2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 687 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

Mishaminion

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Thank you. And Anna's "4 lutz" (hahaha) should have been downgraded. She prerotated 270 degrees. :)

Not true

Her technique is far from perfect and not as good as Sasha's and there is some pretotation but I really think you're either trolling or need your eyes testing
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Strangely, however, when it comers to quads, both men and women find the quad Lutz easier than the quad flip. Hardly anyone has a quad flip in his/her arsenal, but quad Lutzes seem to be a dime a dozen these days.

I think this may simply reflect the difference in base value. Every man or woman who wants to be competitive on the world scene has to do a 3F and 3Lz. When it comes to quads, if you're going to learn one you'd probably want to pick the one with the highest base value (assuming you're capable of it).
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
I think this may simply reflect the difference in base value. Every man or woman who wants to be competitive on the world scene has to do a 3F and 3Lz. When it comes to quads, if you're going to learn one you'd probably want to pick the one with the highest base value (assuming you're capable of it).

I don’t think skaters pick jumps to learn based on base value tbh, when it comes to quads I think it all depends whether there’s an actual ‘room’ or possibility to learn it.
They probably take the jumps where the skater is able to get the biggest height and length, as well as feel most comfortable in general.
 

SkateSkates

Medalist
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Is it possible that skaters are gravitating to the quad lutz because they spent a lot of time perfecting their triple lutz, as this is the most valuable triple and most of the top ladies use it in triple triple combos? So maybe skaters are most comfortable with the lutz because they have drilled it alone and in combo more repetitions than their other triples.

This is clearly not the case for everyone, but just a thought.
 

Happy Skates

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 18, 2019
I think this may simply reflect the difference in base value. Every man or woman who wants to be competitive on the world scene has to do a 3F and 3Lz. When it comes to quads, if you're going to learn one you'd probably want to pick the one with the highest base value (assuming you're capable of it).

I also heard an explanation somewhere that it might have to do with the pattern going into it. For a loop, skaters usually do three turns into it (I think to generate the angular momentum without using your toepick), and in a flip skaters will either do a mohawk or a three turn into it. For a lutz, a skater can just go straight down the ice and go directly into the jump. This could make doing a quad lutz preferable because soooo much more speed is needed (at least in most cases) to do a quad than to do a triple. Gaining speed is much easier when you're just skating directly backwards vs. when you have to do some sort of turn to get into the jump. And aside from gaining speed, its easier to just glide on your edge and mentally prepare for the jump than to do a turn beforehand where the timing could easily be messed up. And this is especially important for quads because as Anna Shcherbakova said, most skaters at this level are so accustomed to the timing of a triple jump that it is second nature and doing some complicated pattern into it (or even just a three turn or mohawk) isn't a problem. However for a quad, they have to be so exact with their timing, and that often times timing is what messes them up. Because of this, doing a loop jump or a flip jump that requires a specific pattern going in other than just a straight line could be more difficult than a lutz, at least for a quad. Salchows and toeloops also require specific patterns, but they are rotationally easier which is probably why we see salchows, toeloops, and lutzes most often for quads.
 

SkateSkates

Medalist
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I get that, but as a counter argument, if a skater doesn’t have the basic fundamental skating skills to execute simple turns like 3 turns and mowhawks at full speed, should they even be doing quads?
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I get that, but as a counter argument, if a skater doesn’t have the basic fundamental skating skills to execute simple turns like 3 turns and mowhawks at full speed, should they even be doing quads?

There's a difference between doing these turns at full speed and doing them at full speed into a quad jump. The three turns into a 3Lo is considered a difficult entrance, but three turns by themselves aren't especially impressive.
 

SnowWhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 30, 2016
Country
Canada
I'm only sorry that there is no "ignore" button on this forum:bed:

There is. If you click on a users name, there is an option that says "view profile" (or if you right click and open it in a new tab, you go straight to their profile page). Click that, and there is a button on the left bar that says "add to ignore list".
 

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Not true

Her technique is far from perfect and not as good as Sasha's and there is some pretotation but I really think you're either trolling or need your eyes testing

I actually think for the most part Anna's 4lutz is better than Sasha's, if you look at the good ones from both.

Alexandra keeps changing edge to gain momentum, and the position in the air is not as straight as her other quads, Anna's 4lutz also looks bigger.

Strangely, however, when it comes to quads, both men and women find the quad Lutz easier than the quad flip. Hardly anyone has a quad flip in his/her arsenal, but quad Lutzes seem to be a dime a dozen these days.

That has to do with the entrance, with the flip the moment you turn you lose a lot of speed and that's where you should rotate 4 times in the air.

The best entrance i can think that could work for a quad flip, is the one Kaetlyn Osmond has where you do some turn before on two feet.
 

GS Forum Staff

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Hello posters in the Russian Ladies' thread!

A new thread has been started:

2019 Judging and Tech Calls Discussion

Please conduct discussions of judging as related to ladies who skate for other countries, or general discussions of judging and tech calls, in the Judging and Tech Calls thread. Of course, you can always conduct general discussions and discussions of other countries' skaters related to specific competitions in the Competition Chat subform, or, after the competition is over, in the threads opened in the Edge for that purpose.

Posts which are more appropriate for these other threads may be moved, so that this thread can stay on topic of the 2019-20 Russian Ladies.

Thank you!
 

