- Joined
- Feb 27, 2014
Then let's do it. Let's get a petition started to expand the Grand Prix spots. It should be a no-brainer.
2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
Then let's do it. Let's get a petition started to expand the Grand Prix spots. It should be a no-brainer.
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- Jun 19, 2016
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Ksyusha did it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scMiEW_ky5k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scMiEW_ky5k
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2014
Awesome. She looks so tall too.
Depends on how you define 'reaping the rewards'? If they can successfully land their quads they will win, now how much and what medals they are is another story; as is the conversation if they get to the Olympics in 2022, they might fall in the category of Mao Asada, not born in the right year.
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- Dec 18, 2017
Honestly, I don't mind that it's 6 skaters because it makes it more interesting and exciting. Perhaps the bigger problem is unjustly scoring, aka reputation inflation and newcomers-super-TES PCS inflation.
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- Apr 8, 2018
If they would actually do fair scoring and not consistency and high TES = high pcs but also look at it individually as well as look at the pcs categories individually(some people might be verd musical but don't have a lot of transitions, so scores shouldn't be almost the same) and they should get rid of that later group pcs bonus, and all of that would make it more exciting in general.
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- Dec 18, 2017
Exactly. Like, just because someone has 0 transitions it doesn't mean that their interpretation skills are bad and vice versa.
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- Feb 27, 2014
True about the scoring. But some of our favorites have been accused of benefiting from such scoring over the years.
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- Apr 8, 2018
I would rather have a fair scoring system than my fav just benefitting from a shitty, biased systemTrue about the scoring. But some of our favorites have been accused of benefiting from such scoring over the years.
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- Dec 18, 2017
True about the scoring. But some of our favorites have been accused of benefiting from such scoring over the years.
I'm aware of that. But wouldn't it be better if everything was fair and square?
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- Feb 27, 2014
Yes of couse.I'm aware of that. But wouldn't it be better if everything was fair and square?
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- Feb 27, 2014
How do we get there?
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- Aug 11, 2018
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Completely abandon the assessment of the PCS, as it is now.
Not have national based judging.
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- Mar 16, 2019
Oops, don't know if you can use that word here :roll5:
But besides that... what is fair? It might seem unfair to you, it will be fair to others.
FS is a subjective sport, and fairness will be there for some people, and others will be running around with their 'wuzzrobbed' mantras.
Guys, what you are talking about here are all subjective things, PCS is VERY subjective besides maybe TR, SS and CO, and even those three 'more objective' components will be a subject to subjective evaluation.
How do you estimate if someone's transitions are 0.5 points better than other skater, and not 0.25 or 0.75? Those are subjective measurements, you just can't expect the judges to get something evaluated 'right' (or more like what you just as subjectively want it to be), it's not going to happen.
And then that 0.25 point difference might make a crucial difference in points, we've seen many cases where skaters lose by a difference of less than a point.
And whether you want it or not, TES will affect PCS, because technical deficiencies do detract from performance and the impression it makes on the judges. But technical superiority on contrast, makes a great impression. It's easy to say "those should be separate", but when you're watching it live and someone lands magnificent jumps, it does matter and changes on our own outlook on performances. And having two panels would've never solved that issue too imo.
Like even with Zagitova/Medvedeva/Osmond skate off, I don't know who should've won, those were all very close imo. (to my subjective opinion, Zagitova's performances were the performance of the nights.) But obviously other people will see it differently and have their own opinions. Some will say Kaetlyn is the real OG, some will say Medvedeva,
there's no way to define it.
Moreover, it seems like there's no way to satisfy people: when PCS win against TES like in Lysacek/Plushenko case people will be upset. If TES wins against PCS people are upset again.
I don't mean unfair judging doesn't happen at all, it certainly does happen and we've seen accounts of some clear fixed judging over the years.
But overall, it certainly doesn't mean that all the judging done in so many years is wrong and all results should completely be thrown out of the window.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2017
That would be great, but how to achieve that? Banning all judges who show any kind of national bias? Or not allowing any judges from 'big' countries to judge at the event (like in WC 19 ladies event with no judges from Japan or Russia)?
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- Jun 21, 2003
I completely agree with this paragraph.
As for the issue of all program components turning out the same, I think it would help to replace the five categories with just two: Technical Aspects of the Program as a Whole (basically the current SS and TR) and Performance Aspects of the Program as a whole (comprising the current Performance, Composition, and Interpretation.) Keep the Element Scores as they are, so many points for a triple Lutz, etc.
Interestingly, in both the short program and the long program TES won against PCS.
In the long program Plushenko and Lysacek exactly tied in PCS. Lysacek won by presenting higher technical content, 84.57 to 82.71. (Plushenko needed a three-jump combination or more backloading to catch Lysacek in TES.)
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- Apr 8, 2018
I don't think that's completely neccessary, but on the other hand I don't really know how this could be solved
Also: I edited this, I understood the meaning of the post wrong, sorry
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- Dec 18, 2017
This is an interesting take.
I am pretty ok in terms of PCS because I've accepted the fact that it's biased (even in cases when you want to be objective, just as @nussnacker said about the magnificent jumps).
However, I'd like to see ISU invest more in making TES more objective as well. Have more cameras, let the judges rewatch in slow motion, it's very important. Deduct for jumps that are full-blade take off instead of toe pick take off. There are so many ladies that have magnificent jumps including no prerotation, decent height, and usually even transitions, and they still get less than those "top" skaters. It's really unfair.
Perhaps we should make a different thread about this, it's interesting to talk about, but not here.
