of other sports and it made more sense to me.

When I was a competitive horseback rider, I trained 6 days a week and only had lessons (sometimes in groups, sometimes individual) twice a week, except right before the competition when we'd do a 3rd lesson. The rest of the time, we worked on our own. At first, I definitely didn't push myself as hard on my own as my coach did in lessons, but I learned how to push myself just as hard on my own. And I knew how to use each ride productively and what I should be working on. And sometimes that work on my own was the most productive. The coach was still really important, but I never needed a coach to tell me what to do 24/7, because I was always taught to understand what I did in lessons and why. I think that's the benefit more than it being fun to do what you want all the time - if you train properly, you still do things you don't want to do/don't feel like doing.

Obviously these are two very different sports, and I wasn't competing at time level, but I still think it applies a little. Basically, when you're used to training with more independence, it's not really that hard - yes you have to be disciplined and take training seriously, but most people who are going to be successful in competitive sports can do that.

So I think both methods can work, it just depends on your personality, age and what you're used to.
 

Happy Skates

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 18, 2019
At first I thought that this way would be so hard to do, but then I thought of it in terms of other sports and it made more sense to me.

When I was a competitive horseback rider, I trained 6 days a week and only had lessons (sometimes in groups, sometimes individual) twice a week, except right before the competition when we'd do a 3rd lesson. The rest of the time, we worked on our own. At first, I definitely didn't push myself as hard on my own as my coach did in lessons, but I learned how to push myself just as hard on my own. And I knew how to use each ride productively and what I should be working on. And sometimes that work on my own was the most productive. The coach was still really important, but I never needed a coach to tell me what to do 24/7, because I was always taught to understand what I did in lessons and why. I think that's the benefit more than it being fun to do what you want all the time - if you train properly, you still do things you don't want to do/don't feel like doing.

Obviously these are two very different sports, and I wasn't competing at time level, but I still think it applies a little. Basically, when you're used to training with more independence, it's not really that hard - yes you have to be disciplined and take training seriously, but most people who are going to be successful in competitive sports can do that.

So I think both methods can work, it just depends on your personality, age and what you're used to.

It just depends on the person. When I was a figure skater, practicing on my own didn't always go so well lol. But I'm sure thats not the experience that everyone has. I do think that you have to be a certain type of person to do it though. And there are some people who are hard workers when they are told exactly what to do, but not when they have to decide to work on there own, and maybe vice versa.
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
I think she probably does skew towards giving more attention towards the students who have more success/potential, but this makes sense, I mean, you're going to give more attention to Zagitova about to go to worlds than someone like Morisi. As for the Marina thing, she probably was referring to the system of giving private lessons for set amount of times i.e. "dividing up her time" as opposed to doing sort of a team group practice everyday where she goes back and forth teaching different students, which is more common in Russia and Asian countries.

One of the main features of Eteri's group is that everyone has success/potential (at least among girls) :)
Of course I presume that during preparations for importat competitions some particular skater has a priority (like before worlds Alina and Lilbet had), I meant that just from the fact that someone is a "world champion" he won't enjoy special treatment.

Also, as there was a talk about differences between Eteri and TCC. One of the main differences is that an hour in Khrustalnyi costs about 4$, an hour in TCC costs about 100$ :devil:
 

Fluture

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 26, 2018
One of the main features of Eteri's group is that everyone has success/potential (at least among girls) :)

I would suggest reading Polina Shuboderova‘s interview. No, not every girl has success and those who don‘t or those who Eteri doesn‘t perceive as having potential anymore will be shown her disinterest very clearly. Either you make it and are strong enough to endure what training in her group means for you, or you don‘t. Probably, that‘s the case of elite sport. But it‘s not like Eteri has only Sasha‘s and Alina‘s running around in her group. There is that second group of students who she didn‘t exactly expel but doesn‘t exactly spend time on either.

Which is understandable in a way. She has reached a level where she can choose what students to spend time on freely. And if you have a group of future/current champions, you‘re going to spend time on them, rather on those who you know will likely never have the same potential as others.
 

