2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 177 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
See, we all know you're a fan of Team Tutberidze. That's great. But not everything people say is against them and not everything is about "silencing dissatisfied voices" either. The discussion about Aliona's FS last season was similar to what we have now:

Off-season, lack of competitions and announcements of programs causing more passionate discussions than they usually would. There are always different opinions and so far I have seen no one being the least bit disrespectful like you are implying here - and not even in a subtle way at that. If you choose to see anything negative in these discussions, by any means, do that. Nobody forces you to take part in what you see only as "pre-rejecting" anyway. Ironically enough, we were just talking about Alina's music choice yesterday. And most people were pretty positive about it. So much for that then. But oh well.


I, for one, have clearly said that as Aliona's fan I will enjoy her skating no matter what kind of program she chooses. I have also said that as long as she's healthy and happy, I will (gladly) take any program, including the Twilight program, even if it's not to my taste. In fact, I don't think it needs explaining that people would rather see skaters happy but skating to something they as fans might personally not love than having them unhappy with something else. I frankly don't see where you could possibly interpret people wanting Aliona to only choose programs to their taste or them screaming about the lack of "freedom" if she doesn't. Bit of a reach, don't you think? :confused:

You really think that "lack of competitions and announcements of programs causing more passionate discussions than they usually would"? I'm somehow glad to hear that our discussions during the season weren't so passionate like the ones we have now but more quiet, reasonable and with respect :biggrin:

But really, I'm not discussing that much this off-season, or I wasn't, because there was nothing to discuss, passionately or not. Music announcement (and program theme) is something particular, where is something to discuss, so that's the case when I join the conversation with more enthusiasm, but not because I had nothing to do till now and wanted something to discuss desperately, as you may indicate, but because I see the usual suspects having usual objections that are returning like a boomerang. And the thing about the freedom is really a case, I've seen it many times, like with Alina's Carmen (e.g.: let the skaters have the right to have their wish - but Alina wished Carmen - but it is not appropriate for her...). This time I don't think the change has occured because "Aliona is definitely not the darling" (that's really, well, biased statement, to say it as modderately as I can), but contrary. I really doubt they would make such change "just because (Aliona isn't darling)", they have a reason for it (which could be pretty easy that Aliona herself wants it that way). And when there is a reason than I'll wait what will come out of it, it is really premature to put objections (even with compulsory "I am Aliona's fan, but..."). Esp. when we know that program which many people criticized was in fact Aliona's favorite one.
 

andromache

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
The Twilight movies have some good music, but the selections they've picked from the soundtrack are not good. Not to mention that Twilight is very far beneath Alena's abilities as an artist. It's a real shame her team has decided to go this route. I think Twilight is ok as an SP (which are traditionally more "fun" or "light"), but as an LP for a senior lady with Alena's level of talent? Nah. I'll take R&J over that. But we'll wait and see, I guess. I'm sure Alena's talent will shine through regardless of whatever mediocre music or choreography she is given.

I do expect we will see her repeat her SP from last season, which is okay since it was a signature piece for her, but a real shame since Trusova and Shcherbakova are each getting two new programs. But I will keep my fingers crossed that Alena will instead be getting a gorgeous new SP to appropriately mature music.

ETA: For some reason I thought SPs and LPs had been announced for Trusova and Shcherbakova, but upon further reading I was wrong. So maybe all three girls will be repeating a program? We'll see....
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 3, 2018
The Twilight movies have some good music, but the selections they've picked from the soundtrack are not good. Not to mention that Twilight is very far beneath Alena's abilities as an artist. It's a real shame her team has decided to go this route. I think Twilight is ok as an SP (which are traditionally more "fun" or "light"), but as an LP for a senior lady with Alena's level of talent? Nah. I'll take R&J over that. But we'll wait and see, I guess. I'm sure Alena's talent will shine through regardless of whatever mediocre music or choreography she is given.

I do expect we will see her repeat her SP from last season, which is okay since it was a signature piece for her, but a real shame since Trusova and Shcherbakova are each getting two new programs. But I will keep my fingers crossed that Alena will instead be getting a gorgeous new SP to appropriately mature music.

I couldn’t agree more! I’m sure she will be stunning regardless. But honestly at this point in my understanding of the direction her team has chosen to go in, I would rather her use an old program. It might end up being like Evgenia’s leftovers program where they leave it after one competition because they’re not happy with how it plays out on competitive ice.
 
