2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

Finley said:

But for some people Alina is just this mediocre skater

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Hmph...Of course, she's mediocre: can neither skate with her mouth open artistically for the duration of the whole programme, nor can she artistically flail her arms like a windmill; can't artistically mime worth a kopeck, and most importantly, she doesn't have that bane of all figure skaters - the posture.

Finley said:

Don't forget "Overscored!" "Trending downward" and "deteriorating technique" :shocked: Oh, I almost forgot "Undeserving"

Memories of last season in the Russian Ladies Thread on GS! Good Times!

And then came Worlds Best day ever!

But for some people Alina is just this mediocre skater who the judges are just throwing medals at for some reason. It's a mystery....

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Alina obviously deserves the medals she won. She won them for a reason. Scores are debatable, as they are for almost every skater and will always be. In the end, it doesn‘t matter too much, though, whether she should have won Worlds with a 10 or only 5 points advantage. She won and that‘s it. Points are something else. I do think we can talk about them, especially if we feel they aren‘t right. If anything, it‘s still only an issue with the judging system in general, not Alina herself.

About the “trending downard“... I don‘t think it‘s debatable that Alina had some rough moments last season. Especially Euros and RusNats. I know she was injured but there‘s no denying... she skated badly. And not only that, overall everything seemed to be harder for her. She just looked tired. That being said, after the year she had before, winning Olympics and everything, it was only to be expected that there would be a little slump afterwards. It‘s completely normal, most skaters skip the season after altogether. Alina didn‘t and she held herself pretty well, imo. But I can see how some came to the conclusion that she was trending downward because... well... she was. After a year like that, there‘s almost no other way. I think it was a bit (not too much, she was still OGM) unexpected that she won Worlds (she had lost quite some momentum after Euros whereas Rika was going into Worlds as GPF and 4CC champion) but in a good way.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BzyHOTnovLf/?igshid=1nvdpox07in2j

I think everybody who still has a heart had to smile at this moment.

As for the deteriorating technique. Well, she started to UR quite frequently. I can see how people came to this conclusion. Her lutz edge also went from clear outside to a bit more flat. (Though I have to say that, to my eye at least, it looked better at Worlds) Overall, I wouldn‘t say it‘s enough to say her technique was completely deteriorating but she did have some obvious problems. How she managed to go and turn everything around at the most important competition of the season is truly admirable, though. Her jumps looked more secure than they‘d done all season, even Jackie Wong noted that.

Not gonna lie, Alina surprised me a little. I always thought she had it in her to win Worlds but I thought maybe next year when she‘s fully adjusted to the body changes. She did it this year. Good for her.

In general, I‘d say it depends on how people voice their thoughts. What you mentioned is definitely too harsh of a way and not nice at all. (Not to mention that it‘s mostly not even correct - especially the ”undeserving“ part.)

moriel said:

Ok, lemme fix tis:

Group A
Trusova (QUADS)
Zagitova (Artistry/Reputation/High TES among non quadsters)
Tuktamysheva (3 Axel)
Kostornaia (Consistency/Performance/Jumps)
Scherbakova (4Lutz but inconsistent)

Group B
Medvedeva (Under rotation, inconsistency, issues with transitions and rotations)
Konstantinova (Inconsistency)
SamOdurova (Consistent but low TES)

-- people above have a chance for major international senior competition, people below, not really---

Group C
Gubanova (Inconsistency, UR issues, team that is not likely to address those)
Tarakanova (No consistency, recent coach change, yet to see how it goes)
Tarusina (Consistency)
Sotskova (Honestly I dont even know - considering university, disaster last season and the recent death of her father, I wouldn't bet here)
Sakhonovich (Inconsistent)
Nugumanova (Inconsistent)
Guliakova (Inconsistent)
Vasilieva (Consistent but UR issues that may be called internationally)

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How is Gubanovas coach not going to address Nastyas issues? She's already coached and Olympic champion in her career?

Poor Masha. She should be in list B. But she's going through so much this offseason.

