2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 810 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

Ophelia

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 6, 2013
Alina's "Spectacular And Dramatic Decline Since The Olympics"
5th at Worlds (Great SP, Bad LP)
1st at Nebelhorn
1st at Japan Open
1st at GP Finland
1st at GP Russia
2nd at GP Final (including 2 skaters with a triple axel)
5th at Russian Nationals (Great SP, Bad LP) - 2nd among Senior Skaters
2nd at Europeans (Good SP, Bad LP)
1st at Worlds (including skater with 3A, skater with 4S)
2nd at Japan Open (beaten by Sasha Trusova)
2nd at GP France (against Aliona)
3rd at NHK (against Aliona & Rika)
6th at GP Final (Great SP, Bad LP) --- against an extremely strong field.

Yes - she has had her "struggles". But she overcame them.
Even during the Olympic year she had big problems in her SP during the GP series.

I hope Alina reads all the "predicitions" about her decline and imminent retirement.
And uses it as the "motivation" she needs to keep competing at a high level.

By decline I mean how fast their star explodes and then plummets. It's been the same story with every Eteri wunderkid so far. Lipniskaia (exploded in 2014 and then got replaced by Medvedeva and was pretty much done after that), Medvedeva (exploded in 2015, kept it for another season, fell spectacularly in 3rd season and got replaced by Zagitova), Zagitova (exploded in 2018, very shaky in 2019, now on her way out the door and replaced by 3As).

No other top ladies skaters has had as spectacular rises and falls. Zagitova has only been on the senior scene for 2.5 SEASONS. That is a blip on the radar.

It's rinse and repeat. We have had the same teeth gnashing every single time with each skater.
 

lesnar001

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
By decline I mean how fast their star explodes and then plummets. It's been the same story with every Eteri wunderkid so far. Lipniskaia (exploded in 2014 and then got replaced by Medvedeva and was pretty much done after that), Medvedeva (exploded in 2015, kept it for another season, fell spectacularly in 3rd season and got replaced by Zagitova), Zagitova (exploded in 2018, very shaky in 2019, now on her way out the door and replaced by 3As).

No other top ladies skaters has had as spectacular rises and falls. Zagitova has only been on the senior scene for 2.5 SEASONS. That is a blip on the radar.

It's rinse and repeat. We have had the same teeth gnashing every single time with each skater.

I guess I don't understand what you mean by "falls"
Evgenia's "falls" were European Silver and Olympic Gold.
And her struggles last year still ended with a World Bronze Medal (albeit with a different coach)

What you say as "very shaky" for Alina in 2019 still yielded better results than a lot of other top skaters.
A lot of skaters struggle with consistency. Alina even struggled with it in the Olympic year.

Talking about Spectacular Rises and Falls.
How about Lu Chen who Won Worlds Gold in 1995 and Silver in 1996.
Didn't she finish really low in 1997? Only to come back again with Bronze at the 1998 Olympics.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
... otherwise Eteri will be really known as a Junior coach, a coach for girls with prepubescent bodies.

Or ... will she be known as a figure skating coach who produced one world/Olympic champion after another year in and year out?

As for the "junior" thing, I would put it this way. It's not that Eteri Tutberidze is a coach for juniors. Rather it is that she was the coach who revealed the fact that figure skating is a sport that emphasizes skills that junior misses excel at.
 
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colormyworld240

Medalist
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
By decline I mean how fast their star explodes and then plummets. It's been the same story with every Eteri wunderkid so far. Lipniskaia (exploded in 2014 and then got replaced by Medvedeva and was pretty much done after that), Medvedeva (exploded in 2015, kept it for another season, fell spectacularly in 3rd season and got replaced by Zagitova), Zagitova (exploded in 2018, very shaky in 2019, now on her way out the door and replaced by 3As).

No other top ladies skaters has had as spectacular rises and falls. Zagitova has only been on the senior scene for 2.5 SEASONS. That is a blip on the radar.

It's rinse and repeat. We have had the same teeth gnashing every single time with each skater.

This is the story of all Russian ladies, not just Eteri's. Every skater has ups and downs, if you're a Russian lady, you don't have much time to recover from your downs because the talent pool is too deep. Tuktamysheva failed to qualify for GPF/worlds the season after the won worlds; she only recently recovered her top form many years after her world title. Radionova who was a top skater only qualified for worlds 2 seasons. Pogorilaya won bronze at worlds, then failed to qualify for GPF/worlds after that. These weren't Eteri's skaters.

