2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 4 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

Joined
Jul 3, 2018
I do not understand what you mean about Nastya G. She was slowed at the beginning of the season with boot issues caused by growth issues and it was an uphill battle after that although she showed flashes of wonderful skating like Russian cup SP. Hopefully she can bottle that for next season whether she's a senior or junior or both.

Ailnas programs worked for her this year and she will have better programs next year which will make her even better which no one wants to hear except Zagatova fans. Muaaaaaaaah!

Sorry that might have got a little lost in translation. I meant that she had a good showing for the second half of this season and I’m very excited to see where it takes her next season. I meant it like she didn’t come into the season to just do the minimum she came to show off especially at Russian Cup and she wasn’t put off by the talent she was up against. A very elegant yet powerful skater.
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
Alina! I am still happy and relieved that the season ended so well for her. Don’t remember being so worried about a skater. Unlike other people, I loved POTO and Carmen from the beginning. When delivered well, the programs are stunning. What shocked me during worlds was how much Alina has grown. Not physically, but mentally. Her eyes are already the eyes of a grown up, who has been through a lot. While I am a bit sad that a 16-year old brilliant skater had to go through so much doubts, pain and hate, at the end she became a true warrior. In that sense, I wouldn’t write her off in the competition with the 3As, because they are still kids. Alina is the proof that what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.

I completely agree with that (not that I would disagree with what you've written about other skaters).

From the perspective of performing, being in the character (I try not to use "selling the program", skater is not a travelling salesman who tries to persuade you that his goods is the best and you can't live without it), from all those views Alina is completely adult skater, who understands to what she's doing on the ice and why. She's grown not only physically but mentally as well. One of the main goals of Eteri's team for the season 2018/2019 was to show Alina not just as an athlete with perfect technical elements but as a skater who is able to deliver performances in which she is a character, with individual personality, mind, fears and desires. And that's what Alina proved on 110 % (with some littel help of the choreos :biggrin:). I also think that all this she came through, while much of it was very unpleasant (injuries, slander, mistrust for her abilities from others and in one moment even from herself), was a valuable experience that had positive impact into Alina's performances. She really understood what is to try hard for something. Not that she wouldn't train hard beforo, but as she herself said, in the previous two seasons most of thins were easy for her, "they said jump, I jumped" or something like that and now she was in the situation when many things didn't go well soon.

In her interview after the test skates to the answer what she wishes the most Alina replied she wishes calmness. I think that is the best I can wish her even for any firther season that will come.:thumbsup:
 

LynsJ

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
I don't know about anyone else, but I would just LOVE to see an older Lady actually train and learn a quad for next season, and maybe even have a completely unexpected worlds team consisting of three 20 year olds. I think that would make the season interesting FOR SURE

I agree! I really think after the season of surprises we just had, there’s no reason it can’t happen! Maybe not all older girls on the world team but I think we will see one of them.
 

zounger

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Then we have different opinions. First, this competition is important to both Russia and USA who lost the Olympic team competition to Canada and may want to build the foundation for future team successes. Second, this competition is important to Japan who would like to show in Japan that their ladies can win over the Russians. Third, this competition is important to Liza because of the first two reasons and as an opening statement for the next season that she is still there and she wants to be in Group A. I am sure that she has been preparing for this one very seriously skipping bowling, contemplations under sakura, and other pleasant activities that you described.

The bowling etc. was the sarcastic bit, that probably I shouldn't include in my comment. My main point is, independently of who are the two skaters involved (it can be whoever), the volunerability of your argument to justify something a posteriori for something that happened a priori. The selection was done (Russian Nationals/Cup of Russia/voting) what you do after that, for me doesn't prove anything.

As for the significance of the competition. If it was so significant No1 and No2 (whoever they are, I'm confused with RusFed) of the national team should have gone. The sure thing is Liza is not considered No 1 & 2.

For Liza it might be important, but it was sacrificed for the shows.
 

zounger

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Thanks for this comment. I‘ve just rewatched her SP because I couldn‘t remember all of it and I have to agree with some points here.

I think the transitions in her SP are some of the better ones.

