2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

ancientpeas · Sep 16, 2019

You can debate differences of opinion without making them personal.

It is fine to love one skater more than all the others and to debate others about it. You can have any opinion about it you want to have. Please do not try silence other people who are expressing their opinions in a reasonable way.

You can also be critical of a skater without it being hateful or prejudice against them. However if all you are is negative about a skater then you need to consider if the problem isn't with you and not them. It is rare that a skater has no redeeming features.

I always find that if I listen (or read) with an open mind I often learn more and grow more as a fan than if I am doggedly trying to defend my ground as a fan of such and such a skater.

SkateSkates · Sep 16, 2019

ancientpeas said:
You can debate differences of opinion without making them personal.

It is fine to love one skater more than all the others and to debate others about it. You can have any opinion about it you want to have. Please do not try silence other people who are expressing their opinions in a reasonable way.

You can also be critical of a skater without it being hateful or prejudice against them. However if all you are is negative about a skater then you need to consider if the problem isn't with you and not them. It is rare that a skater has no redeeming features.

I always find that if I listen (or read) with an open mind I often learn more and grow more as a fan than if I am doggedly trying to defend my ground as a fan of such and such a skater.

This entire post. Thank you.

ramed · Sep 16, 2019

andromache said:
Liza, OTOH, is probably pretty darn close to her PCS ceiling.

Not Liza's personal ceiling, that's her ceiling within the limits of Mishin's coaching school as it is. She badly needs a more talented and modern choreographer (and so do other Mishin's students). I wish someone could persuade Mishin to hire one (and let him/her do the job indeed) but the hope is slim.

Scott512 said:
... Poor Taurasina

Diana Taurasina? :laugh:

sweetice · Sep 16, 2019

ramed said:
Diana Taurasina?

Scott512 said:
Poor Taurasina.

It look like a blend between Taurine and the italian "Asina" (female donkey) :shock2:

Blacknight · Sep 16, 2019

ssffww said:
So, if someone disagrees or sees a skater in a different light than you do, they must be prejudice and hating? Seriously? It's nasty comments like these that make me avoid Goldenskate forums.

If someone disagrees or sees a things in a different light than you do, they must be prejudice and hating? Seriously?

The terr-st said before push the button.

Just a kidding

I never liked hypocrites

sweetice · Sep 16, 2019

*~RussianBleux~* said:
But Tarusina said she has no competitions planned. How late do the cup events run? If she will be able to compete in say November then surely she would have an idea now. Or maybe she just didn’t want to say anything so no one gets their hopes up. I am crossing my fingers for her, but in my heart I fear that missing the JGP leaves her very little chance to be competitive at Nationals.

Also I’m wondering if it’s possible that Frolova’s spot in Croatia is still a placeholder for Kanysheva? Kanysheva must be almost ready to compete since she is assigned in Italy. Could they be assessing her this week and if deemed ready it will be her instead of Frolova? How late can they make this switch?

On the same note if Frolova somehow wins in Croatia then is Alena’s spot gone? Because they will want to try to get Frolova the final and it won’t matter for Kanysheva with only one spot?

No competitions at all ? Damn... we can only hope that Anna regain her condition before november. The fourth stage of CoR is between 11 and 15.

I think too that Frolova's spot it's still a placeholder for Kanysheva but the chances that she's going to skate and gain also the last spot are growing each day.

Amei · Sep 16, 2019

ramed said:
Not Liza's personal ceiling, that's her ceiling within the limits of Mishin's coaching school as it is. She badly needs a more talented and modern choreographer (and so do other Mishin's students). I wish someone could persuade Mishin to hire one (and let him/her do the job indeed) but the hope is slim.

The problem is not them hiring a choreographer but what they do to it once the choreographer leaves.

colormyworld240 · Sep 16, 2019

Are Alina/Alena/Sasha not doing challengers? Seems unwise, as it's always good to get a new SB before the GPs.

Also, sorry guys, Alina hasn't retired. She's actually a better skater than she was when she won the olympics and world's which may be difficult for the "I'm so concerned for her, her jumps are getting worse, she's going to retire" group of people to process. Clearly, she's a threat to a lot of people. Yes, I can agree Alena has better skating skills than her, but I also think she has better skating skills than every other Russian senior. I wonder if the same people who keep bringing this up will continue to do so when it's not Alena vs. Alina on the GPs but Alena vs. Evgenia (and everyone else) for a spot on the world team. I suspect not, as this has never been brought up before when they all competed together at RusNats. Only when it's against Alina, it's not belittling. But there's a pattern that whenever any comparison is brought up to another skater, it's belittling, coming from the same group of people. This is my opinion and not an attack, for the record.

jackiej13 · Sep 17, 2019

Sasha will be at Nepela this weekend. Also, for some reason the Finlandia entries aren’t out yet

theharleyquinn · Sep 17, 2019

[email protected] said:
Both Alina and Alena are outstanding skaters - one of the best that figure skating ever had. However, there is a big difference between them - their track record. Alina had her load of injuries and health related issues. She experienced several major falls and setback: Milano, Rusnats, the Europeans and others. However, at the key moments she stood up and shined. And this makes the difference between a good and a great athlete. Alena has to earn Alina's pcs through the body of work - we might dislike it but this is how this sport works. And this is true even when to someone's "objective" analysis Alena should beat Alina on pcs. Because there is no 100% objective analysis of artistry, intepretation, and even skating skills especially when you have to factor various bullets in one aggregate score.