All skaters, even world and olympic medalists, have bad competitions. Not just Russian either; recent medalists including Kaetlyn, Wakaba, Satoko, Lilbet have all had seasons where they didn't make GPF after winning a medal. The only difference is that in Russia there are so many female skaters that as soon as you make a mistake, someone else will be there to beat you and you may not get the time to recover and adapt.

I've given you examples in a previous reply indicating that Alina has had these meltdowns steadily throughout her career, this is not the first and I don't see it as a decline. It's just one of her lows. The competition was just lower before so she still medaled but if you look at the actual skate/scores, this is not a "decline". And yes while Alina has only been on the scene for 2.5 seasons, it's not like her career is over. She will still get two GPs. There are only 3 world spots, it's ridiculous to say that anyone who doesn't make worlds is done. Liza would've been done for a long time now, but she actually just learned a 4T.
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
Last season Alina had the Olympic champion PCS boost And many of her jumping issues (many ur’s) that the judges overlooked. She was Russia’s #1. This season the judges aren’t overlooking her technical issues and her scores have been reflecting that. She’s also no longer the #1 girl- she is actually l #6 now after Medvedeva and Liza. A good point was made about her mental struggles. If she has mental health issues then I sincerely hope they get her the help she needs.

I am seriously confused about who really has struggles of any kind here.
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
By decline I mean how fast their star explodes and then plummets. It's been the same story with every Eteri wunderkid so far. Lipniskaia (exploded in 2014 and then got replaced by Medvedeva and was pretty much done after that), Medvedeva (exploded in 2015, kept it for another season, fell spectacularly in 3rd season and got replaced by Zagitova), Zagitova (exploded in 2018, very shaky in 2019, now on her way out the door and replaced by 3As).

No other top ladies skaters has had as spectacular rises and falls. Zagitova has only been on the senior scene for 2.5 SEASONS. That is a blip on the radar.

It's rinse and repeat. We have had the same teeth gnashing every single time with each skater.

So how would you describe career of the skaters like Karen Chen, Gabby Daleman and many other US and canadian ladies we've seen this season in GP? Or Eunsoo Lim? Those ladies somehow possess the benefit that nobody is writing them off or speaking about "her star has exploded" even when their best is far worse than e.g. Alina's worst. You somehow presume that being "russian star" means winning everything, being on the top all the time, setting world records etc. That's not how it works. There is nobody who would have not bad competition or even bad season, which doesn't mean at all that it can't be better next time. And it was this way many times. Many skaters, if this "logic" would have been applied on them, would be gone long before their triumphs. But somehow, it is always Alina and co. who is always gone after every failed skate. Not only the example of Alina's victory at worlds but also Anna's victory at Russian nats says that it is just stupid to judge it this way. People tryuly are not able to learn.
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
I’m sincerely amazed at how many people have suddenly became Alina’s fans and sincerely worry for her, by saying she’s spiraling downward and stuff. Wow, so many well wishers, it’s simply amazing, what a kind and caring world we live in!
This girl is not allowed to have one subpar performance, good god.
 

Fluture

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 26, 2018
I’m sincerely amazed at how many people have suddenly became Alina’s fans and sincerely worry for her, by saying she’s spiraling downward and stuff. Wow, so many well wishers, it’s simply amazing, what a kind and caring world we live in!
This girl is not allowed to have one subpar performance, good god.

1. One does not have to be an uber fan to worry about an athlete, especially if that athlete in question is a 17 year old girl

2. “The girl“ certainly is allowed to have a subpar performance but it‘s not about that. It’s about a pattern that’s been going on for years and not only with Alina but many students before her. But maybe that‘s the “sport“ (what a wonderful sport in that case!), maybe it‘s Russian skating girls in general. I‘m just not so sure about that but we‘ll see. There‘s always the possibility that I‘ll be proved wrong, though, I don‘t discount that.
 

colormyworld240

Medalist
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
1. One does not have to be an uber fan to worry about an athlete, especially if that athlete in question is a 17 year old girl

2. “The girl“ certainly is allowed to have a subpar performance but it‘s not about that. It’s about a pattern that’s been going on for years and not only with Alina but many students before her. But maybe that‘s the “sport“ (what a wonderful sport in that case!), maybe it‘s Russian skating girls in general. I‘m just not so sure about that but we‘ll see. There‘s always the possibility that I‘ll be proved wrong, though, I don‘t discount that.