Zhenya in list B coming off a gutsy World bronze medal at the end of the toughest season she ever had? Wowwwwww.

Scott512 said:

I keep hearing about puberty problems for Nastya. Can you explain your thoughts on it? She has a little bit of a figure for a ladies figure skater. But she's not so curvy that it should interfere with her tremendous skating skills in my opinion. What you and others will probably say is adding four or five pounds and growing in 2 or 3 inched can throw everything off. Well I hope Anastasiia is through puberty now at 16 and a half years old.

Alina should be in group A on anyone's list.

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I think the problem with Nastya is that she at 13 was verry short and slim (a childs body) and had quite a wonky technique (season 2016/17) on many jumps while still being consistent (despite her otherwise lovely qualities on SS and spins) but when she at 15 started to grow and get a more mature body it became difficult to jump with her previous technique (JGP 2017 prime example of this). It seams however that she worked a lot on that during the 2017/18 season because at junior nats 2018 and this latest season it has looked much better than it did in 2017

Scott512 said:

How is Gubanovas coach not going to address Nastyas issues? She's already coached and Olympic champion in her career?

Poor Masha. She should be in list B. But she's going through so much this offseason.

Zhenya in list B coming off a gutsy World bronze medal at the end of the toughest season she ever had? Wowwwwww.

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Well, to be fair, Adelina was also heavily inconsistent. Didn‘t she bomb the GPF before the Olympics? She managed to peak at the most important competition of her career which includes skill, yes, but also a whole bit of luck. I‘m not that confident about Buyanova. She was the one who said working on URs is overrated and the rules should be changed... and look how much Masha and Polina struggled with URs last season.

I‘m so sorry for Masha. She‘s an amazing skater and has achieved a lot, even if she was often overshadowed last season by Alina and Zhenya. I have frankly no idea about her prospects for the next season but for now I just wish her strength and support to go through this terrible time, everything else is not important, results are not important. If she loves to compete and skate, she should do that. Maybe it will help her as an distraction, something to pour her heart into.

Zhenya and Alina both belong on the A list. They proved it at Worlds. Things may change during the season, depending on how they perform, I don‘t deny that but for now they have earned their place up there. Zhenya was the third best skater in the World at the end of the season. Alina the best. How could anybody think they aren‘t among the A group of Russians, if they were the two best of their country a few months ago? Again, next season everything may change or it may not but for now, going into this new season, they have the momentum on their side.

Just a little comparison:

Zagitova (Under rotation, height problems, inconsistency)

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No reaction, everything's perfectly fine. Then comes this:

Medvedeva (Under rotation, inconsistency, issues with transitions and rotations)

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Aaand we have immediate reaction:

we all get that you heavily dislike zhenya to no ends

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And yes. Alina had URs during season. She had to deal with growth spurts, ankle injury, burns. We all know that. So what. She was able to overcome that and that is her biggest victory, the fact that it is her and not anobody else who is the world champion (after she became olympic champion) is a cherry on the cake, it is not a crime

flanker said:

Just a little comparison:



No reaction, everything's perfectly fine. Then comes this:



Aaand we have immediate reaction:





And yes. Alina had URs during season. She had to deal with growth spurts, ankle injury, burns. We all know that. So what. She was able to overcome that and that is her biggest victory, the fact that it is her and not anobody else who is the world champion is a cherry on the cake, it is not a crime

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Lol what are you talking about? There was a clear reaction to this post and it was that Alina doesn‘t belong in Group B. She should be among the A group, obviously because she won Worlds and has all the momentum. Just like Zhenya should be in the A group because she also medaled at Worlds. They both had clear issues and problems last season and for both of them it looks like they overcame them and skated cleanly at Worlds. Proves their strength and determination. Good for them, I‘d say.

But my question is: what are you even trying to prove here? This has become ridiculous.

fabienne1996 said:

That's because said poster dislikes zhenya heavily, put both zhenya and a line into category A and be done with it. Moriel the poster Will always harph about zhenya, Will always find some thing bad to say about her.