Happy Skates

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 18, 2019
I get that, but as a counter argument, if a skater doesn’t have the basic fundamental skating skills to execute simple turns like 3 turns and mowhawks at full speed, should they even be doing quads?

I never said they don't have the basic fundamental skating skills to execute those turns . Obviously all elite skaters at that level do. The problems are mainly with timing and gaining that amount of speed with turns. With timing, it doesn't matter how good your skating skills are, a three turn or mohawk is still more likely to mess up your timing than just skating into it. And with quads, since they have to be so precise, timing is everything. And for the speed thing, of course these skaters can do them at full speed, its just that for anyone it will be easier to gain that insane amount of speed without doing them. Most skaters going into these jumps get so fast so that they can get the power needed to go so high, and even if you have to best skating skills, you're always going to be able to get even faster by plain skating. And the faster you get, the easier it is to get a big jump.
 

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam
Medalist
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Wow to Akatieva!! I LOVE her back and posture and carriage. Wasn't much a fan earlier this year, but wow she has improved so much!! Amazing. There seemed to be a controversy about her SP today where she initially got no credit for her combo. Which made no sense, because even if she had a 2a-3t(R) she would have been within the rules, right? Did they just not know that any female skater below senior if they have a 3a that those skaters only HAVE to put it in combination?? These technical rules are bogus. Total bull droppings. It's a shame that she was born seven days too late to at least be on the Junior circuit next year. At least she was always going to be ineligible for 2022 Olympics, because I'd be pissed if I lost an Olympic spot because I was born seven days too late to compete. Alas, alack.
 

Mishaminion

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Seems silly to have 3A only permitted in SP if included in the combination. This rule was changed for seniors a few years ago and I don't see why it shouldn't be for juniors. The number of skaters with a 3A is larger than those with a quad and rising faster too.
 

Happy Skates

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 18, 2019
It's a shame that she was born seven days too late to at least be on the Junior circuit next year. At least she was always going to be ineligible for 2022 Olympics, because I'd be pissed if I lost an Olympic spot because I was born seven days too late to compete. Alas, alack.
I know right! imagine a Valieva-Samodelkina-Akatieva-Liu showdown on the JGP. I guess we'll still have a tough fight, but Akatieva would've made it even more tough. A real shame. Her 3A is a beauty imo. I don't know if it's how tiny she is, but the jump looks nice and big to me. It looked small when the first video of it surfaced, but now it looks big. I hope she'll finally land that 4t tomorrow. Its interesting how quickly her 3A became consistent (I believe she's fallen once out of what, 8 tries?), but that her 4t is taking more time. Of course thats no big deal though, look how long Sasha took to get that 4S down, and now look at her.

Zhilina also did a good short program. She really nailed that 3Lz+3t. Its really nice to see improvement in that department because last year she was struggling to land her triple triples. Its amazing what one summer can do. Its kind of the same thing with Akatieva - she used to be so inconsistent on triples (think Ice Age Kids for both of them), and now she seems to be at Trusova/Kostornaia levels of triple consistency. Anyways, I wonder if Zhilina will attempt either quad in the fp tomorrow?
 

DenissVFan

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
IMO 3 of Liza, Zhenya, Stastya and Sofia will get Golden Spin. They'll deserve it. It's just a pity RusFed wasted so many spots across many events, most notably at Nebelhorn. They're not making it easy to get out of Russia for 180-200 points skaters. Even a former World silver medalist Leonova can't get a Challenger.

As I expected, Liza, Sofia and Stasya got Golden Spin.
 

Vilord

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 9, 2015
Country
Sweden
Wow to Akatieva!! I LOVE her back and posture and carriage. Wasn't much a fan earlier this year, but wow she has improved so much!! Amazing. There seemed to be a controversy about her SP today where she initially got no credit for her combo. Which made no sense, because even if she had a 2a-3t(R) she would have been within the rules, right? Did they just not know that any female skater below senior if they have a 3a that those skaters only HAVE to put it in combination?? These technical rules are bogus. Total bull droppings. It's a shame that she was born seven days too late to at least be on the Junior circuit next year. At least she was always going to be ineligible for 2022 Olympics, because I'd be pissed if I lost an Olympic spot because I was born seven days too late to compete. Alas, alack.

I assume this was the comp you where refering to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRRJenAqeC0
Do you have protocols for it? and what comp is it and when is the free?
I also Love Sofia A and think it would be really unfair if she didnt get any credit for doing 3A+3T in the short. But mabye you cant in russian novice comps?
 

Decoder

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 5, 2019
Wow to Akatieva!! I LOVE her back and posture and carriage. Wasn't much a fan earlier this year, but wow she has improved so much!! Amazing. There seemed to be a controversy about her SP today where she initially got no credit for her combo. Which made no sense, because even if she had a 2a-3t(R) she would have been within the rules, right? Did they just not know that any female skater below senior if they have a 3a that those skaters only HAVE to put it in combination?? These technical rules are bogus. Total bull droppings. It's a shame that she was born seven days too late to at least be on the Junior circuit next year. At least she was always going to be ineligible for 2022 Olympics, because I'd be pissed if I lost an Olympic spot because I was born seven days too late to compete. Alas, alack.

At the Russian Cup Stage 1, she did 3A but failed, and got an SP score of 59.67. At the second stage, she didn't do 3A and got 70.55. This time when I saw the score 70.87, I thought she skipped 3A again. What a nice try! She has been pretty stable with her 3A in LP though.
 
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