It's the result of an immensely popular sport. Each year, there are so many girls coming up. And these new girls, having been inspired by the older girls, would start training harder younger, and will be farther along technically by the time they reach seniors. For example, when Alina was 13, she didn't even qualify for a JGP spot, she didn't even have consistent triples. Since then, there hasn't been successful girl who did not do the JGP in her first season of eligibility (except Anna who broke her leg). When Sasha was 13, she landed 2 quads. Kamila also landed a quad at 13. And this trend keeps increasing, because when so many Russian girls are performing well and winning medals, younger Russian girls will want to train seriously, and this makes the sport way more popular. It's no one's fault, it's the reality.

There is no "pattern" with Alina like I've pointed out in previous posts. She has had ups and downs since her first international season. She had 2 bad competitions back then. In the olympic season, she had many sub-par performances, and of course a disastrous worlds. They were more forgiving seasons as the field in Russia wasn't as strong as it is now. But the field will get even stronger as I suspect the 3A have contributed to greater popularization of the sport. Look at non-Eteri skaters; Elena, Anna, and even those coached by the technical master that is Mishin: Liza and Sofia. And that's just the girls who made it to seniors: very promising juniors like Gubanova and Nugumanova never even competed in senior GP. Tarakanova was also once an amazing junior who was projected to be great.

You don't see this with the Russian men because the sport is not as popular. The men can have many bad competitions but still qualify for the world team; there's no one to take their sport. That's the difference. But this increase is starting in the Japanese ladies as well; with Mihara, Higuchi, Miyahara, and Kihira. Success leads to popularity, and popularity leads to a smaller percentage of successful skaters because the number of spots stays the same while the talent pool rises. That's the only pattern, and I'm not sure it should be stopped. Everyone deserves a chance to skate, and in Russia I believe lessons and coaching is funded so literally anyone can be a figure skater, where as in NA you have to come from a pretty good financial background to afford it.
 

Resa

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 4, 2017
So I watched Alina live, and apart from the underrotations which were only visible in Slow-Motion, she looked very fine and fierce. She had a lot of dynamics and energy during her performance. I think she will be fine.
 

Edwin

СделаноВХрустальном!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
NBC Sports and Patinage Magazine Reviewer - About Zagitova, Kostornaya, Medvedeva and Tuktamysheva

NBC Sports and Patinage Magazine columnist Jean-Christophe Berlo, who writes about figure skating for more than 15 years and covers almost all competitions in this sport, summed up the results of the women's Grand Prix finals.

Berlo, who attended all the training and official performances of all skaters in Turin, explained why Kostornaya, Shcherbakova and Trusova should think about the future, why Zagitova had the best programs from Tutberidze’s students, and Tuktamysheva was highly praised for the components.

“I have to say a lot about all the girls who performed in the series finale,” began Berlo. - For me it was incredibly exciting to see their skating runs, they all rode very high quality with beautiful lines and positions. These skaters personified for me what I love most in figure skating.

Respect to Tutberidze

- Great respect to the team of Eteri Tutberidze, whose students Trusova, Shcherbakova and Kostornaya perform incredible jumps. Plus, I used to celebrate skaters with difficult jumps, but how did they skate? Basic sliding skills were low, very slow, plus no beautiful lines. Another question: is it for a long time? And only the future can answer ....

Once during the competition I had a chance to chat with Eteri, and then she noted that the skater’s career is very short. And this is true: the bill goes on every day. These girls are so young and beautiful, but I hope each of them imagines what a difficult test of adulthood awaits them ahead, and also understands that, in a couple of years, there will probably be completely different skaters in the top.

Let me give an example of Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin, the second man who landed on the moon 50 years ago. When he returned to Earth, he suddenly realized that he was unlikely to be able to do something even more grandiose. Then he was only 39 years old, and Aldrin thought: what will I do for the rest of my life? And I really hope that the girls are already thinking about their future. However, this does not negate the fact that I admire the work of Tutberidze and respect it.

Incredible Cleopatra

- How do you like Zagitova’s performance in Turin?

