2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 426 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

zounger

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Why not? It's important to do a challenger before the GPs to set the tone and get a new SBs. Especially if her biggest competitors, Sasha, Alena, Anna, Evgenia, and Rika will already go into GPs with a SBs. Typically (though not always - see the past week), challengers are more lenient in their scoring so it could possibly give way to a higher score. But even if that's not the case, it's still beneficial to have a showing and set the bar for her own scores before the important competitions. And of course to see how she's ranked amongst her compatriots which is very important this year.

My reasoning is around three points: first I think she needs a continuous training time since she lost some during summer because of the shows. The test skates was not bad but still the programs and physical condition are under development. Second she competes non stop at the highest level and shows for three season in a row. It will be more clever to reduce the competitions she enters, injures are larking like sharks. Third there is no emergency in her case to establish a season best since she is ranked high and will not have problem to make the last group.

Even JO in the above context is not considered important. But because of Japan and since you are going by invitation plus the profitability makes it difficult to refuse. Depending on how she will do there though, I can see an assignment to Minsk later.
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
My reasoning is around three points: first I think she needs a continuous training time since she lost some during summer because of the shows. The test skates was not bad but still the programs and physical condition are under development. Second she competes non stop at the highest level and shows for three season in row. It will be more clever to reduce the competitions she enters, injures are larking like sharks. Third there is no emergency in her case to establish a season best since she is ranked high and will not have problem to make the last group.

Even JO in the above context is not considered important. But because of Japan and since you are going by invitation plus the profitability makes it difficult refuse. Depending on how she will do there though, I can see an assignment to Minsk later.

"Not bad". You reminded me the scene from the Clavell's novel King Rat, when Peter Marlowe explains to King that for a decent Englishman "not bad" is the highest superlative he can express :laugh:
 

zounger

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
"Not bad". You reminded me the scene from the Clavell's novel King Rat, when Peter Marlowe explains to King that for a decent Englishman "not bad" is the highest superlative he can express :laugh:

Indeed. :laugh: ... some foibles I got from my Bristolian era...
 

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
Thoroughly upset about Kanysheva's untimely injury. Does this mean she will have to participate in both junior and senior Russian Cup stages if she wants to qualify for junior or senior nationals? And if that is the case, we'd better pray that her injury heals as quickly as possible, as the first event is already starting soon, and she will probably have to participate in all of the following four (unless, the rules were much nicer and allowed you to qualify for jr nationals via senior Russian Cup results). Such a beautiful skater struck with such an unfortunate injury! Hopefully we can see her beautiful programs and enjoy her amazing skating at Junior Worlds.

Competeting at the Russian Cup Group Stages will not be easy for Kanysheva as well. You have to skate really well to go through to SenNats or JunNats.

This is what was needed last year to Q for senior Rusnats:
Gulyakova 210+210 Q
Tarusina 204+209 Q
Gubanova 194+211 Q
Talalaykina 199+202 Q
Nugumanova 201+196 (Q when Radionova WD)
Vasilieva 203+193 (Q when Tuktamysheva WD)

And the next 6 that didn't make it (I wish RusNats would add an additional group)
Sinitsyna 188+199
Shilenko 187+193
Sakhanovich 185+191
Gracheva 191+183
Tsibinova 189+176
Ogoreltseva 179+181

Both Kanysheva and Tarusina will have to skate their best at Russian Cup if they want to go to RusNats. And they are both in desperate need of a good SB result (around 200 points) from Challengers if they want to get GP assignments next year.
 

Tolstoj

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
just gonna throw this out there- slow the speed down to .5 or .25. no UR in sight.

https://youtu.be/iP-SJ3EYJyg?t=115

the 3t in the lutz-toe in the free skate deserved the < more than the loop in the short program.

The time for mocking POTO has expired already, I think. But if you are crediting Alina's highest PCS of the season in SP on the account of the reputation, than I can say that e. g. on worlds everybody from the top had a reputation, like two times world champion, rising star of the land of the rising Sun, "true musical skater" etc. Yet somehow Alina with her - according to you - atrocious choreo got the highest score all the way. No, it wasn't because it was atrocious, but because it allowed Alina to show all her skills.

