2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 1211 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

BabySloth

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Country
Hungary
i think they should have waited as long as they could to cancel IMO. a lot of skaters are getting back to training or have done so already and they can hold JGPs without an audience pretty easily. i think it could have been doable.

I think international travel and restrictions could be a bigger problem. The JGP usually doesn't have much audience anyway. And maybe money problems. I mean Skate Canada probably lost a LOT by the Worlds cancellation. (this is just my take though)
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
I still hope JGP would take place, either later in the season or in some modified version. or that some country with better situation could take over the competitions cancelled. Hope dies last :)

A lot of skaters awaits their debut, others need that to consolidate their position or to prepare themselves for other competitions (junior worlds or even senior competitions, if there would be any :) ).
 

Thrashergurl

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Even the parents noted that the girls don’t like being called 3A. I think this is very telling. They are not skating for a team or Eteriforprogress. They are individuals and want to be seen as such.

I also think Kamila will be fine with PCS. Don’t forget Alina’s scores her debut, and Kamila really is more talented at this point. However, I hope she doesn’t continue her trend of repeating programs. It’s time for something new
 

sparklestan

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
I also really want the JGP to take place, but I don’t see how it could happen with all of the travel restrictions :sad21:
I’m really looking forward to Adelia’s debut and seeing Kamila again :)
 

Fluture

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 26, 2018
I wanted to comment on the interview with Anna‘s parents because I thought it was one of the most interesting by skating parents, ever. They seem like wonderful, supportive and intelligent people.

For one, it showed the sacrifices entire families have to make for a sports career. But also, why it might be worth trying. I liked that, throughout the whole interview I got the impression that they did it primarily because Anna wanted this, not because they thought it was particularly important or necessary. So often I have read interviews where skaters literally said that their parents never made it big in sports so they‘re living their dream. This sounds nice in theory but I think it‘s also quite dangerous, since ultimately, it should be the child‘s choice. (or the other way round: I made it big in sports so my child should become a star too. Which is just...yikes) So it was good to see that this wasn‘t the case with Anna‘s parents. And I think it shows, too. She really seems to genuinely love skating.

I especially liked the point they made about the Olympics - that careers don‘t only revolve around them, even though they‘re a big spectacle whenever they happen.

“I respect the athletes who were able to build a long career and gain a name there.“

I like this quote by Anna‘s father because it shows what I think, too. Especially in the Russian ladies field where we have so many talented girls, it will be impossible for all of them to get the Olympic Gold. I think there‘s more to figure skating, more to any sport, than the Olympics. They‘re important, yes. Olympic Gold is important, it’s the biggest medal, everyone wants it. But it’s not everything. It doesn’t define a sportsperson and it doesn’t define an entire career. I hope that whoever of Anna, Aliona, Sasha, Kamila, Daria and the others doesn‘t win Gold, will remember this.

Which brings me to the next point: The comment Anna‘s father made about longevity. It made me SO happy to read this. Figure skating IS art. It‘s a sport, sure, but it‘s also about expression and emotions and stories told by thin blades on ice. And some stories just aren‘t ready to be told at 17. For some you need life experiences and victories and losses and all the exciting and scary feelings that come along with growing older and maturing. I get the point Anna‘s mother made, too. Of course it‘s not bad to get new experiences at 17, 18, to get out of the bubble of elite sport. But in the end, kids like Anna chose their sport deliberately. It‘s their dream, their passion. This isn‘t like school, where you graduate and then you go on to different parts of life, at least I don‘t think it is for many. It‘s not about winning as medals many as you can in a short amount of time and then leaving. I feel like this happens in the ladies field a lot and of course - everyone has the right to choose their own path. But it doesn‘t change that I, as a fan, often feel sad of the artistic growth and stories we were deprived of seeing. Unfinished song indeed.

And since I see Anna as an artist (which her dad emphasized too), it makes me hope that she will find the motivation to stay for a long, long time. She would need a serious reworking of her technique, at some point, I‘m pretty certain of that. But nothing that can‘t be done, right?

However, I do have to say that I disagree with them, too. Like when Anna‘s father mentioned the Team Tutberidze “jumping competitions“ in training. This in part probably explains why they‘re so mentally tough, they are used to this competitive environment from a very young age. But I couldn’t help but think about the “older“ (or injured) skaters and what something like that could do to them. Of course, as a young gun with quads, it‘s exciting and cool. But if you‘re struggling to get your triples consistent because you have to deal with puberty/injury, being included in a competition like this and told that “you let the team down“ must be a horrible feeling. Mentally, I think such a “fun“ little competition can become detrimental and toxic quite quickly, especially if done daily, like in the off-season. And especially if you‘re recovering and essentially constantly being beaten by those who are younger than you. I can only imagine how it must be for an established senior skater to lose to a 12 year old novice...

