2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

lusterfan said:

However with this year, 3A have the clear base value advantage. If they land everything, it would take a lot of outright suspicious moves to rob them of a spot (should they be the clear Top 3). Now if they make enough mistakes, favor could swing to Alina/Zhenya/Liza, but at least it will be mostly in their hands to skate their best for the spots.

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Even with the 3A's base value advantage, I think it is more likely than not that one of Alina/Zhenya/Liza makes the team, along with two of Sasha, Anna, and Alena. Statistically, at least one of the former world champions should skate great, and one of the three fresh seniors will probably underperform. Sasha looks to be 3-4 falls ahead of Zhenya and Liza, but Anna is very much reliant on her two quads to make the podium. Also, while Alena's 3A has looked great in competition, it's not always the case in practice, so she also needs to succeed with the great risk she takes. Having said that, the 3A are the most likely podium finishers if everyone in the competition skates well.

drivingmissdaisy said:

Even with the 3A's base value advantage, I think it is more likely than not that one of Alina/Zhenya/Liza makes the team, along with two of Sasha, Anna, and Alena. Statistically, at least one of the former world champions should skate great, and one of the three fresh seniors will probably underperform. Sasha looks to be 3-4 falls ahead of Zhenya and Liza, but Anna is very much reliant on her two quads to make the podium. Also, while Alena's 3A has looked great in competition, it's not always the case in practice, so she also needs to succeed with the great risk she takes. Having said that, the 3A are the most likely podium finishers if everyone in the competition skates well.

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I agree! I have a feeling one of 3A will be left behind. I just think that compared to last year anyway, it will be more in the hands of the skater this year. If all of 3A are clean, I'm not sure RusFed can justify holding one back because their technical scores are just that much ahead. Obviously if they make mistakes, RusFed can justify a perfect Evgenia (for example) going, but at least that was partially due to 3A's mistake and not necessarily entirely politics. I don't like the politics, but it's interwoven into this sport.

If the 3A skate clean and are in top form, I don’t see why RusFed wouldn’t send them. They have the highest scoring potential and if the federation wants a world podium sweep, sending the 3A is their best shot.

Not to mention, we don’t know what will happen in the future as the girls are still growing. This season may be their best chance at world/euros medals. In this situation when none have even had a chance to skate in these competitions before, I don’t understand the argument to give other skaters a chance (if the 3A earn it with solid skates at nationals, of course).

I don't think there is any political gymnastics bendy enough to leave one of the 3A at home if they score as well as they have been doing, especially in the FS.

As long as there aren't any shock withdrawals due to illness or injury (fingers crossed on that not happening), it will be different to the previous two Nationals.

Orlov said:

I made subtitles for you for part of the video with Sonya. Here. She talked about the show Ice Age Kids. This part was a “sweet moment” in the news block about that Sonya was afraid of an interview. Sonya spoke excitedly, in a slightly trembling voice. My favorite moment is when she finished talking and shyly/hesitatingly made a sound like "uhmmm ..." I put this in subtitles too

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Orlov - Thank you so much!

Can you believe people think Zhenya should’ve won Rostelecom? They seem to have forgotten that Sasha fell on a QUAD and the hardest 3-3 (without 3A). Of course Zhenya did amazing too, if only she had done this well at Skate Canada...

ancientpeas said:

At the risk of being "that" person. What would be the benefit of not calling Anna's lutz edge (if it isn't good- I can't tell and don't want to argue about it) and her winning or getting the world birth and then having her called at Europeans and Worlds and risking it. I'm not saying call it even if it is fine but if it is a problem (again if it is a problem) then they should call it because then a) she won't be as encouraged to fix it and b) you risk sending someone is might not place as well as a person you left off who would not get those calls.

I'll put it this way so it isn't about Anna's lutz edge:
Say you had a skater who borderline UR her jumps. You don't call her UR at nationals and she goes to worlds where they do call it and your country either loses a medal or 3 spots or a chance for a podium sweep. In most countries this wouldn't be an issue because whoever is 4th or 5 is probably not capable of winning a medal but in Russian whoever is 4th or 5th could be World Champion.

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Let's take out Trusova of the equation because given her amount of quads unless she bombs GPF and Nationals or gets hurt (not wishing any!) she's pretty well a lock. That leaves us with Shcherbakova, Kostornaia, Zagitova and Medevedeva - of those 4 none of them exactly have an always definitive outside edge and Shcherbakova at least has the benefit that 2 of her lutz jumps are on the most difficult jumping passes in the field and her other 3 triple lutz jumps (2 combinations) are in the bonus section of the SP and FS, so even if she gets dinged with an unclear edge she's making out better in points on the lutz jumps than most.

ancientpeas said:

I'll put it this way so it isn't about Anna's lutz edge:
Say you had a skater who borderline UR her jumps. You don't call her UR at nationals and she goes to worlds where they do call it and your country either loses a medal or 3 spots or a chance for a podium sweep. In most countries this wouldn't be an issue because whoever is 4th or 5 is probably not capable of winning a medal but in Russian whoever is 4th or 5th could be World Champion.