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I know Fabi. It surprises me if someone chooses not to put Evgenia in list A heading into next season. But it is what it is and the competition for list A list B and list C is exceptional.

Scott512 said:

I know Fabi. It surprises me if someone chooses not to put Evgenia in list A heading into next season. But it is what it is and the competition for list A list B and list C is exceptional.

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Yeah, that‘s probably one of the few points we can all agree on. The amount of talent in Russian ladies skating at the moment is insane.

Vilord said:

I think the problem with Nastya is that she at 13 was verry short and slim (a childs body) and had quite a wonky technique (season 2016/17) on many jumps while still being consistent (despite her otherwise lovely qualities on SS and spins) but when she at 15 started to grow and get a more mature body it became difficult to jump with her previous technique (JGP 2017 prime example of this). It seams however that she worked a lot on that during the 2017/18 season because at junior nats 2018 and this latest season it has looked much better than it did in 2017

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What you said makes sense. I hope Anastasia is done with puberty and has adjusted to her new body muscles and figure. But it can't be easy.

Fluture said:

Yeah, that‘s probably one of the few points we can all agree on. The amount of talent in Russian ladies skating at the moment is insane.

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For sure. Even the so-called B team is really really good. The C team for that matter too. The A team is beyond awesome.

flanker said:

Just a little comparison:



No reaction, everything's perfectly fine. Then comes this:



Aaand we have immediate reaction:





And yes. Alina had URs during season. She had to deal with growth spurts, ankle injury, burns. We all know that. So what. She was able to overcome that and that is her biggest victory, the fact that it is her and not anobody else who is the world champion (after she became olympic champion) is a cherry on the cake, it is not a crime [emoji3]

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Are we reading the same things, cause I wonder where you saw no reaction to a line being in group b, in the original posters list. Cause there was a reaction immediately, which was others saying that alina deserves to be in group a, which I said too in my post,, so what exactly do you want to prove?

Fluture said:

Well, to be fair, Adelina was also heavily inconsistent. Didn‘t she bomb the GPF before the Olympics? She managed to peak at the most important competition of her career which includes skill, yes, but also a whole bit of luck. I‘m not that confident about Buyanova. She was the one who said working on URs is overrated and the rules should be changed... and look how much Masha and Polina struggled with URs last season.

I‘m so sorry for Masha. She‘s an amazing skater and has achieved a lot, even if she was often overshadowed last season by Alina and Zhenya. I have frankly no idea about her prospects for the next season but for now I just wish her strength and support to go through this terrible time, everything else is not important, results are not important. If she loves to compete and skate, she should do that. Maybe it will help her as an distraction, something to pour her heart into.

Zhenya and Alina both belong on the A list. They proved it at Worlds. Things may change during the season, depending on how they perform, I don‘t deny that but for now they have earned their place up there. Zhenya was the third best skater in the World at the end of the season. Alina the best. How could anybody think they aren‘t among the A group of Russians, if they were the two best of their country a few months ago? Again, next season everything may change or it may not but for now, going into this new season, they have the momentum on their side.

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Adelina was overall very inconsistent in her career. But she had some high points and some excellent results even outside the Olympics. if Buyanova could not help nastya get to the next level I will be terribly disappointed. I know this particular coach struggled with Polina and Masha but and that is scary. But they are different skaters than Anastasia is. if Buyanova can't get Nastya into the Russian top 6 in 2 years who's going to want to be coached by her in the future?

fabienne1996 said:

Are we reading the same things, cause I wonder where you saw no reaction to a line being in group b, in the original posters list. Cause there was a reaction immediately, which was others saying that alone deserves to be in group a, which I said too in my post,, so what exactly do you want to prove?

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I'm speaking about you . You didn't react on the first post quoted, but on the second one. Statement that Alina had URs didn't make you react, statement that Zhenya had URs made you claiming that "we all get that you heavily dislike zhenya to no ends ".