So, judging by her performance at Worlds:

I really like the turns she does into the 3F. Also, they changed her lutz entry, which I think helped her make the whole jump more stable. And the charlotte into the 2A is the highlight of course. And she‘s so consistent with it now! Last year she was trying to do the same at the beginning of the season but they had to change it. Pretty impressive, considering this is the year after the Olympics and she‘s had to deal with some problems. The Charlotte also goes well with the music. The only thing I wish they would have changed here, is the Ina Bauer. She just doesn‘t hold it long enough and while I get that it was a transition into the final spin, she could have timed it a bit differently. This way it would have matched more with the music too and would have had more of a purpose.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CwW5B9-OJsQ

I can‘t put a timestamp, but it‘s at 2:25 onwards here.

Overall, though, I have to admit that my criticism of the transitions in the SP probably wasn‘t entirely justified. I‘m not talking about music cuts here but that‘s a topic that might not need further discussing. I think, generally, the SP is the better choreographed program of the two, which is ironic, because I enjoy the FS a lot more. But it just has these great moments, like the Charlotte into 2A or the music box spin.

Also, Worlds was definitely Alina‘s best performance of POTO. Before, she always seemed a bit stiff and unnatural, as if she didn‘t quite feel the music. This time, she really impressed me. It seemed genuine and her expressions were more natural. And the end was touching, really fit the with the feeling of the program. I think if she goes from there, allows her personality to shine more on the ice, that would be great. Her step sequence here was a lot better, too. She does have a problem with her posture, she hunches over and her crossovers look laboured. But I quite like her step sequences. (in both programs) She doesn‘t have the deepest edges and not the best skatig skills either but what she does is difficult and she pulls it off pretty well. She seems to take more time there and it‘s easier to recognize her turns. Especially in the SP.

Now: Carmen. So, I‘m gonna say it: I think it‘s a program with a lot of potential. Simply because Daniil tried to make it unusual, like he did with Black Swan as well. (and POTO, too, even though the music cuts were a bit too much for me there) I‘ll take Worlds again because while it wasn‘t her best performance wise, it‘s the most recent one:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2dwNerVv9kY

I like the beginning. She seems fierce and cheeky and smiles. And most of all I like, that Alina loves the program. I think you can see it. Which is why the transitions bother me the most in this program. Because I feel like the way the program is constructed, it doesn‘t give her room to breathe, to just enjoy for a moment and get into character. Some examples:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2dwNerVv9kY

1:47

The moment after the Charlotte into 2A. It‘s a highlight, a great transition and so difficult. Why is there a need for this leg kicking afterwards? She could have timed the 2A to land directly on the musical accent and it would have had a much better effect. (I think she did that in the beginning of the season but still had the leg kicking thing) Let the moment have its purpose, let her hold the landing. Then, when the music starts to get faster again, she can go on with the choreography. There is simply no need for this transition, it‘s just “there“. The Charlotte is beautiful in itself, it fits the music and definitely should earn high GOE.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2dwNerVv9kY

2:44 next

Choreo sequence. I wouldn‘t say it‘s a particularly good one simply because of the fact that it‘s not really memorable. I also don‘t get why there is any need to have this 1 second moves, the short Ina Bauer into the second one that I can‘t name (sorry) It doesn‘t have any purpose and it just looks akward. We all know Alina can hold a Ina Bauer! We have seen her do it beautifully in shows. Why not do it here? Again, there is no significant advantage, she doesn‘t get more points, she just sort of does it because she can. And to me, that‘s not good choreography.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2dwNerVv9kY

3:00 next

That was actually the worst transition of the program for me. She just landed that 3Lz-3Lo! It‘s looking great! And suddenly she just pushes her leg back and then pulls it over her head but not completely and holds it there for like one second, then lets go of it again and skates on...? Why? What‘s the purpose of this transition? It doesn‘t match the music, it doesn‘t look particularly pleasing, it adds nothing to the program or the story... Again, one of the two (or none...) would have been entirely sufficient, she would have got the GOE bullet. And it wouldn‘t have looked as busy and forced.