Joined
Jul 3, 2018
On the topic of discussing Alena. What actually was the injury she was out on at the end of last season? Is it likely to reoccur. I really do hope this is not like what happened with Evgenia.
 

Georgya

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 6, 2018
I'm not concerned about Alena. I love both songs Blue Foundation - Eyes On Fire and Muse - Supermassive Black Hole and I think it's cool that Alena and her team are experimenting.

Both songs fit and I could see a program with Alena in a blue dress like the one Kristen Stewart wear in "Dawn" - like this

I suspect they composed, composed and composed so much that it did not fit into the short one so they decided to transform it into a FP. Yes, this may be as much a masterpiece program as a failure. But I trust and hope for the best!

So there are 3 of them without a SP announced - Alexandra, Alina and Alena.
 

vesperalvioletta

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2017
Country
United-States
On the topic of discussing Alena. What actually was the injury she was out on at the end of last season? Is it likely to reoccur. I really do hope this is not like what happened with Evgenia.

There was a lot of mystery surrounding the injury. At first her team said it was just lower leg inflammation, but I believe it was eventually confirmed to be a stress fracture of the fibula.
 
Joined
Jul 3, 2018
There was a lot of mystery surrounding the injury. At first her team said it was just lower leg inflammation, but I believe it was eventually confirmed to be a stress fracture of the fibula.

That sounds pretty serious! I hope they are taking good care of her and that this doesn’t impact her senior career. I honestly haven’t been this excited for a skaters’ senior debut since Evgenia.
 

SkateSkates

Medalist
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
That sounds pretty serious! I hope they are taking good care of her and that this doesn’t impact her senior career. I honestly haven’t been this excited for a skaters’ senior debut since Evgenia.

Yes, she confirmed in an interview at champions on ice it started out as inflammation but the bone could not withstand the pressure and cracked. My fear is that she came back for the show in April too soon and wasn’t fully recovered. She seemed much stronger and more confident in her jumps at DOI, but I want her to be 100% for her debut.
 

Fluture

Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 26, 2018
Will all due respect, I feel like when people start sentences like that they try to say "you're a fan, hence you lack objectivity".
You wouldn't like if someone told you, "well, you're a fan of Medvedeva. That's great. But I think your criticism is a bit of a reach." =)
Everyone's a fan of someone here, so I don't know how that delegitimizes their opinions. :)


And I think you misunderstood Flanker. He was trying to say "Let's give it some more time" with giving an example of last year's program becoming better as season went on.
I agree that in summer programs are always a little undertrained and rough. Moreover, she was doing a 'show' version of a program.
Evgenia also took her EX program Karenina and it became her competitive program, and imo the changes between her EX and her competitive program were quite big.

Yeah, because that doesn't happen lol. No, seriously, now, I'm not delegitimizing opinions of anyone simply because they are a fan. Most of us in here are fans of someone or we wouldn't be here. But I do find it slightly odd when someone cannot take even the smallest point of criticism against their favourites (I'm talking here about this example specifically because come on, discussions about a program choice the way we had it at the moment has been nothing serious) and that's why I responded in this way.

I absolutely agree that we should give it time. And not once have I said differently. Most people in here, in fact, are of the opinion that the program could very well end up better than they'd imagined, especially if Daniil made certain changes to the choreography and a different costume was being used. I merely talked about what I was feeling NOW about the music and the theme choice based on what we've seen so far. Which is, admittedly, not a lot but more than about, say, Alina's program. What I think now might very well be different from what I'll think in September. If that's the case, I'll be the first to gladly say so and admit that I've changed my opinion. Discussing the choice doesn't mean that we've rejected it entirely already - it just means that now, at this point in time, we have doubts about it. But most people are very much capable of changing their opinions when presented with a good reason to do so. :)

You really think that "lack of competitions and announcements of programs causing more passionate discussions than they usually would"? I'm somehow glad to hear that our discussions during the season weren't so passionate like the ones we have now but more quiet, reasonable and with respect :biggrin:

No, that's not what I meant at all. I meant that in the off-season any kind of announcement will attract more attention and opinions than it might do during the competitive one. People are bored. During the season we have other topics to discuss - which we do. And not any less passionate. :shrug: Now we're clinging to anything - rumours, videos, quad attempts, program announcements. It's a bit different than when you have a new competition coming up every other week.