That is also an explanation to this:

Fluture said:

Lol what are you talking about? There was a clear reaction to this post and it was that Alina doesn‘t belong in Group B. She should be among the A group, obviously because she won Worlds and has all the momentum. Just like Zhenya should be in the A group because she also medaled at Worlds. They both had clear issues and problems last season and for both of them it looks like they overcame them and skated cleanly at Worlds. Proves their strength and determination. Good for them, I‘d say.

But my question is: what are you even trying to prove here? This has become ridiculous.

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I don't need to prove anything at all

flanker said:

I don't need to prove anything at all

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Glad to hear that you don‘t, lol. Still doesn‘t change the fact that you‘re going around every other day posting “small comparisons“ about Zhenya‘s and Alina‘s fans and how they are so very different that are frankly, just unnecessary. Alina and Zhenya both belong in that A group, based on what they showed at Worlds, and that’s it. There‘s no need to drag it out like that. It just causes tension.

Lol, I never made it a secret that alina while I like her and yes she is a great skater is not my favorite, so I do not have to say something, but what I am not doing is only pointing bad things out with alina, I always say that she is a great skater . and even if I wanted to say something about alina not being in group a in the original post, I was far to late for that, cause guess what I am not online here 24/7 and read every new post when it's posted, especially since I am right now on vacation in Egypt .And as we see alina has enough fans to react to the original post, which they did,. B

Fluture said:

Glad to hear that you don‘t, lol. Still doesn‘t change the fact that you‘re going around every other day posting “small comparisons“ about Zhenya‘s and Alina‘s fans and how they are so very different that are frankly, just unnecessary. Alina and Zhenya both belong in that A group, based on what they showed at Worlds, and that’s it. There‘s no need to drag it out like that. It just causes tension.

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This has anything to do with anything I've written so far today. But if you started to speak about "small comparison", than there is one simple:

For a very long time I don't remember that some Alina fan would come and just out of the blue started to write something that two time world champion, one time world bronze medalist, silver team competition olympic medalist and silver individual olympic medalist (not to mention other numerous and deserved titles) Evgenia Medvedeva has URs, problems with consistency and any other issue she had to come through. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but if that happened, it was very rare occasion. E. g. I would not start any conversation with this, I would find it not correct from me as a person who favors somebody else. And also why would I even do that, I don't see any point in it.

On the other hand, comments about particularly Alina's issues (URs etc.) are very common here, from users who may be fans but prefer other skaters more. That is fine of course, we are not in fanfest in this thread, so respectful level of criticism is OK. But with the freedom to criticize there comes of course freedom to disagree with statements and opinions. And, as a reaction to claims about reigning olympic champion, team event silver medalist and reigning world champion (not to mention other numerous and deserved titles) Alina Zagitova being, let's say, in some B group , of course comments about issues of other skaters that weren't mentioned in the original comment then appear. So, of course many fans of Evgenia Medvedeva will have objections when somebody points about her issues, but such comment didn't come out of the blue and without the original comment it would not probably been made at all.

Again, this is for me also perfect answer to this comment:

fabienne1996 said:

And I am not saying that alina had it easy , but what I do not like about moriel , is simply that she uses every and I mean every opportunity to say something bad about zhenya, while wanting to sweep the good things from her under the rug, but wants to praise alina and wants to sweep her difficulties under the rug. Sorry said poster doesn't get to do this one way for the skater she likes and the other way around for the one she dislikes, both skaters had their problems last season, both fought through it. So alina had to deal with injuries, hate from skating fans, and growing . And zhenya had also had to deal with injuries, hate same as alina, and had to deal with being under a new trainer , new country new language! And both fought through that.

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flanker said:

This has anything to do with anything I've written so far today. But if you started to speak about "small comparison", than there is one simple:

For a very long time I don't remember that some Alina fan would come and just out of the blue started to write something that two time world champion, one time world bronze medalist, silver team competition olympic medalist and silver individual olympic medalist (not to mention other numerous and deserved titles) Evgenia Medvedeva has URs, problems with consistency and any other issue she had to come through. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but if that happened, it was very rare occasion. E. g. I would not start any conversation with this, I would find it not correct from me as a person who favors somebody else. And also why would I even do that, I don't see any point in it.

