2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 53 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
I don‘t think she‘s the only tough coach out there. It‘s just that Russian ladies are my favorites, naturally I would focus more on them and their coaches. But I agree that we will probably never agree on this, so let‘s move on.

I think Nastya should go to seniors next year. There is no space in junior competitions and even if she probably won‘t get a second GP event, there are challengers and she can get high enough scores to secure her some events the following season. And I know this season will be different as there are a lot more skaters to fill the spots, but last season Sofia only had one assignment originally too and ended up as European Champion. I don‘t think this is likely to happen for Nastya or anyone for that matter as it involves a lot of luck but it would be nice to see her have a good season regardless.

I‘m no fan of Buyanova, her way of thinking about URs and how it‘s unnecessary to correct them is just beyond me. Her students are losing so many points on this and she‘s unwilling to do anything about it. Unbelievable. But she still has the reputation and Nastya is her top student now. So, yes, they could both need a good season. Nastya‘s jump technique is peculiar somehow but she still manages to land 3Lz-3Lo, so if she does that consistently next season... well, there‘s hope. Especially since everything else about her skating is simply sublime.

Someone else I‘m hoping for to have success is Tarakanova. I feel like those two are really underrated but just so talented. I‘m a bit scared for Tarakanova, changing coaches so often, never being in an environment for a long time, always having to adjust... it‘s probably hard and interferes with the training process. I guess she will stay in juniors where it‘s not going to be easy either. So many girls, even with 3A gone. Let‘s hope she can be successful nonetheless. It’s a shame she never went to Junior Worlds. But there are just too many great girls.

I agree with you both nastyas are so talented and underrated. Nastya T may be a little unstable I don't know she moves around alot for somebody with this much talent. Same for Nastya G. Three coaches in three years is Risky Business.

Buyanova should be at the level of coach where under rotations are not the main issue.
 

nussnacker

one and only
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Mar 16, 2019
I'm so tired of this "limiting water" nonsense. Just so you know, according to basic biology, average human cannot survive more than 3 days without water, aka the person will die without water.
Now add this to a high-functioning athlete, who works out all day and sweats, how well do you think they will be able to function?

Even body builders, who cut before their competitions, can barely last a day without water, and they are on the verge of fainting after doing that do their body.
How do you think it happens in other sports? Or maybe Eteri practices dark magic and all her students get magical skills of surviving without water AND food AND performing amazingly on top of that?

Yes, they track their weight, yet you cannot say it somehow stomps their growth, obviously the target weight they should hold onto changes all the time,
because as we witnessed with our bare eyes, all her girls gain weight and get more womanly, i.e. they don't hold the same weight as when they were 14.
Unfortunately, Eteri's dark magic only goes as far as helping her girls survive without water and food, but doesn't stop them from gaining weight and growing into women. :scratch2:

I just find these ridiculous speculations about starving (the word used by many here) to be a bit out of touch with reality.

Chill, people. They eat and they drink or they would've died looong time ago.

+ I highly doubt that Eteri makes their personal meal plans consisting of air, something makes me think these kids just might have parents who feed them at home, but it's not certain:scratch2:
I don't know, maybe because they live with their families, and not with their coaches, their parents are able to check what their kids eat?
If they actually starved, russian parents are normal parents like everywhere else (i guess it is a surprise for many), they would've stopped it a long time ago.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
I think, at least for me, age plays a huuuuge role in how I perceive statements about things like weight and health and such. I think one of the main reasons why so many people, including me, are so concerned especially about Eteris students is that they're so so incredibly young(I think the average is about 15 years old?) And IMO when your skaters are so young, you also have a role of actually helping them and teaching them how to be healthy without restricting yourself too much(this I mean what Zhenya talked about how she sometimes only had one small chocolate bar because she was scared of gaining) and eating a balanced, cut out for elite sport diet without being scared of food. And in my opinion Eteri does not do that.

That's why I also think that people are critiquing Eteri for what happened with Yulia, and in the case of, for example Gabby, which is older than what Yulia was, less on Brian, if you know what I mean.
Well explained I appreciate that.

But much of this is just the pressure of the sport to stay thin. Adelina sotnikova he's only done shows the last 3 or 4 years says she only eats one real meal a day due fears of weight gain. Amazing and absolutely incredible. But she can do it and it works for her. Although it's obviously not for everyone.
 

andromache

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Chill, people. They eat and they drink or they would've died looong time ago.

I'm sorry, but this comment is utterly ridiculous. People suffer from eating disorders, severely restrict their food, etc. and keep themselves alive. Staying alive does not equal healthy. If your only requirement for healthy is "hmm, not dead!" then you're completely ignoring the majority of physical and mental health.
 

andromache

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Well explained I appreciate that.

But much of this is just the pressure of the sport to stay thin. Adelina sotnikova he's only done shows the last 3 or 4 years says she only eats one real meal a day due fears of weight gain. Amazing and absolutely incredible. But she can do it and it works for her. Although it's obviously not for everyone.

Here's a cultural difference for you.

I do not think eating one real meal a day because you're so terrified of weight gain is amazing or incredible. I think it's very sad. In the US, that's an eating disorder.
 