P. S. You have some reputation as well.

Of course other skaters benefit reputation (Medvedeva included), have you watched figure skating in the past 10-20 years? You say i have reputation too, but at least i have no bias towards a club or another, when they make mistakes like changing a music but keeping the choreography or recycling programs with the exact same costume they all deserve criticism.

As for the POTO program, i stand by my opinion, it's a bad program. She got the marks because she has the skills, she skated clean, and she is the Olympic Champion, and because judges rarely penalize a bad composition; this season programs are better

No matter if Mishin wants to accept or not, but Eteri is currently the number 1 coach in Russia for ladies (if not at all), and that's because she's always keeping up with the development of the sport. At least her students always get their high scores with actual achievements. Yes, very often their PCS might be a couple of points too high, but you never get the feeling that this is all about politicking and dirty games. Which was the case, for me personally, last weekend when Anna was down-scored not only on PCS, which yes is arguable, but was also unfairly cut on TES.

Well, you're right for the components, but technically let's not forget that most Eteri skaters often get away with a not so great lutz technique, with bad body position on take off, blade assist, sometimes overlooked edge issues (much like other skaters).

All issues that judges simply don't watch, so you get a +2, +3 with a bad lutz jump.

In an ideal correct judging these are all points should be deducted with edge calls and negative GOE and these are all issues Liza doesn't have. I mentioned before at Lombardia Trophy in the free skate Liza's lutz should have received much higher GOE than Anna's 3ltz.

There are aspects where Liza is overscored and others where she is underscored, much like other skaters.
 

Ice Dance

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
There's plenty of pressure for the junior Korean ladies. They have a competitive field at home, limited berths on the JGP--with competitive athletes filling them--and young talent coming up every year over the last three seasons. And everyone wants to make the Junior World team, where there has been more competitive talent than there have been spots for the past three seasons (and will be so again this season). Which consistently puts pressure on those top athletes to deliver & earn more for the following season. Meanwhile, the athletes old enough to age-up need SB scores and world standing points that are high enough to guarantee GP spots because they have no GP host backing to trade berths on their behalf or to offer free host berths for talented juniors that have no ability to earn 2 places. As it is, there are three competitive ladies in the senior Korean field with only two spots. (And the frigging Yuna Kim legacy to face in the media). It's a lot, and all of these junior ladies compete at senior nationals every year where--for the past several seasons--junior ladies have been expected to contend for the podium & the national title.
 

Edwin

СделаноВХрустальном!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
Canadian commentator Ted Barton - about Trusova, Valiyeva and the age limit in figure skating.

We talked with the main expert on juniors.

Ted Barton is the Canadian counterpart of Tat’yana Tarasova. He was a promising skater, but injuries did not allow him to perform at senior level. Then he worked as a coach and prepared several winners of the World Championships and the Olympics. He worked as a judge and functionary in the International Skating Union (ISU) and the Figure Skating Federation of Canada. He currently serves as vice president of Skate Canada.

An important achievement of Barton - he was one of the first who spoke out in favour of the current judging system, which replaced the archaic six-point one, supported the exclusion of mandatory figures from the competitive program, and insisted on the technicalisation of refereeing. So, according to his project in 2006, ISU first introduced video replays for judges. Now special cameras for the judiciary are an indispensable attribute of international competitions.
At the same time, the average viewer best remembers Barton as a commentator. He commented on the largest Canadian TV channels for many years, and recently he went on international air: ISU launched its YouTube broadcasts with the stages of the Junior Grand Prix.

Barton does not just comment on the stages of the Grand Prix, he has become an integral part of these stages. He shoots several reports from each city, extended interviews. So, in one of the programs, Ted talked with Eteri Tutberidze - the coach of Alina Zagitova and Aleksandra Trusova.

In an interview with BUSINESS Online, Barton shared his views on the prospects of the Russian juniors, expressed his attitude to the age limit in figure skating, and spoke about the technological innovations and plans of the ISU to introduce an artistic program.