But all in all, this was a wonderful interview and it‘s relieving to hear Anna has such a good support system at home.
 

Fluture

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 26, 2018
I also really want the JGP to take place, but I don’t see how it could happen with all of the travel restrictions :sad21:
I’m really looking forward to Adelia’s debut and seeing Kamila again :)

Yes, I am also less and less hopeful about the JGP. Two have been canceled already... How would this work with calculations for the final? Alas...

But I would be devastated if I didn‘t get to see little Adelia‘s JGP debut. And of course it would be sad for the other juniors, too. :(
 

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
I don't know how true this is. In Alina's first season she was already getting 75 in PCS points, which is a bit ridiculous to me. If the judges want they can give Kamila any PCS points that they want.

Exactly, Alina got insanely high PCS scores right from the start in seniors even keeping the same free program from juniors, which to me was a big mistake but it worked so why bother? Wakaba Higuchi lost to Zagitova even in components at Cup of China despite having far more difficulty choreography in her Bond FP especially comparing the two steps sequence.

All Valieva (or any of these girls) need is consistency and an higher technical difficulty than the other girls, the rest it seems it doesn't matter.
 

icestorm

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 23, 2019
Exactly, Alina got insanely high PCS scores right from the start in seniors even keeping the same free program from juniors, which to me was a big mistake but it worked so why bother? Wakaba Higuchi lost to Zagitova even in components at Cup of China despite having far more difficulty choreography in her Bond FP especially comparing the two steps sequence.

All Valieva (or any of these girls) need is consistency and an higher technical difficulty than the other girls, the rest it seems it doesn't matter.

No, Higuchi's overall PCS was higher than Zagitova's (100,74 > 99,78). Alina could surpass her only because all of her jumps were backloaded both in SP and FS.

And since then Higuchi who couldn't win anything in her career is a paragon of PCS? She was just regular second year senior. Zagitova was JWC and in her first senior season won more golden medals than Higuchi in her all seasons.

Everybody need consistency and an higher technical difficulty to win. But besides that Valieva (I don't know who "any of these girls" are) has the best spins in busyness, mesmerizing artistry, great posture and flexibilty, and iconic programs and choreography.
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
Exactly, Alina got insanely high PCS scores right from the start in seniors even keeping the same free program from juniors, which to me was a big mistake but it worked so why bother? Wakaba Higuchi lost to Zagitova even in components at Cup of China despite having far more difficulty choreography in her Bond FP especially comparing the two steps sequence.

All Valieva (or any of these girls) need is consistency and an higher technical difficulty than the other girls, the rest it seems it doesn't matter.

The progress of Alina's PCS during the olympic season, FS:
Lombardia 67.52
Cup of China: 68.35
IdF: 69.54
GPF: 70.42
Euros: 75.30
Olympics-team: 75.02
Olympics-individual: 75.03

This is definitely not getting "insanely high PCS scores from the start in seniors". First, it used to be a custom not to reward juniors with higher components than 8 (this "rule" was broken for the first time by Aliona at JGPF 2018 :) ). So the problem wasn't receiving higer score in seniors rather like getting lower score in juniors. Alina received 62.21 at junior worlds, so she received 5 more points in seniors, but that's nothing unusual. Evgenia Medvedeva, for instance, received 59.21 at her last junior worlds and 67.16 at her first senior GP event. 8 points increase. Is that insanely high? ;)

Second, through the GP events, Alina's PCS rose normally as her performance got better. Big increase was just between GPF and Europeans, and completely deservedly, because the quality Alina has shown there and at Olympics a month later was astounding from the perspective of interpretation, perfect tempo synchronized completely with the music, expression etc.
 

VenusHalley

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
How would they even hold JGPs with all the testing and quarantining? Even the GP. Unless there is a vaccine or that thing miraculously dies off... we are in for new normal.

I mean, the Olympics has been postponed. And now there is some dire talk how it might be even cancelled. And the winter Olympics is supposed to be in country that caused this pandemic and failed to purposedly hid information about the virus. Should we really trust them to be able to ensure safety of the winter olympics?
 