- Alina-Alina! (Loudly and with admiration he repeated the name of Olympic champion) She has the most interesting programs of all the Tutberidze girls, even more than Kostornaya’s. Alyona is the perfect combination of all the best qualities between the new generation and the Zagitova generation. "Cleopatra" - an incredible program, which Alina is given without a trace. Pay attention to how many different movements and beautiful choreography are in it. And it is precisely for this that she has absolutely deserved nines in the components, but to my great regret, in her free program she had under rotations on six jumps at once. Because her energy, body movements and work in general are a decoration of figure skating.

The strength and beauty of Kihira

- The quad Salchow of Kihira on Saturday, which may have ended in a fall, but still took place, surprised you?

- Not. Because I saw this jump performed by Kihira in training. Russian skaters opened the door to the world of female quadruples, as if opening a Pandora's box. And now everyone will follow them. You saw here in Turin the quadruple jumps from the American Alysa Liu in the junior competitions?
Kihira is essentially incredibly strong! She jumps two triple Axels in her free program, and now she has added a quadruple Salchow. If we talk about her programs, then Kihira obviously has a lot of energy for jumping this season. You know, I talked with her coach Mie Hamada, and she explained to me something that is beyond the understanding of Europeans and Americans. What is beauty in Japan? Hamada explained - strength and calm, as if in a Japanese garden. And Kihira is very focused on jumping and therefore does not at all look like such a garden.

The hope of Tuktamysheva

- This year in the finals of the “Grand Prix” one of last year’s participants was absent - Yelizaveta Tuktamysheva ...

- Yelizaveta - this is generally the main hope of women's skating. I admire her. Tuktamysheva was able to win the title of World Champion, and therefore had every right to complete her career altogether. However, she continued, and even seriously took up the triple Axel! And her quadruple Toeloop! Tell me at least one girl who would succeed after puberty? You do not remember more than one name. I really respect Yelizaveta for staying and determined to fight. I wish her all the best at the Russian Championship!

- And yet, what, in your opinion, was not enough for Yelizavate to get to Turin?”

- It seems to me that now this new generation of judges and fans, in principle, evaluate figure skating differently, they like changes, some new things, fresh things. As for her points for the components, I did not study them in detail, but she really rides well! She has good basic sliding skills from an early age, and from her victorious 2015 World Championships Tuktamysheva really added! Yes, now many people skate at a higher speed, but pay attention to how Yelizaveta interprets her programs! Now Zagitova is also brightly presenting her programs, Kostornaya began to learn this, Shcherbakova, too, is slowly starting to skate more meaningfully. Trusova is worse with these. Tuktamysheva’s has complex jumps plus interpretation, her assessment for the components should really be higher.

- However, this is rarely reflected in the protocols of the competitions ...

- This is what the ISU should think about. The five existing criteria do not always reflect the actual rating for the components.

Rebuilding Medvyedeva

- Another Russian woman, Yevgeniya Medvyedeva, can’t qualify for the finals of the series for the second time in a row ...

- She rebuilt her skating. Talk to Rafael Harutyunyan, Tracy Wilson and Brian Orser and you will definitely hear the answer: you need at least 18 months. And it's not just about changing skating, mastering new approaches to training and preparing for starts. It is also a change in the personality of the athlete. In Medvedeva performances, it is curious to see how her skating has changed since she began working with another group of trainers. The most striking thing about her is her crazy working capacity. One very significant person in the world of figure skating, who did not want to give his name, said: "Medvyedeva is 95 percent of the work and 5 percent of talent."
Do not forget about Carolina Costner. I remember her here in Turin in 2006. She was so young when she started performing at senior level. Carolina just landed jumping, as young girls are doing now, and then she started working on herself and turned into an icon that everyone admired.

- However, she did not have such crazy competition within the country as it is now in Russia ...

- Yes, here I agree with you.

Zagitova on the way to Costner

- The performance of the Tutberidze students in Turin turned out to be triumphant. After all, the Russians took the entire Grand Prix podium for the first time - plus they all train with the same trainer. However, the tournament ahead is even more amazing in intrigue and drama - the Championship of Russia. Does the older trio Zagitova - Medvyedeva - Tuktamysheva have a chance to get into the national team?