“I AM ALREADY MANY YEARS IN FIGURE SKATING, BUT I HAVE NOT SEEN SUCH INTEREST BEFORE”

Q: Ted, how often did you visit Russia?
A: If I’m not mistaken, I am in Russia for my eighth time. I first went back in 1982 with my athletes, when I worked as a coach. Then I haven't been to Russia for a long time. I first worked from Russia only two years ago - as a commentator at the junior Grand Prix stage in Saransk.

Q: Do you now mainly cover junior sports?
A: Yes. But we - I, Skate Canada and ISU - are thinking how to develop further. We are considering different options for how to broadcast senior competitions and other important events. Of course, viewers want to watch the European Championship, the Championship of Four Continents, the World Championships. But the fact is that even ISU can’t just start broadcasting the World Championships on YouTube. There are a lot of legal and bureaucratic issues. But in the future, something new can be expected in this direction.

Q: Previously, junior figure skating was only interesting for specialists. Did Russian juniors change this?
A: Yes, and cardinally! The last two years, the competitions with these amazing girls were the best for me as ISU commentator and for ISU's media channel. Trusova, Shcherbakova and Kostornaya made a great contribution to the popularisation of junior disciplines. I have been in figure skating for many years, but I have never seen so much interest in juniors.

These girls deserve such an interest in themselves. They are incredible. When I first saw Trusova two years ago in Brisbane, I immediately realised this girl would be making history. Her name is already in the Guinness Book of Records! Further on in the Grand Prix, Alyona Kostornaya, Anna Shcherbakova made their debuts. Interest only increased. They are not only strong athletes - they are also strong personalities.

Q: Now they have passed into the seniors. Are you upset?
A: Of course not, I'm happy for them! It’s time for them to move to a new stage. I'm in anticipation of their first senior season. Aleksandra Trusova makes her debut at the senior Grand Prix in my homeland, in Canada. We have planned several coverages and broadcasts from Skate Canada, and I'm sure something historic will happen. Perhaps we will see a new world record.

I watched Trusova skate in the Open Test Skates of the Russian national team and still am very impressed. Three quads in one program - unbelievable! And I believe Aleksandra can also skate like that in Canada.

“I DO NOT THINK AN AGE RISE IS NECESSARY”

Q: The place of Trusova, Kostornaya and Shcherbakova was taken over by other juniors. Who would you like to mention first of all?
A: Kamila Valiyeva. She is a special girl, truly special. Her skating is very different from Trusova's. I will not tell who is better - they are just very different. People like Valiyeva rarely appear in figure skating and usually stay long. She is incredibly talented, purposeful, but still very young. WE need to wait a bit to accurately talk about her prospects.

Ksenyia Sinitsyna is also skating quite well. From other countries, I note Alysa Liu and a number of Korean girls. In Korea, figure skating is developing very rapidly. In truth, even better than in Japan.

A: Trusova, Valiyeva, Scherbakova - they became popular and famous at a very young age. How will this affect them?
Q: Every great athlete goes through this. They develop, become stronger, wiser. They are trying to understand themselves, to understand what their main goal in life is. For some, this goal will be sport, for others something else. This is a normal situation. But now their bodies are changing, their minds are changing, they are changing. I look at Trusova, she is growing every month. She is a completely different girl now compared to how she was two years ago in Brisbane. Of course, it is difficult for a teenager at age 13 to live surrounded by attention of people from all over the world. But, on the other hand, such a childhood brings up strong personalities, develops character. I believe they can handle it.

If they also train hard, keep their love for sports, overcome physiological difficulties, nothing prevents juniors from performing at a high level after several years. Moreover, their skating will only progress from year to year. It all depends on themselves.

Q: In Russia, many experts believe that it is necessary to clearly separate junior sports from senior. They offer to raise the age limit to 18 years. What do you think about this?
A: I heard a lot of different arguments both in favour of age qualification and against. But I do not think these age qualifications are necessary. These are artificial measures that impede the development of sports. Without question, we must protect the health of juniors, both psychological and physical. And the current rules can handle this quite well. But if you go too far, we will simply lose all these talented children. They will not reach senior skating, will not wait for their chance, will lose motivation. This cannot be allowed.