But really, I'm not discussing that much this off-season, or I wasn't, because there was nothing to discuss, passionately or not. Music announcement (and program theme) is something particular, where is something to discuss, so that's the case when I join the conversation with more enthusiasm, but not because I had nothing to till now and wanted something to discuss desperately, as you may indicate, but because I see the usual suspects having usual objections that are returning like a boomerang. And the thing about the freedom that is really a case, I've seen it many times, like with Alina's Carmen (eg.: let the skaters have the right to have their wish - but Alina wished Carmen - but it is not appropriate for her...). This time I don't think the change has occured because "Aliona is definitely not the darling" (that's really, well, biased statement, to say it as modderately as I can), but contrary. I really doubt they would make such change "just because (Aliona isn't darling)", they have a reason for it (which could be pretty easy that Aliona wants it that way). And when there is a reason than I'll wait what will come out of it, it is really premature to put objections (even with compulsory "I am Aliona's fan, but..."). Esp. when we know that program which many people criticized was in fact Aliona's favorite one.

I thought Alina's Carmen wasn't a particularly good program because it was too rushed for her to get in character. I still enjoyed it more than POTO which I felt was, despite the music cuts, the better and more coherent program of the two. And why is that? Yes, exactly because I knew Alina loved and had chosen Carmen herself and because I felt that it translated to the ice. I have many, many times in the past liked programs of skaters not because I thought they were necessarily great or well choreographed but because I could see their enthusiasm while skating to them. Zhenya's Anna Karenina is one of my all-time favourites even though I still think the choreography is lackluster. Because she felt and loved it and created moments to remember with it.

So, frankly, I don't get your point at all. You know, one can wish for freedom in a skater's choice while still offering doubts about the program chosen. Not liking all of their choices doesn't mean I'd rather they do something else that I saw more fitting but might make them unhappy. If the end product creates great moments, I'm all for it.

As for the "compulsory "I am Aliona's fan, but..."".

Have you maybe thought that maybe it is true that these people are Aliona's fans and we're at a point where you have to add this to almost every slight point of criticism because some people might otherwise take it wrongly as hate and rush to defend when there's nothing to defend against? It's almost sad.

In the end, I still only hope Aliona is healthy. She can skate to whatever she wants to, then and I'll be happy just to see her. Especially since the injury was kind of a mystery and we still don't know whether she's fully recovered. So, I'll keep my fingers crossed for that, instead of wishing for a great Twilight program. It is what it is and Aliona can sell anything, especially if she is enthusiastic about it
 

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Wait, what?
I can’t speak Russian minus a few words. What made her accuse them of doping? That’s a pretty big accusation for such a little person to be making!

She made a joke about skaters doping with chocolate. Media took the quote out of context and made it seem like she really meant doping.

I watched that Periscope and to me she really meant doping, but regardless she is so young she didn't understand what she said, the whole team apologized for it and actually what has been quite sad is that judges lowballed her marks after that mistake which is unfair in my opinion.
 

TripleAxelQueens3

sasha trusova is superior
Final Flight
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
From what I gathered, Shabotova made some joke about how the "right dope" is good, and then later explained, in the same video, that the right dope was chocolate. Disclaimer, I don't speak Russian, this was the conclusion we reached during December when the "scandal" broke out. Anyways, I rather like her skating, and she seems like she has a lot of potential. After the doping thing got out, all her results were pretty bad, but early in the season she won the fifth stage, beating Khromykh.
 

TripleAxelQueens3

sasha trusova is superior
Final Flight
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
NOT a fan of the Twilight movies or books, but the soundtracks not bad. The two songs Alena used in her EX (Eyes on Fire and Supermassive Black Hole) were both pretty good, and if the right choreographer was to use them, the program probably would turn out pretty good. There are also some more lyrical songs (Bella's Lullaby is nice), which she could use. Perhaps the EX was just an EX, and they'll piece together an entirely new Bella. If I were to guess it would probably start out more lyrical or calm, then evolve into the more upbeat music, like Bella turned into a vampire.