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I think it depends on the skater's technical content. It's not like the Russians are the only skaters that are pulling out the difficult jumps; sending a skater without a quad or triple axel to Worlds is betting that the non-Russian skaters don't land their difficult jumps.

SkateSkates said:

If the 3A skate clean and are in top form, I don’t see why RusFed wouldn’t send them. They have the highest scoring potential and if the federation wants a world podium sweep, sending the 3A is their best shot.

Not to mention, we don’t know what will happen in the future as the girls are still growing. This season may be their best chance at world/euros medals. In this situation when none have even had a chance to skate in these competitions before, I don’t understand the argument to give other skaters a chance (if the 3A earn it with solid skates at nationals, of course).

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I agree, If Shcherbakova/Trusova/Kostornaia place 1-2-3 (in any order) at Nationals it would be ridiculous for 1 of them to get left off in favor of Zagitova or Medevedeva, it would be saying that in spite of being out-performed Zagitova or Medvedeva get a spot because of titles they've won in previous seasons.

but I can see where someone will attempt to make the argument that Zagitova or Medvedeva should be sent as a 'safety' lock, in that they have experience in big-time senior moments and aren't risking as much with the big elements that Kostornaia, Shcherbakova, and Trusova are. Then again both Zagitova and Medvedeva have had messier skates than the other 3 at this point.

Thrashergurl said:

I don’t know that I’m the original poster. I think many had stated that Anna’s costume change is attempt to deflect from her weaknesses. But to imply that as a personal bash to a skater is not a truthful statement. Many poster adore her and feel she has potential, however can see where she needs improvements. Posters can fight and argue and claim this is attacking a skater— but if her coaches don’t address the issues then she may find herself struggling.
As fans we want these skaters to improve and skate to their maximum. That’s what make last good competition. Nobody is bashing these girls and wanting them to fail.

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I agree with you except the bold part, and my post is only about that part. My words were probably too harsh and made you (or others) feel your good wishes be ignored, for that I apologize.

Lechat said:

You can’t predict, everything can happen. Alina the weakest ? Are you kidding ? It’s not because you can’t land a quad or a 3A means you are weak.

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Well said.

ancientpeas said:

I don't think it is useful for us to try and figure out exactly what was said between Eteri and Evgenia. Whatever it was and whatever happened it left bad feelings behind. I think Evgenia was 17 and was hurt and she probably felt betrayed because she was beaten not by Osmond or Kostner but by her own training mate (her younger training mate who she probably felt she was a better skater than). My feeling is that Eteri has a really hard job. On one hand she is, because she is a woman, supposed to be motherly and tender with her students and yet on the other hand she needs to drive and push them to succeed and become the best they can be. She comes across as a rather no nonsense individual. I admire her for being a strong woman in what is a largely male dominated profession. Other coaches (Brian, Mishin, Raf) have had years and years to fine tune their relationships with students. Eteri is still a young coach and I'm sure she is learning more and more everyday and improving her methods. Even Frank Carroll was still learning to be a better coach into his 60s and he coached multiple Olympic and World champions.

In my heart I hope that once the dust settles that some some sort of detente will exist between them and they can talk it out and maybe see where the other is/was coming from. It is difficult when we are teens to see adults as fallible. We expect them to know everything and have all the answers and not make mistakes and it isn't until you make some of those mistakes yourself that you realize that all we can really do is have compassion for others and try and walk in their shoes. Maybe one of them will make the first move and apologize or extend a olive branch to the other. I think that is a far better outcome for both of them than just being angry at each other forever.

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Great post all the way around peas.

flanker said:

She (and Gleb) trains with Igor Shpilband in Novi, Michigan, since this summer. Eteri visited Michigan shortly before it, probably arranging the move

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Oh that's right thank you.

I don't know what started this whole Zhenya leaving Eteri situation that again. But it's like a cat chasing its tail at this point. Neither woman has talked about this since it happened. Nor should they.

Thrashergurl said:

I don’t know that I’m the original poster. I think many had stated that Anna’s costume change is attempt to deflect from her weaknesses. But to imply that as a personal bash to a skater is not a truthful statement. Many poster adore her and feel she has potential, however can see where she needs improvements. Posters can fight and argue and claim this is attacking a skater— but if her coaches don’t address the issues then she may find herself struggling.
As fans we want these skaters to improve and skate to their maximum. That’s what make last good competition. Nobody is bashing these girls and wanting them to fail.

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You've constantly harangue Shcherbakova and has constantly reminded the posters her that her FS is gimmicky and somehow a small part of her program is the reason is why people are drawn to her performance. People are not that shallow likewise most people are not so ingenious that they could conclude such outlandish theories.

Ziotic said:

Although she may have won worlds last year, she was clean while others faltered. Just as the case when she lost the year before. Jumps are unsuccessful more frequently and being called UR or with edge problems.

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This are entirely different situations. None of her opponents at 2019 worlds has scored higher than her score and neither they have scored so far. So how exactly they faltered? You mean they have potential? You not scored with your potential but with what you deliver. So until Rika or the other medalists reach the scores of 236-238 + we cannot say that they faltered.