I do like the transition after her final 3F, though. I think it fits, it‘s not too much and there‘s natural flow into the next part of the choreography.

Her step sequence was good! I liked it. Usually, by then she starts to really sell the program which makes it all the more powerful. And even though the step sequence in itself is pretty short, it does seem to me like she takes more time and her turns and steps are pretty clear. In general, I think both of her step sequences are pretty well done. And she never loses levels even if the rest of the program didn’t go well which is really impressive! Same for the spins, btw. I think there was like one spin she didn‘t get level 4 on this season? Who else has a track record like this? I think Alina is the best spinner in the current ladies senior field and her GOE and levels agree with that. :)

Overall, I think the main problem that I had with Alina‘s program(s) this season was the lack of purpose for some transitions and the missing flow that went with it. I like her as a skater because I think she has lots to give but I feel like these crazy exits sometimes didn‘t show her in the best light. They looked as if she had to put in a lot of effort, and if she had been allowed to just hold the landings a tad longer and then continue with the choreography, it would have seemed more natural.

I might have to explain why I said Alina won despite of her transitions. That wasn‘t well worded and while I don‘t take it back, I‘ll explain what I meant by it:

Rusfed wanted Eteri and co to make her programs easier. Already at the beginning of the season. They didn‘t. And, in hindsight, I think it might have been a smarter thing to do. Alina really was struggling this season, even Eteri admitted it. She was growing up, had to get used to a new body, etc. Her skating just wasn‘t as “easy“ as last year, due to all these changes. So, if you have a skater you know faces some problems, what do you do? Make the programs even busier, even if said skater already is slower, needs to put in more effort? Especially since Alina already had the highest technical content only behind Rika AND a PCS advantage over her. So, yeah, I do feel like this was kind of unnecessary. Less transitions but more focus put on flow and getting used to her new body would have hurt her in no way, on the contrary, I think it would‘ve helped! She actually would have had a better chance to be clean and her scores would have stayed the same/be even higher. If it was to stay in contention with Rika... Well, there‘s the thing: Rika still is inconsistent with the 3As. If she lands them, though, she beats everyone in the current field. Including Alina. The ridiculously difficult transitions didn‘t make any difference here, they only add to the PCS which are very high for Alina anyway. So, if beating Rika was the goal, then staying clean should be the main focus. She can stay in contention easily/beat her when she doesn‘t land all 3 3As (which was most of the time) Because no matter how difficult the transitions could possibly be, if Rika landed those 3 3As, they couldn‘t beat her anyway. If there was even one mistake... well, Alina‘s in the game again.

That being said, it‘s Alina who became World Champion. I‘ve said it multiple times and I will say it again: I admire this girl. As a skater, as a person, as an athlete. And while I have yet to feel touched by her skating, I appreciate certain qualities about her. And I always enjoy watching her, even if her programs sometimes give me headaches. :laugh:

As for next season: I hope they let Alina choose. She has nothing left to prove, she can skate only for her enjoyment. Of course, if she stays as a competitive skater, she will still try to win (and nothing wrong with that!), but there‘s nothing wrong with experiencing a bit. Give me sassy, rebellious Alina! I loved Survivor-Alina and it would be cool to see something a bit more modern for her. Daniil said they will try an unusual image for her already so let‘s see. I‘m hopeful.

Appriciate your time and your opinion, even though I think you will not have been best friends with Chilon of Sparta.

You didn't reply much about my actual comment which was the "luck" of flow. My understanding is that you mean by "flow" the connection beetwen choreographic elements? Because I don't know if that is called flow.

I will not go element by element, I don't have the time neither I think there is a point. I'm not here to change peoples minds neither I want. About Carmen, just keep in mind that Alina is interpreting balletic version of it. Yes influenced by her last season program or Danihl mother or whatever. Watch this ballet part https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDMcWSYali8 . Why is the dancer rising her leg and all? I don't see any purpose...
 

Sugar Coated

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 20, 2018
The bowling etc. was the sarcastic bit, that probably I shouldn't include in my comment. My main point is, independently of who are the two skaters involved (it can be whoever), the volunerability of your argument to justify something a posteriori for something that happened a priori. The selection was done (Russian Nationals/Cup of Russia/voting) what you do after that, for me doesn't prove anything.