Stavr

Spectator
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Fluture;2396439 There is that second group of students who she didn‘t exactly expel but doesn‘t exactly spend time on either. [/QUOTE said:
yeah, cool story, here Polina S. 05.01.16 with the "loser group" and i quote her "The younger group wasn’t for small kids, but for those who are just not interesting for her. Including senior skaters." https://pp.userapi.com/c629306/v629306608/323d5/rWIn3ZRvRk4.jpg like Anna Shcherbakova (russian novice champion 3 months after) and Alina Zagitova (training for 2016 jr nats and JGP debut 8 months after) :palmf:
 

LenaRadiFan

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
yeah, cool story, here Polina S. 05.01.16 with the "loser group" and i quote her "The younger group wasn’t for small kids, but for those who are just not interesting for her. Including senior skaters." https://pp.userapi.com/c629306/v629306608/323d5/rWIn3ZRvRk4.jpg like Anna Shcherbakova (russian novice champion 3 months after) and Alina Zagitova (training for 2016 jr nats and JGP debut 8 months after) :palmf:
We do not know if Anna and Alina were interesting for Eteri at that point, three months is a long time and we don't know if that first place was a surprise for Eteri.
 

Deripashka

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 31, 2018
Stavr: I wouldnt jump into conclusions based on one photo. Frankly, I think Polina is trustworthy source of informations about how it works inside Khrustalnyj. Anyway, I dont see it as a problem since Eteri leads an elite group of skaters there. Its same as Vaganova academy in ballet or any other highly specialized institution. Skaters there have to meet very high and strict demands and if they dont (they physically or mentally cant, or just training system in Eteri group dont fit them), theres simply no space for them, especially not in environment of russian girls figure skating, wheres its dozen of another girls waiting on their chance to get spot in Eteri group.
Its hard to girls like Polina and I wish for her success on international competition level, she deserve it for being a fighter.
 

silveruskate

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 20, 2019
yeah, cool story, here Polina S. 05.01.16 with the "loser group" and i quote her "The younger group wasn’t for small kids, but for those who are just not interesting for her. Including senior skaters." https://pp.userapi.com/c629306/v629306608/323d5/rWIn3ZRvRk4.jpg like Anna Shcherbakova (russian novice champion 3 months after) and Alina Zagitova (training for 2016 jr nats and JGP debut 8 months after) :palmf:

I think both can be true at the same time. Anna was 12, and both Anna and Alina were facing injuries during that time or just before weren't they? That could be why they were there. You're incredibly uncharitable as Shuboderova was nothing but magnanimous in her praise for Eteri, even saying at the end that it was her fault she didn't progress. Some senior skaters with lower potential could be placed there along with promising young talents, and I'm sure it is possible for some to get out of that group. It's understandable that you should have to earn your time with Eteri by showing commitment to progress in your work through training. It's obvious that most young skaters have success/potential but in the end it is also obvious that some have more than others. There is no controversy here.
 

Fluture

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 26, 2018
yeah, cool story, here Polina S. 05.01.16 with the "loser group" and i quote her "The younger group wasn’t for small kids, but for those who are just not interesting for her. Including senior skaters." https://pp.userapi.com/c629306/v629306608/323d5/rWIn3ZRvRk4.jpg like Anna Shcherbakova (russian novice champion 3 months after) and Alina Zagitova (training for 2016 jr nats and JGP debut 8 months after) :palmf:

Well, she probably puts students in the first group if they show more success/progress than what she expected. I don‘t know about Anna but I think we all know Alina‘s story. From the small girl with the broken arm who was expelled by Eteri only to be taken back to becoming Olympic Champion. So, I would suspect that Alina was indeed among this second group.

I don’t know how exactly this works but from what we’ve heard from her students, Alina, Polina... she does expel students if she isn’t happy with them or just doesn’t spend a lot of time on them. In general, I think it‘s fairly obvious that a coach with as many students as Eteri cannot spend an equal amount of time on everyone. So, she‘s probably focusing more on the ones who are most likely to succeed. Which is exactly this first group Polina mentioned. That’s the thing the post I quoted disagreed on. That there are no less successful, or at least, less talented students in Eteri’s group. Well, there are and they just don’t get as much time with her personally and probably have to work twice as much to get her attention. Some do and end up having success (Alina for example) and others don‘t. That‘s the game. Eteri‘s such a popular coach, she can choose among the most talented who to spend time on.
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
I think both can be true at the same time. Anna was 12, and both Anna and Alina were facing injuries during that time or just before weren't they? That could be why they were there. You're incredibly uncharitable as Shuboderova was nothing but magnanimous in her praise for Eteri, even saying at the end that it was her fault she didn't progress. Some senior skaters with lower potential could be placed there along with promising young talents, and I'm sure it is possible for some to get out of that group. It's understandable that you should have to earn your time with Eteri by showing commitment to progress in your work through training. It's obvious that most young skaters have success/potential but in the end it is also obvious that some have more than others. There is no controversy here.