Happy Skates

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 18, 2019
However, I hope she doesn’t continue her trend of repeating programs. It’s time for something new

I think that repeating Picasso was an exception rather than a trend. The program was so received and special that it would have been a shame if it hadn't been performed internationally. But I'm sure they'll do new programs for next season, and I'm super excited to see their choices. @Team Tutberidze, please start to post music selections soon :pray:.
 

mdl

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
The progress of Alina's PCS during the olympic season, FS:
Lombardia 67.52
Cup of China: 68.35
IdF: 69.54
GPF: 70.42
Euros: 75.30
Olympics-team: 75.02
Olympics-individual: 75.03

This is definitely not getting "insanely high PCS scores from the start in seniors". First, it used to be a custom not to reward juniors with higher components than 8 (this "rule" was broken for the first time by Aliona at JGPF 2018 :) ). So the problem wasn't receiving higer score in seniors rather like getting lower score in juniors. Alina received 62.21 at junior worlds, so she received 5 more points in seniors, but that's nothing unusual. Evgenia Medvedeva, for instance, received 59.21 at her last junior worlds and 67.16 at her first senior GP event. 8 points increase. Is that insanely high? ;)

Second, through the GP events, Alina's PCS rose normally as her performance got better. Big increase was just between GPF and Europeans, and completely deservedly, because the quality Alina has shown there and at Olympics a month later was astounding from the perspective of interpretation, perfect tempo synchronized completely with the music, expression etc.

if we compare last Junior to first Senior competition, indeed Zhenya increased with 7.95 compared to Alina's 5.31.
However, in her first senior season, Zhenya 's scores increased with 5.18 - gradually from 67.16 to 72.34.
Alina's - with 7.51 from 67.52 to 75.03 with very sharp jump after the GPF - with 4.88/ 4.6 for EC/ OG compared to GPF; after that she never achieved such PCs.
 

brakes

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 31, 2020
This is my prediction to quote and gloat in 2026. :agree:

I'm a devoted fan of Anna Shcherbakova, so I think she'll have the longest and very successful carreer of them all. The only girl I see surpassing her is Sofia Akatieva (interestingly, these are two fastest rotaters in the world atm.). I'm not saying they will win Olympics, because there are too many factors involved in such quadrennial event, but I see them on a very top for relatively long time.

See you in six years. :thank:
 

renebaebae

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
if we compare last Junior to first Senior competition, indeed Zhenya increased with 7.95 compared to Alina's 5.31.
However, in her first senior season, Zhenya 's scores increased with 5.18 - gradually from 67.16 to 72.34.
Alina's - with 7.51 from 67.52 to 75.03 with very sharp jump after the GPF - with 4.88/ 4.6 for EC/ OG compared to GPF; after that she never achieved such PCs.
It is clear that they just wanted Alina to win the Olympics that she was gifted those PCS points. The exact same thing happened in the past to Adelina being gifted over a 10 points increase over her season's average in the FS and 5 points in the SP. The same can happen to Kamila or anyone for that matter, they can use PCS points to crown the winner. Although it will become more difficult in the next Olympics because of the insanely high BV of the quads and 3A so it may not make that much of an impact as it did in the last one.
 

voolfee

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
I don't know how true this is. In Alina's first season she was already getting 75 in PCS points, which is a bit ridiculous to me. If the judges want they can give Kamila any PCS points that they want.

For me Zhenya’s 38.4 and 77.5 for PCS in Olympics was ridiculous. What about them?

if we compare last Junior to first Senior competition, indeed Zhenya increased with 7.95 compared to Alina's 5.31.
However, in her first senior season, Zhenya 's scores increased with 5.18 - gradually from 67.16 to 72.34.
Alina's - with 7.51 from 67.52 to 75.03 with very sharp jump after the GPF - with 4.88/ 4.6 for EC/ OG compared to GPF; after that she never achieved such PCs.

What are you talking about? Zhenya's PCS increased in her first senior season from 58.4 to 72.34 in just 2 months. This is a world record that will probably be eternal. In the Olympic season PCS grows in all skaters. It's normal that Alina no longer achieved 75 points for PCS. Alina fully deserved PCS she received at the Olympics for her amazing programs and outstanding performances. I don’t understand why people here belittle Alina's excellence demonstrated at the Olympics?
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
if we compare last Junior to first Senior competition, indeed Zhenya increased with 7.95 compared to Alina's 5.31.
However, in her first senior season, Zhenya 's scores increased with 5.18 - gradually from 67.16 to 72.34.
Alina's - with 7.51 from 67.52 to 75.03 with very sharp jump after the GPF - with 4.88/ 4.6 for EC/ OG compared to GPF; after that she never achieved such PCs.

It is clear that they just wanted Alina to win the Olympics that she was gifted those PCS points. The exact same thing happened in the past to Adelina being gifted over a 10 points increase over her season's average in the FS and 5 points in the SP. The same can happen to Kamila or anyone for that matter, they can use PCS points to crown the winner. Although it will become more difficult in the next Olympics because of the insanely high BV of the quads and 3A so it may not make that much of an impact as it did in the last one.