Now we see how many young girls do triple Axel's and quadruples. Russian figure skaters set a new standard in women's single skating, at which the rest of the world first looked closely, before beginning to compete under those new conditions. Now quads are taught in the United States, Korea, and Japan. Just because the Russians do not leave them any other choice. This is a sport - everyone wants to win.

Female quads are a completely new phenomenon for figure skating, which you need to get used to. Need to study. Let's see how for long those juniors who have now passed into seniors will be performing. Will they keep their hardest jumps. Elisabet Tursynbayeva, for example, managed to do this.

A balance needs to be maintained. Let the girls develop, learn the most difficult jumps, but at the same time prevent excessive injuries. Sport should not be destructive or dangerous. You need to study all the opinions, listen to both sides and think carefully about everything. But right now, no changes to the rules are worth doing. These will be rash decisions.

In the end, if the Russians with quadruples are only good technically, other skaters can try to beat them with good skating skils. Try a different strategy, try your own way. The door to victory is open to all and this is great. Look at the skating of the Korean women, they have incredible sliding skills. Should the Russians stumble - they are ready to immediately take their place.

“RUSSIA IS VERY STRONG NOW, BUT REMEMBER VANCOUVER?”

Q: You were the first to introduce video replays in figure skating. Now the Japanese are developing a computer refereeing system. Is there a future for this?
A: I think yes. Sport must be objective, which means that the human factor must be minimised. Technology already allows us to do incredible things. I saw how, with the help of a gyroscope, the correct edge was determined on the toepick jumps. The computer calculates everything accurately and in seconds, while a person needs time to see the details. Technical issues, everything related to the quality of the jumps - this should be evaluated by robots, not people.

At the same time, one should not forget that figure skating is also an art. And the aesthetic part of our sport can never be appreciated by any computer, never. Here you need to feel the skating, emotions, artistry. Therefore, living people from the panel of judges will never disappear. We need the right combination of human sensations and technical capabilities. But I am sure that in the future the judging system in figure skating will be seriously revised. Already, technology plays an important role in scoring, but we still have a long way to go to develop these technologies.

Q: When can we expect these changes?
A: Soon. The problem is that tests are needed to develop a computer judging system. Tests are difficult to conduct at training rinks, they requires competitive conditions. The more often new programs will be tested at ISU competitions, the faster we will see them in practice.

You can add more cameras right now. It is very difficult for judges to discern some jumps. Television cameras do not solve the problem, more judging cameras are needed, at different points on the ice rink, with different angles of shooting. It would be ideal if they put on eight cameras.

Q: ISU Vice President Aleksander Lakernik made a proposal to dramatically change figure skating. Divide it into two subsets: an artistic program and a technical one, two sets of medals and new rules. What do you think about it?
A: I heard about this idea before, but only from you now I learned that Lakernik supports it. I'll have to talk to him. The idea is interesting, but so far it is not very clear what exactly such programs look like. I like that the ISU doesn't stand still. People are trying to make the sport more spectacular, interesting, popular. That's great. Figure skating should not be stuck in the past, we must be open to any offers from all over the world. But at the same time, you need to think carefully about everything. The biggest mistake is rash steps. Right now I can’t tell I am in favour or against this initiative. You need to clearly understand what exactly is proposed to change and how it will affect our sport.

Q: In Canada, there are big problems in figure skating. What are they connected with?
A: There are many reasons. But I wouldn't say that everything is very bad. History is cyclical. Now Russia is very strong in figure skating, but remember the Olympics in Vancouver? Then your team had a lot of problems. It is impossible to win constantly.

We had a very successful Olympics in Pyeongchang, won the team tournament, medals in dancing, couples and girls. We had the best team in history. Now almost all the people from this team have left the sport. It takes time for new people to fully step up to their places. Therefore, we must wait. We are waiting for a new generation, and I think that it will not be weaker than the previous one. Because we love figure skating and thousands of people follow the sport.

Q: What does working as a commentator mean to you?
A: It was never the main thing for me. I like to do commentary, but it's just one part of my life. I try to comment honestly, clearly and interestingly. These are the three main things. I hope people enjoy my work. If not, I am always ready for criticism. Criticism is good. It helps us to improve our work.