- When I talked with Kostornaya, I noticed that this girl is very smart. She noted that in figure skating there are two ways - to be like Costner or how she and Alexandra and Anna are - to do triple Axels and quadruples. A few weeks ago, Zagitova answered one of my questions that she would like to follow the path of Costner. She has yet to work hard to reach Carolina's level. But Alina is closest to her in style, presentation and components, which we saw on Saturday evening. So all of the three listed above have a chance, and I really want them to be able to really fight.
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From: https://www.sport-express.ru/figure...ochnic-zagitova-kostornaya-medvedeva-1619773/
 

Bluediamonds09

Medalist
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Omg, is it true???? Is Russia really banned from the Olympics??? Please someone confirm if this is true or not. The story just popped up in my news on my phone like 5 minutes ago.
 

Lunalovesskating

Moonbear power 🐻
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 3, 2018
Omg, is it true???? Is Russia really banned from the Olympics??? Please someone confirm if this is true or not. The story just popped up in my news on my phone like 5 minutes ago.

Yes, however athletes are allowed to participate under a neutral flag. This also applies to the World Championships.
 

Bluediamonds09

Medalist
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Yes, however athletes are allowed to participate under a neutral flag. This also applies to the World Championships.

Ok. That’s kinda confusing to me, to be allowed to compete under neutral flag. I thought the whole country was banned no matter what, that’s why I was freaking out. So, for these upcoming junior Russian girls who have a chance to win the Olympics: they can still go if they prove that they aren’t “taking something”?
 

Fluture

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 26, 2018
Yes, however athletes are allowed to participate under a neutral flag. This also applies to the World Championships.

Is this certain? I‘ll be honest, I‘m conflicted. It‘s almost guaranteed that the World Champion this year will be of the 4A. And seeing them without their flag, not being able to sing their anthem. That’s sad. Of course, I understand the decision and I know something had to be done. But I feel sorry for our girls who really don‘t have anything to do with this mess...
 

Edwin

СделаноВХрустальном!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
Yes, however athletes are allowed to participate under a neutral flag. This also applies to the World Championships.

It remains to be seen if "Russia" will still participate without its flag. First we'll have to wait for the politicians to take their stances and for CAS to rule over the appeal, if it all goes wrong in Russia's internal politics, the governing bodies might even be ordered to keep their clean athletes at home and boycott the 'big bad world'.

We likely won't be seeing and hearing Aleksandra, Anna and Alyona proudly singing along to their national anthem again, while some kind of ISU flag is being hoisted in Montreal to a fanfare nobody knows :-(
 

Thrashergurl

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
I beg your pardon, but just because posters don’t post obsessively about how wonderful one particular skater is doesn’t mean that harbor any ill will, or dislike for that skater. Most posters are fans of the sport in general and respect these young ladies as athletes and, more importantly, as human beings. It would take a truly terrible person to hope for anyone’s downfall. Most of us have been fans of this sport for a very long time and have seen the rise and fall of many champions. We’ve witnessed the fan wars and watched these girls grow up and become more than just a skater. Please don’t twist people’s well wishes to fit some crazy agenda. I hope the fans continue to show this young lady (and all the skaters) support and well wishes.
 

katymay

Medalist
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
By decline I mean how fast their star explodes and then plummets. It's been the same story with every Eteri wunderkid so far. Lipniskaia (exploded in 2014 and then got replaced by Medvedeva and was pretty much done after that), Medvedeva (exploded in 2015, kept it for another season, fell spectacularly in 3rd season and got replaced by Zagitova), Zagitova (exploded in 2018, very shaky in 2019, now on her way out the door and replaced by 3As).

No other top ladies skaters has had as spectacular rises and falls. Zagitova has only been on the senior scene for 2.5 SEASONS. That is a blip on the radar.

It's rinse and repeat. We have had the same teeth gnashing every single time with each skater.

MOST high tech (meaning they can JUMP) skaters peak at 14-16. And most elite skaters only have a few good PEAK years. Even where there are not dramatic physical changes, jumps erode, stamina ebbs, quickness (of rotation) also ebbs with age.
Alina was born under a lucky star. She aged up at just the right time, and won Olympic Gold. Now she can cash in on this, and continue to reap the rewards of her success.
The short life span of skating careers has nothing whatsoever to do with Eteri. This sport in particular does needs some physiological studies. Why is it a 15 year old girl can throw jumps left and right, and, even when there are no post puberty body changes, those jumps can no longer be done (easily) two years later? I think something in the brain chemistry changes as we age through our teens, and changes our ability to rotate.
 
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