As for the significance of the competition. If it was so significant No1 and No2 (whoever they are, I'm confused with RusFed) of the national team should have gone. The sure thing is Liza is not considered No 1 & 2.

For Liza it might be important, but it was sacrificed for the shows.
I guarantee that if Zhenya had come in like 20th there would be a ton of post hoc analysis of the decision made. Her performance doesn’t prove it was the “right” decision but it definitely silenced the critics. Rusfed made a decision and was rewarded with athletes finishing first, third, and eighth. Could it have been different if they sent a different team? Sure, of course we don’t know. But they got amazing results with the team they sent so you really can’t fault their decisions even if it felt unfair to Liza.
 

zounger

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
I guarantee that if Zhenya had come in like 20th there would be a ton of post hoc analysis of the decision made. Her performance doesn’t prove it was the “right” decision but it definitely silenced the critics. Rusfed made a decision and was rewarded with athletes finishing first, third, and eighth. Could it have been different if they sent a different team? Sure, of course we don’t know. But they got amazing results with the team they sent so you really can’t fault their decisions even if it felt unfair to Liza.

The same applies for that case too. I think I made my self clear.
 

[email protected]

Medalist
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
The bowling etc. was the sarcastic bit, that probably I shouldn't include in my comment. My main point is, independently of who are the two skaters involved (it can be whoever), the volunerability of your argument to justify something a posteriori for something that happened a priori. The selection was done (Russian Nationals/Cup of Russia/voting) what you do after that, for me doesn't prove anything.

As for the significance of the competition. If it was so significant No1 and No2 (whoever they are, I'm confused with RusFed) of the national team should have gone. The sure thing is Liza is not considered No 1 & 2.

For Liza it might be important, but it was sacrificed for the shows.

You are right. That's why Japan puts forward their top guns: Rika and Kaori. As for Russia, I understand that both Alina and Zhenya have serious health issues.
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
3. Anastasia Tarakanova is another skater I adore. Probably the one I get most emotionally engaged with. I hope nest year is hers to shine on JGP and at junior worlds. There is so much power in her skating and her personality on ice, I hope she learns to control it and rule it.

I just hope she grits it out and peaks in the next Olympic season. Probably my favorite skater on the ice at the moment too. The girl just skates with so much passion as if her life depends on every step. Sadly she’s gonna probably need a 3a or quad by then but I wouldn’t be surprised if she got them both.

I really really appreciate the programs and development we’ve seen from her last season. I think the Plushenko sass is a perfect fit for her. We won’t soon forget her rocking the fortnite dance in the KnC. :love:
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
......

About Carmen, just keep in mind that Alina is interpreting balletic version of it. Yes influenced by her last season program or Danihl mother or whatever. Watch this ballet part https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDMcWSYali8 . Why is the dancer rising her leg and all? I don't see any purpose...

This is great!!!! Thank you so much for sharing. By far my favorite musical selection from Carmen. It’s interesting to compare the ballet to her performance.

I thought Madison Kocian did an amazing floor routine to this music. If anyone is interested in watching a great performance from another to compare just click ——> HERE
 

Alexz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Country
United-States
ok. These were circulating among some of my old Russian buddies and other Rus fans online. Hilarious, but so true. These gives us a good idea about cut-throat horror of Russian Nats in the upcoming season. Next season is going to be like: if you go through Rus Nats and get out alive with a medal = you def will medal at Worlds, easy-peasy.

"Basically, team Russia selection process"
http://s16.directupload.net/images/user/190409/uz5wiefy.jpg


"Team Kazakhstan selection process"
http://s16.directupload.net/images/user/190409/5crdcyiw.jpg

:rofl:
 

Alexz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Country
United-States
This is great!!!! Thank you so much for sharing. By far my favorite musical selection from Carmen. It’s interesting to compare the ballet to her performance.