(c)Рустам Имамов
----
From: https://sport.business-gazeta.ru/article/244911
 

moriel

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Why not? It's important to do a challenger before the GPs to set the tone and get a new SBs. Especially if her biggest competitors, Sasha, Alena, Anna, Evgenia, and Rika will already go into GPs with a SBs. Typically (though not always - see the past week), challengers are more lenient in their scoring so it could possibly give way to a higher score. But even if that's not the case, it's still beneficial to have a showing and set the bar for her own scores before the important competitions. And of course to see how she's ranked amongst her compatriots which is very important this year.

It depends a lot of her shape and training process.
Yes, a SB and competition mileage for the program may be nice. But it also can be not nice - such as bombing the challenger, for example
 

katymay

Medalist
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Thank you Edwin! Love Ted Barton. I didn't know he was instrumental in the ISU scoring changes. God Bless Him.
 

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
Finally! The full list!
Strong SPB ladies line up in the MS category. Will be interesting to see what shape Sima is in about a month out from her GP assignment.

Wow! Gulyakova, Nugumanova, Sakhanovich, Talalaykina all in the same group! And outsiders like Gracheva, Istomina and Tsibinova as well! This will be very interesting.:popcorn:
 

flanker

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Country
Czech-Republic
Of course other skaters benefit reputation (Medvedeva included), have you watched figure skating in the past 10-20 years? You say i have reputation too, but at least i have no bias towards a club or another, when they make mistakes like changing a music but keeping the choreography or recycling programs with the exact same costume they all deserve criticism.

As for the POTO program, i stand by my opinion, it's a bad program. She got the marks because she has the skills, she skated clean, and she is the Olympic Champion, and because judges rarely penalize a bad composition; this season programs are better.

Thank you for admitting that it is not only Alina who - according to you - benefits from reputation (at the same time, I would add, so no particular advantage for Alina, it's the same whether everybody starts on 0 or everybody starts on 100), and that it is not just a reputation but skills (so far it din't look that way from your comments), though I you are appealing to the past 10-20 years I don't know why it was particularly Alina who now had to face comment about alleged "reputation", esp. based on the program she is no longer skating.
 

Bluediamonds09

Medalist
Joined
Sep 8, 2016
Wow! Gulyakova, Nugumanova, Sakhanovich, Talalaykina all in the same group! And outsiders like Gracheva, Istomina and Tsibinova as well! This will be very interesting.:popcorn:

Umm , wait, what?!?!? Guliakova and Nugumanova and Talalakina?? When is this event happening??? I can’t read Russian. Is this part of the Russian Cup thing?
 

macy

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Q: Do you now mainly cover junior sports?
A: Yes. But we - I, Skate Canada and ISU - are thinking how to develop further. We are considering different options for how to broadcast senior competitions and other important events. Of course, viewers want to watch the European Championship, the Championship of Four Continents, the World Championships. But the fact is that even ISU can’t just start broadcasting the World Championships on YouTube. There are a lot of legal and bureaucratic issues. But in the future, something new can be expected in this direction.


i am really glad to hear this. making senior competition available as they do the JGP will only help the sport, like gymnastics. i think they should follow down the same road as USA gymnastics on their youtube channel- broadcast official practices and competition live and upload full broadcasts of events, even if they are just domestic or senior B's.
 

Edwin

СделаноВХрустальном!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
i am really glad to hear this. making senior competition available as they do the JGP will only help the sport, like gymnastics. i think they should follow down the same road as USA gymnastics on their youtube channel- broadcast official practices and competition live and upload full broadcasts of events, even if they are just domestic or senior B's.

It could also be ISU wants to set up a pay-per-view channel of its own. ISU's JGP coverage should be expensive, a five person crew flying around the world with all their equipment. Junior events have no commercial value to the mainstream sports channels.

Senior events are commercially attractive and in the USA already behind pay walls.
 

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
Yes, it's the first stage of the Russian Cup and is occurring this week.

SfM - I never understood how this Russian Cup Group Stage works. Do they get points like in the GP events? And then top pointers go through to RusNats? I guess the scores are the tiebreaker?
 
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