On the other hand, comments about particularly Alina's issues (URs etc.) are very common here, from users who may be fans but prefer other skaters more. That is fine of course, we are not in fanfest in this thread, so respectful level of criticism is OK. But with the freedom to criticize there comes of course freedom to disagree with statements and opinions. And, as a reaction to claims about reigning olympic champion, team event silver medalist and reigning world champion (not to mention other numerous and deserved titles) Alina Zagitova being, let's say, in some B group , of course comments about issues of other skaters that weren't mentioned in the original comment then appear. So, of course many fans of Evgenia Medvedeva will have objections when somebody points about her issues, but such comment didn't come out of the blue and without the original comment it would not probably been made at all.

Again, this is for me also perfect answer to this comment:

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I just don‘t get what you want. Both Zhenya and Alina were criticized unfairly in the past. They were criticized fairly too. Is there really any need to establish where certain criticism came from? I don‘t think so, especially since we‘ll never be able to pinpoint this exactly anyway as everybody has a vastly different view on this.

Fans are biased, has it occurred to you that you may be too? From a fan‘s perspective, it seemed to me that Zhenya got just as much (unfair) criticism as Alina got. Is this biased? Maybe, maybe not. Who cares, though? Do we really have to talk about whose fans are worse and what they do and not do? It just derails the thread and causes people to bicker. If you see unfair criticism of Alina, report it, call it out and say why you think it is wrong, do whatever you want, just don‘t bring Zhenya‘s fans or “different sides“ into this because it becomes annoying. I‘m so over these fanwars, sorry. They‘re both two great girls and they both have good as well as bad fans. As literally anybody else. No need at all to always trying to prove a point about who is worse or makes more unfair criticism.

flanker said:

This has anything to do with anything I've written so far today. But if you started to speak about "small comparison", than there is one simple:

For a very long time I don't remember that some Alina fan would come and just out of the blue started to write something that two time world champion, one time world bronze medalist, silver team competition olympic medalist and silver individual olympic medalist (not to mention other numerous and deserved titles) Evgenia Medvedeva has URs, problems with consistency and any other issue she had to come through. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but if that happened, it was very rare occasion. E. g. I would not start any conversation with this, I would find it not correct from me as a person who favors somebody else. And also why would I even do that, I don't see any point in it.

On the other hand, comments about particularly Alina's issues (URs etc.) are very common here, from users who may be fans but prefer other skaters more. That is fine of course, we are not in fanfest in this thread, so respectful level of criticism is OK. But with the freedom to criticize there comes of course freedom to disagree with statements and opinions. And, as a reaction to claims about reigning olympic champion, team event silver medalist and reigning world champion (not to mention other numerous and deserved titles) Alina Zagitova being, let's say, in some B group , of course comments about issues of other skaters that weren't mentioned in the original comment then appear. So, of course many fans of Evgenia Medvedeva will have objections when somebody points about her issues, but such comment didn't come out of the blue and without the original comment it would not probably been made at all.

Again, this is for me also perfect answer to this comment:

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The glaring point is that that one poster always makes it clear how much she dislikes zhenya. . And i remember said poster writing a lot against zhenya when she left eteri. . In this forum there was and still is enough bad things said about both alina and zhenya .to say that there wasnt as much written against zhenya than alina is wrong.

And pertaining to the post that started this i would have liked to see both the plus things as well as the problems.

fabienne1996 said:

The glaring point is that that one poster always makes it clear how much she dislikes zhenya. . And i remember said poster writing a lot against zhenya when she left eteri. . In this forum there was and still is enough bad things said about both alina and zhenya .to say that there wasnt as much written against zhenya than alina is wrong.

And pertaining to the post that started this i would have liked to see both the plus things as well as the problems.

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I perceive "that one poster", moriel to be specific, as a user who contributes to this forum very much, makes perfect translations for us all and often making good points. Don't see her as a biased person and if she makes a claim that matters e. g. Medvedeva in a negative way, than it is not unprovoked useless claim. But I am one user with subjective opinion, of course.