I thought Madison Kocian did an amazing floor routine to this music. If anyone is interested in watching a great performance from another to compare just click ——> HERE

About Carmen, just keep in mind that Alina is interpreting balletic version of it. Yes influenced by her last season program or Danihl mother or whatever. Watch this ballet part https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDMcWSYali8 . Why is the dancer rising her leg and all? I don't see any purpose...

Vishneva was great in some contemporary ballet pieces lately. When it comes to classical ballet Lopatkina is more like my jazz. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zie4d4MbGo I seen her live once. I was visiting friends in St Pete and they helped me to get the tix to Mariinsky theater (new building).
 

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
I just hope she grits it out and peaks in the next Olympic season. Probably my favorite skater on the ice at the moment too. The girl just skates with so much passion as if her life depends on every step. Sadly she’s gonna probably need a 3a or quad by then but I wouldn’t be surprised if she got them both.

I really really appreciate the programs and development we’ve seen from her last season. I think the Plushenko sass is a perfect fit for her. We won’t soon forget her rocking the fortnite dance in the KnC. :love:

To me that means forward thinking, you need to work on at least one quad or 3A already (I know they've been trying with 4t and 4lo), and have that element stable in your programs by 2021-2022.

You can pray this generation doesn't last or they get trapped by coaching changes, but Eteri is making sure they'll have those tickets for the Olympics with potentially the future champion, either with a World champion or with a new one who just peaked at the right moment. They have such a successful track record already and because of the reputation they can pick from the best pool every year.

Plus even if you ignore that group, Tuktamysheva already has the 3A, we're seeing more japanese skaters attempting it, there are few others who have been trying, we're entering a new era.

It will be interesting to see the judging because quads and 3A inevitably mean more mistakes, more falls, and as we saw at JGPF Trusova making mistakes with quads lost to a clean Kostornaya without quads and 3A, but my theory is that won't be the case most of the time: that was in Canada with a different judging approach, we saw with the men, the top skaters still get insane scores and insane components even with 1-2 falls.
 

Spirals for Miles

Anna Shcherbakova is my World Champion
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
As a fun game to start the thread how about we all say who we are excited for next season. My list is as follows.

Evgenia Medvedeva (Fan girl obviously, look at my profile picture! :laugh:)

Alena Kostornaia (So excited to see what programs she will skate to, I hope for nothing but top 2 placements for this precious little cherub.)

Anastasia Gubanova (She did not come to play this season.)

Honorary mention - Alina Zagitova (Someone give this poor girl some good content, she deserves a strong and powerful program. Give her something like a strong firebird or a fierce tango, her program content is literally shouting out for it!)

My list (short version):

- Alina Zagitova
- Evgenia Medvedeva
- Anna Shcherbakova
- Alexandra Trusova
- Alena Kostornaya
- Anna Tarusina
- Sofia Samodurova
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Sorry that might have got a little lost in translation. I meant that she had a good showing for the second half of this season and I’m very excited to see where it takes her next season. I meant it like she didn’t come into the season to just do the minimum she came to show off especially at Russian Cup and she wasn’t put off by the talent she was up against. A very elegant yet powerful skater.
Thank you for the clarification and I agree.
 

j00mla

Made in USSR
Final Flight
Joined
Jan 2, 2017
My wishlist for ladies GP Final:
Alina
Alexandra
Alёna
Anna
Elizabet
Evgenia
(in alphabetical order)
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
My wishlist for ladies GP Final:
Alina
Alexandra
Alёna
Anna
Elizabet
Evgenia
(in alphabetical order)

They need to expand the field for the Grand Prix finals on the Junior and senior levels just like they need to with those countries that dominate a discipline get more than just three spots maximum. Kazakhstan has the same amount of spots as Russia for the ladies World championships next year is a joke. I know it's the system but sometimes the system needs to be tweaked to be improved.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Sorry that might have got a little lost in translation. I meant that she had a good showing for the second half of this season and I’m very excited to see where it takes her next season. I meant it like she didn’t come into the season to just do the minimum she came to show off especially at Russian Cup and she wasn’t put off by the talent she was up against. A very elegant yet powerful skater.
Thank you for your explanation it makes a lot of sense now. :)
 
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