First Zhena's senior season wasn't the olympic one, right? Zhenya and Alina even didn't compete each other at 2015/2016 season, right? It's unworthy to create a "complot" about "they wanted Alina to win" by comparing Zhenya's PCS from 2016 Worlds with Alina's 2018 Olympics. On the other hand, for the olympic free skate Zhenya has received 77.47 points in PCS, 2.44 point more than Alina. You can believe in fairy tales about who "should have won", the fact is their chances were pretty equal.

As for Alina's postolympic PCS, for the worlds 2019 FS Alina received 74.26 and 74.96 for Nebelhorn 2018 (also 74.23 for JO 2018), which is perfectly in the reach of her 75.03 for the olympic free skate (and remember that the system was changed). And again, if one of the pillars of your speculations is that "after that she never achieved such PCS", even Zhenya didn't receive "such PCS" after the olympic FS (worlds 2019 72.97, for instance, so the slump is much more significant than with constantly denigrated Alina).

All in all, you overslept two years with complaining about who should have won 2018 olympics.
 

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
No, Higuchi's overall PCS was higher than Zagitova's (100,74 > 99,78). Alina could surpass her only because all of her jumps were backloaded both in SP and FS.

And since then Higuchi who couldn't win anything in her career is a paragon of PCS? She was just regular second year senior. Zagitova was JWC and in her first senior season won more golden medals than Higuchi in her all seasons.

Everybody need consistency and an higher technical difficulty to win. But besides that Valieva (I don't know who "any of these girls" are) has the best spins in busyness, mesmerizing artistry, great posture and flexibilty, and iconic programs and choreography.

Yeah i was only talking about the free anyway.

The whole "Higuchi who couldn't win anything in her career is not a paragon of PCS" perhaps is the best reflection of how wrong is the way these scores are given.

I mentioned that program cause even looking back, i think especially in terms of choreography Wakaba's 17-18 FS is one of the bests in years of Ladies Figure Skating (there is so much contents in there you could argue she has two choreo sequences in it one after the combo spin and the planned one after the stsq) and very underappreciated just because like you said she didn't have gold medals going in.

If a program is more complex, the skater is more involved in the performance and shows stronger skating skills, she should get higher components based on the criteria from ISU.

Skating Skills
Performance
Transitions
Composition
Interpretation

I missed the "momentum" mark somewhere maybe, the one where it says you can even turn off the music, PCS will rise anyway with consistency.

The progress of Alina's PCS during the olympic season, FS:
Lombardia 67.52
Cup of China: 68.35
IdF: 69.54
GPF: 70.42
Euros: 75.30
Olympics-team: 75.02
Olympics-individual: 75.03

This is definitely not getting "insanely high PCS scores from the start in seniors". First, it used to be a custom not to reward juniors with higher components than 8 (this "rule" was broken for the first time by Aliona at JGPF 2018 :) ). So the problem wasn't receiving higer score in seniors rather like getting lower score in juniors. Alina received 62.21 at junior worlds, so she received 5 more points in seniors, but that's nothing unusual. Evgenia Medvedeva, for instance, received 59.21 at her last junior worlds and 67.16 at her first senior GP event. 8 points increase. Is that insanely high? ;)

Second, through the GP events, Alina's PCS rose normally as her performance got better. Big increase was just between GPF and Europeans, and completely deservedly, because the quality Alina has shown there and at Olympics a month later was astounding from the perspective of interpretation, perfect tempo synchronized completely with the music, expression etc.

Well the difference is you only did math, without even considering what is the program anyway, which was my main issue with the free (the short was fine):

1) it's a junior program with an added frontloaded choreo sequence, that for me was an issue to begin with: there should be a big enough differentiation in skating quality between seniors and juniors otherwise why separating the two categories. Transitioning into senior with a reworked junior program was a bad look in my opinion (not the judges obviously)

2) For a program based on a ballet theme, there are a lot of unrefined rushed movements in that program and the hunch during crossovers, not a lot of flow and speed during the steps sequence when ballet is about fully extended positions, and straight posture.

3) Transitions in between the jumps are very lacking due to the backloading (which is only half acceptable as an excuse cause we saw from the same group, other backloaded programs with more transitions like Shcherbakova or Kostornaya FS that year): she has like one split jump into the 3sal and one rocker into the 2a, that's mostly it.

4) Even only considering numbers, 67 is a lot for a senior debut and the sudden rise between GPF and Euro also was very big.

In the end i think most of that PCS rise from to the backloading and consistency, the novelty that made some of these jumps effective cause they were in sequence basically and the 10% bonus on all of them.
 
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