I have another point to my argument. Who is the best actor/actress or singer or artist? Can it be decided by a panel of experts or you need to listen to people and see if they are willing to pay? May be, both things are necessary. Figure skating which is partially an art takes this "star" notion from the show business. When Alina enters the rink either in Russia or in Japan the cheers are not comparable with Alena's. Alina is a star. The judges know that the public wants to see her and they cannot but be influenced by that. And I don't think that it is bad: figure skating needs not just good skaters - it needs stars.

I don't see how it's useful to compare both of their track records when Alina has several senior seasons on Alyona.

And of course Alyona wouldn't get the same amount of cheers. She doesn't have the OGM and she doesn't do a lot of shows, especially overseas. I also don't see how being a good skater and being a star are somehow mutually exclusive. I'd actually argue that Alina became a star first because she was a good skater/competitor. She certainly began getting higher PCS more for the latter than the former.

SkateSkates · Sep 17, 2019

Stasya and Maria will be there this weekend as well. Alina has not announced any challenger assignments so maybe she is just doing Japan Open? There isn’t anyone assigned to Nebelhorn now so perhaps they are holding that spot for her in case she wants to go. Aliona said she was most likely doing Finlandia at the test skates but as mentioned above the entries haven’t been published for whatever reason. The only other lady on the GP without a challenger is Sima - not sure if she will get an assignment or not.

Watch · Sep 17, 2019

SkateSkates said:
Stasya and Maria will be there this weekend as well. Alina has not announced any challenger assignments so maybe she is just doing Japan Open? There isn’t anyone assigned to Nebelhorn now so perhaps they are holding that spot for her in case she wants to go. Aliona said she was most likely doing Finlandia at the test skates but as mentioned above the entries haven’t been published for whatever reason. The only other lady on the GP without a challenger is Sima - not sure if she will get an assignment or not.

Isn't it likely that Alina's going to do Finlandia as well? I kind of assumed that.

SkateSkates · Sep 17, 2019

Watch said:
Isn't it likely that Alina's going to do Finlandia as well? I kind of assumed that.

Not sure. Finlandia is the weekend right after Japan Open so I assumed she wouldn’t do this event. But who knows maybe she will!

zounger · Sep 17, 2019

I don't see any particular reason for Alina to do a challenger in this month. Neither for the next.

ruga · Sep 17, 2019

I think if Alina wants to do a Challenger, she should be sent to Ice Star. It takes place about two weeks before IDF and two weeks after JO. I don't think she would have time to get ready for Finlandia. JO ends on Sunday, and there could be some sponsorship events. Around Thursday she'd have to be in Finland. Sounds quite stressful IMO.

samkrut@mail.ru · Sep 17, 2019

theharleyquinn said:
I don't see how it's useful to compare both of their track records when Alina has several senior seasons on Alyona.

And of course Alyona wouldn't get the same amount of cheers. She doesn't have the OGM and she doesn't do a lot of shows, especially overseas. I also don't see how being a good skater and being a star are somehow mutually exclusive. I'd actually argue that Alina became a star first because she was a good skater/competitor. She certainly began getting higher PCS more for the latter than the former.

I don't see how what I said contradicts what you said. If my language failed me I shall quickly rephrase. It's normal that Alyona does not get the same pcs as Alina now. Although they are both outstanding skaters Alina's body of work has made her a star. And figure skating being partially an art favors stars with pcs bonus.

Fluture · Sep 17, 2019

[email protected] said:
I don't see how what I said contradicts what you said. If my language failed me I shall quickly rephrase. It's normal that Alyona does not get the same pcs as Alina now. Although they are both outstanding skaters Alina's body of work has made her a star. And figure skating being partially an art favors stars with pcs bonus.

And somehow that‘s okay when it happens with Alina but not any other skater? If I need to remind some people in here, Liza is a former World Champion too, certainly she would have earned her high PCS over Anna as well? But apparently not. I do not agree with this thinking, by the way. Everyone should earn their scores no matter what you did at past competitions. Thus, Anna‘s PCS should have been rightfully higher than Liza‘s. But the outrage some of you showed, especially towards Liza, her programs and Mishin is almost comical when you use the same excuse for Alina that you condemned before for another skater.

zounger · Sep 17, 2019

[email protected] said:
I don't see how what I said contradicts what you said. If my language failed me I shall quickly rephrase. It's normal that Alyona does not get the same pcs as Alina now. Although they are both outstanding skaters Alina's body of work has made her a star. And figure skating being partially an art favors stars with pcs bonus.

What does the body of work has to do with the scores. She should be scored of what she does on the ice.

ramed · Sep 17, 2019

Amei said:
The problem is not them hiring a choreographer but what they do to it once the choreographer leaves.

The key words in the post were "and let <the choreographer> do the job indeed" which in my world mean not only creating a choreo but also working with the athlete to make it real. Mishin needs a resident, in-house choreographer of course.

moriel · Sep 17, 2019

ramed said:
The key words in the post were "and let <the choreographer> do the job indeed" which in my world mean not only creating a choreo but also working with the athlete to make it real. Mishin needs a resident, in-house choreographer of course.

I don't think Mishin's issue is lack of an in-house choreographer. In fact, chances are there is one.
I think the issue is how the team SEES choreography (I mean, he sees it as ok to take a choreo and then replace the music. This is clearly not about simply getting someone to work on choreo at the rink full time).

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

ancientpeas

The Notorious SEW

SkateSkates

ramed

sweetice

Praise the Ice God

Blacknight

sweetice

Praise the Ice God

Amei

colormyworld240

jackiej13

theharleyquinn

SkateSkates

Watch

SkateSkates

zounger

ruga

[email protected]

Medalist

Fluture

zounger

ramed

moriel

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