RIP to the old FS, the songs sounded so nice, and they fit Alena so well...
 

theharleyquinn

Medalist
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Well, you thought. Not "most people here". Seriously, this is more about taste than about good/bad. Or we can talk about good/bad for that particular skater. As for Alina's last season programs, I liked them (never said they were my most favorite ones - DQ and Black Swan are the ones) but seriously for me personally those were best senior programs of the season I am aware of. But also it is not so much relevant whethere they were best for me perosnally but whether they worked for the skater -and they did. Despite doubts. World record, world gold medal. I think the problem is that some people like you are looking for different style. It is legit that someone likes something, he should not be surprised or disappointed, when things are different then their wish. I was talking about ice hockey and I've already mentioned before that I liked how this game looked like 20 years ago more than how it looks now. But the reality is that with the game like it used to be team would have only a little chance now. It's like saying "I liked more when armoured knights led their horses into battle with banners and fought for honour etc. Yes, it is a great imagination, but the reality is that today they would have no chance. And in figure skating of today, I doubt that the way people like you are still proposing so vehemently for skaters like Alina would bring them score like 237+. maybe it does not sound nice, but the score is the thing that it is all about. It is great that it can still look beautiful with all the fight for high score, but to achieve it one has to make program particular way.

I don't quite understand this argument or the analogy made to hockey. Medals can be won primarily on technical prowess. Choreographic changes could have been made to Alina's Carmen and she likely still would've won Worlds with a comparable score off of the strength of her technical elements. Maybe I'm revealing my cynicism about PCS, but the artistry arguments that so frequently come up on this forum don't actually play into how judges decide who wins. The jumps, yes, but Alina doesn't win because judges are looking for Daniil-style programs.
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
I don't quite understand this argument or the analogy made to hockey. Medals can be won primarily on technical prowess. Choreographic changes could have been made to Alina's Carmen and she likely still would've won Worlds with a comparable score off of the strength of her technical elements. Maybe I'm revealing my cynicism about PCS, but the artistry arguments that so frequently come up on this forum don't actually play into how judges decide who wins. The jumps, yes, but Alina doesn't win because judges are looking for Daniil-style programs.

No, it's the Danill's (or Eteri's) programs that is following the judgement. "Fullness" of programs is valued well. Transitions are valued well. Going into jumps from choreographic elements is valued well. Choreographic changes could have been made with that program (tehre always can be different things), but not changes in the sense of striking more choreographic elements off. I was mentioning ice hockey as a good example, it is that if you look closely, today's play is much more "busy" in the fiogure skating sense than it was just two decades decades ago (like involvement of the players who currently are not closely to puck etc.). There was much more space on the ice, therefore there were e.g. specific combinations possible that could be hardly done now.
 

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
I think it is fascinating that a lot of people here care about the music choice. Personally, I couldn't care less. They can skate to cheesy Disney music or a heavy metal medley for all I care (and I can't stand heavy metal), for me it is just about how they interpret that music. If you're good - no music would get in the way.
 

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
I'm a nerd - so what are nerds doing? Well, compiling medal lists for example.

Here is a list of Russian ladies from 1993-2019 who have medals from GP events, European Championships, World Championships, Olympic Games, Junior World Championships and Russian Senior Nationals. JGP, Junior Russian Nationals and Team events are NOT included.

1. Irina Slutskaya - 59 medals
2. Maria Butyrskaya - 39
3. Elena Sokolova - 22
4. Evgenia Medvedeva - 21
5. Viktoria Volchkova - 20
5. Elena Radionova - 20
5. Elizaveta Tuktamysheva - 20
8. Adelina Sotnikova - 16
9. Yulia Lipnitskaya - 14
10. Alina Zagitova - 13
10. Anna Pogorilaya - 13
12. Alena Leonova - 12
13. Julia Soldatova - 10
14. Olga Markova - 9
15. Maria Sotskova - 8
16. Elena Ivanova - 4 (this is a strange one, all medals are from junior worlds)
17. Alexandra Trusova - 3
17. Alena Kostornaia - 3
17. Sofia Samodurova - 3
20. Serafima Sakhanovich, Kristina Oblasova, Anna Shcherbakova, Lilia Biktagirova, Ksenia Doronina, Ksenia Makarova - 2 medals
26. Elena Pingacheva, Nadezda Kanaeva, Daria Timoshenko, Polina Agafonova, Tatiana Basova, Alexandra Ievleva, Nina Petushkova, Olga Naidenova, Katarina Gerboldt, Polina Tsurskaya, Stanislava Konstantinova - 1 medal

Note: Maria Butyrskaya and Olga Markova was active before the GP was created. Maria has a win at Skate Canada in 1992 and Olga has a 2nd place from Skate Canada in 1993 that are not counted here.
 
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