The way Polina described it was kinda dramatic though... she said it as if she got downgraded to some absurdly low-level skater group,
where in fact that group included Eteri's daughter Diana, Alina, Anna and Daria Panenkova - that's not like all those girls were in a "no hope" group.
So I do feel like Polina was probably an impressionable young girl and spoke from the feelings she had at that very moment, but it appears to me she might have said some things with a slight exaggeration.

By the way, Eteri often speaks things as she sees it, there was also a video where she told her own daughter Diana that she should quit singles, and she also added smth like:
"I mean, look at me... did I become a failed person after quitting? I quit singles too, then did some ice dance and ... but I actually did not achieve anything there too" (this part is a joke, but I can't translate it properly, also, writing by memory)
And let's be real, Diana is much better off as an ice dancer.
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
I would suggest reading Polina Shuboderova‘s interview. No, not every girl has success and those who don‘t or those who Eteri doesn‘t perceive as having potential anymore will be shown her disinterest very clearly. Either you make it and are strong enough to endure what training in her group means for you, or you don‘t. Probably, that‘s the case of elite sport. But it‘s not like Eteri has only Sasha‘s and Alina‘s running around in her group. There is that second group of students who she didn‘t exactly expel but doesn‘t exactly spend time on either.

Which is understandable in a way. She has reached a level where she can choose what students to spend time on freely. And if you have a group of future/current champions, you‘re going to spend time on them, rather on those who you know will likely never have the same potential as others.

You speak about trials, thats a different story. Of those who were for some time in the group practically everyone had a potential, at least those I'm aware of. The trial period is about if the skater can make use of it and of course the team also has to find a way to the skater and to give him a motivation. But practically everyone who succesfully went through this period (sometimes with the help of flowers like Alina :) ), made some success both nationally and internationally, and I dare to say the rate of success is significantly higher than with other teams. Not like one or two on the top and then the rest nearly unknowh to public. Now even people not so familiar with skating have heard names of seniors, juniors, novice (at least in my circle of acquaintances, where they heard those names from me :devil:). Results in innern competitions like Russian cup are now quoted due to those girls. Many people expect how girls like Kamila, Maya, Darya, Alyona the 2nd will skate internationally next season. Formerly names of skaters who didn't even enter juniors yet were nearly unknown to wider public even in the circle of FS fans, now some of them are known well, due to teir success. Not only success by medals but also by performances.
That is what I've meant by success/potential.
 

Stavr

Spectator
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Frankly, I think Polina is trustworthy source of informations about how it works inside Khrustalnyj.

Of course she was, the whole FSO was in a pool of tears when she left. Or maybe the whole interview is just a piece of the PR campaign (with the name Tutberidze in the headline) brought to you by the Perm region Fed (president Dmitry Alexandrovich Shuboderov) like the recent "TAT tournament" and the new Morozov (coincidentally) announced now based in Perm couple Stolbova/Novoselov https://www.permnews.ru/novosti/spo...va_budet_gotovitsya_k_olimpiade-2022_v_permi/ who knows... :shrug:
 

Vandevska

U don't have to build the end of the world out it.
Medalist
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Also, as there was a talk about differences between Eteri and TCC. One of the main differences is that an hour in Khrustalnyi costs about 4$, an hour in TCC costs about 100$ :devil:

You talk about putting a fire out, and yet you pour more gasoline on it :laugh2:
 

LenaRadiFan

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 8, 2018
One of the main features of Eteri's group is that everyone has success/potential (at least among girls) :)
Of course I presume that during preparations for importat competitions some particular skater has a priority (like before worlds Alina and Lilbet had), I meant that just from the fact that someone is a "world champion" he won't enjoy special treatment.

Also, as there was a talk about differences between Eteri and TCC. One of the main differences is that an hour in Khrustalnyi costs about 4$, an hour in TCC costs about 100$ [emoji317]
I mean russia has state funded sport [emoji14] and didn't Eteri at one point say that actually in america students value the ice timr more because they pay for it? And don't take their time with everything?
 
Top