The year before Zagitova was winning all her competitions with higher scores than her opponents. At worlds she faltered and some other skated better and won.

Whoever thinks Medvedeva will not make or made the team just fooling themselves.

zounger said:

Whoever thinks Medvedeva will not make or made the team just fooling themselves.

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Why do you think so? Right now it looks like the team will be Alena/Anna/Alexandra, but I do believe that the federation is very invested in Alina and Evgenia as more than reliable backup. Liza, I am not so sure about; she's certainly not being given any candies by her fed, and neither is Sofia.

surimi said:

Why do you think so? Right now it looks like the team will be Alena/Anna/Alexandra, but I do believe that the federation is very invested in Alina and Evgenia as more than reliable backup. Liza, I am not so sure about; she's certainly not being given any candies by her fed, and neither is Sofia.

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I see the same signs like last season.

zounger said:

I see the same signs like last season.

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Last season they took advantage of Liza's injury and what's really odd is that fans defended them until they realized at WTT Liza would have outscored Evgenia at Worlds.

And look i'm the first to admit that Evgenia IS improving, she is on a good path now with Orser but is that enough to get a spot for Worlds already considering she will not even qualify for GPF?

Unless one of the 3As WD nationals or bomb spectacularly i don't see this possible, but hey it wouldn't be the first time they do this.

Remember when they stole Konstantin Menshov's spot because Maxim Kovtun really had to go to Worlds (even after not medalling at Nationals) in 2013?

Guys, really. Today is Evgenia's birthday. Give her a break from the criticism, at least for today.
The Russian Team selection will be a mess, I'm already dreading the fan wars that will follow.
But let's wait at first until after RusNats is over. Let's give every Russian lady a chance to prove herself worthy of being on the team before accusing them/their team of manipulation beforehand.

Remember that Billie Eilish Ex drama was at ... Alina’s birthday.
And was even worse than that.

Ziotic said:

I question this statement.

Last season Eteri had one Russian senior lady. She had been embarrassed by the breakup with Evgenia. She didn’t really have the luxury of sending Alina away without further embarrassment.

I would argue that Alina is the weakest she has ever been, only declining since winning the Olympics. Although she may have won worlds last year, she was clean while others faltered. Just as the case when she lost the year before. Jumps are unsuccessful more frequently and being called UR or with edge problems.

How is Eteri making her stronger? She’s done exactly what she did to Evgenia in the Olympic season, simplifies Alina’s jump content knowing her training mates are bring much superior technical content. Why does Alina no longer backload her combos? One more year and Alina will be in the same situation. Even if she wants to continue to compete, she’ll be buried by all those who are younger and with more technical ability.

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I have a couple points to make as I see multiple errors in what you've posted:

Alina was weaker last season because her body went through changes with puberty. All skaters go through this. Liza had a huge decline for a few years and even a technical master like Mishin couldn't bring her back to 2015 form until very recently. With Alina, we can see with test skates and Japan Open that her jumps are better than they were last season, showing that they are working to adapt her technique to her new body. At IDF, she had a sub-par performance. But this is just one competition out of 3 performances so far this season. If you're comparing to her most successful Olympic season, it also wasn't perfect; she had a bad time at IDF scoring as low as 62 in the short after multiple major errors including falls and URs. You can only say it's a worse season than her olympic season after actually seeing the results of the season. But Alina being in worse shape doesn't mean Eteri isn't helping her.

Eteri never simplified Evgenia's content in the Olympic season. In fact, the layout that Evgenia performed at the Olympic season had a BV that was the highest in her international career. She just lost to Alina who was stronger technically. Alina is now losing to others who are stronger technically. Eteri can't magically inject quads and 3As into her students; the 3A are just better jumpers currently, not because they're younger. Alina couldn't do quads and 3As at 15, and Evgenia couldn't do Alina's olympic layout at 15. They didn't have these jumps and then lost them due to growing, they never had them at all. They're different skaters with different limitations in their athleticism and this doesn't have anything to do with age or tossing older skaters aside; Eteri works with the talent she has and is not a magician.

The bolded statement not only applies to Eteri's older skaters, but to all Russian ladies. They are already buried by the 3As because they simply cannot match their difficulty. Alina, Evgenia, Liza, Stasya. Coached by Eteri, Brian, Mishin, and Chebotareva. Go back a few seasons and you'll see that Radionova, Pogorilaya, Tsurskaya, Gubanova were all buried by Alina and Evgenia's technical prowess at the time, and they all have different coaches as well.

BabySloth said:

Guys, really. Today is Evgenia's birthday. Give her a break from the criticism, at least for today.
The Russian Team selection will be a mess, I'm already dreading the fan wars that will follow.
But let's wait at first until after RusNats is over. Let's give every Russian lady a chance to prove herself worthy of being on the team before accusing them/their team of manipulation beforehand.

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Happy birthday to Zhenya! She's had an amazing first 20 years.