Reddi

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 16, 2018
1) I can't name a top skater who never ever had to compete while injured. Not. A. Single. One. How on Earth is this "the Eteri thing"?! When we'll stop pretending that all the other coaches in this sport always prevent their pupils from competitions in such cases? Really... And about "forcing someone", she was ready to withdraw Zagi from GPF and WC this season - it was Alina who had the last word.
2) Eteri works with children, yes. That's why she always says that she expects parents to organise their kid's diet and sleeping schedule. Coaches only keep track of the weight's dynamic - water and food intake is on the athlete and his/her entire family. I clearly remember her saying things like: "Don't leave your kid alone with their diet! If she can't have something then you can't have it too."
 

neusw

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
1) I can't name a top skater who never ever had to compete while injured. Not. A. Single. One. How on Earth this is "the Eteri thing"?! When we'll stop pretending that all the other coaches in this sport always prevent their pupils from competitions in such cases? Really... And about "forcing someone", she was ready to withdraw Zagi from GPF and WC this season - it was Alina who had the last word.
2) Eteri works with children, yes. That's why she always says that she expects parents to organise their kid's diet and sleeping schedule. Coaches only keep track of the weight's dynamic - water and food intake is on the athlete and his/her entire family. I clearly remember her saying things like: "Don't leave your kid alone with their diet! If she can't have something then you can't have it too."

Not a single professional or serious amateur athlete in any sport has managed to never compete or train without injury. Guess what, great athletic achievement is by definition pushing the bounds of human ability. That means you're right on the edge of the human body's physical capacity and you will eventually get injured, either from trauma or wear and tear. It happens to literally every top athlete in every sport. And obsessive "all knowing" fans will never find out about the vast majority of injuries unless it forces a missed competition or the athlete feels like broadcasting it. Guess what, most athletes take pride in their abilities and don't like making excuses for poor performance, so aren't likely to ever tell you about their aches and pains.

But no, let's talk about how Eteri invented fire, the wheel, gravity, and every other concept that's been around since the beginning of human civilization.
 

andromache

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Have you read the whole thing, or just this phrase? You realize that you're cutting out a sentence and putting it out of context to manipulate the meaning of the message?
Because it is obviously not what I meant, I just pointed out the ridiculousness of them not drinking water even for 1 day, because it is physically impossible.
(I don't know if you have actually seen a body builder cutting before competitions. When they stop water intake, by the end of their day they are shaking and barely holding on, I've seen it many times, trust me, they are barely making it to just stand and pose there. I can't imagine a figure skater to cut water, train and perform a highly demanding routine, if adult men body builders are barely able just to simply stand and pose)

If you're implying some mental issues within her team, then I don't know which medical school helps with getting degree in identifying mental illnesses through internet, that's an amazing skill.
I don't even know why all these athletes have team doctors, who look after them, when people can identify their mental and physical issues through internet.

Not only have you ignored basic biology, you ignore that russian parents might actually care about their children and not let them starve, because (a new info for everyone), russian parents are no different than any other parents out there.

Sometimes people are willing to twist basic facts about how human beings function (i.e. assumptions about not drinking water), just so it would fit into their narrative of the implied illnesses they diagnose through their screens.

I never diagnosed anybody with anything. You’re putting words in my mouth. I merely wanted to explain that it is indeed possible to severely restrict food/water intake and still maintain the appearance of health by being alive + competing.

Gabby, Jenny Kirk, and Gracie Gold all had great performances while they simultaneously had eating disorders.
 

Alex65

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Country
Russia
In order to limit the speculation, I propose to speak not about some indefinite students of Eteri. Speak specific names whom you mean in your statements. It will have at least some meaning. And not idle chatter. Who is this unfortunate child who supposedly preserves visibility
the health?
 

nussnacker

one and only
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 16, 2019
I never diagnosed anybody with anything. You’re putting words in my mouth. I merely wanted to explain that it is indeed possible to severely restrict food/water intake and still maintain the appearance of health by being alive + competing.

Gabby, Jenny Kirk, and Gracie Gold all had great performances while they simultaneously had eating disorders.

I wasn’t putting words in your mouth, I was surprised you mentioned eating disorders and wasn’t sure what you meant, hence I wrote „IF“. I wrote „if you’re implying“
Well why did you mention eating disorders in the first place?

As I said, cutting food/water is only possible to some rational degree, saying there was no/very little water or food is a bit absurd.
At least to me, to a person who first handedly knows what people without water and carbs look like.
Yulia who tried to not drink water before her last rostelecom performance can tell anyone about the cramps that will follow, if you deprive your body from water.

You merely tried to tell me my standard for athletes well being was being alive or dead, which I don’t even know how you managed to imply from the text I wrote -_-

I merely tried to tell you from my own experience what people feel if they try to do severe diets, people assume Eteri students have. Hence, I don’t believe they deprive themselves from food and water. If they don’t have enough energy and water, their bodies would respond accordingly, there’s no doubt about that.

Eating disorder is a mental issue, people can diet and not have a mental issue, people can eat a lot and not have a mental issue.

Hence, automatically mentioning mental issues with regards to someone’s diet doesn’t seem right to me.
 

Scott512

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Here's a cultural difference for you.

I do not think eating one real meal a day because you're so terrified of weight gain is amazing or incredible. I think it's very sad. In the US, that's an eating disorder.

I'm not sure it's just a cultural thing because Gabby and Gracie have shoes problems with eating disorders and I'm pretty sure they never lived or trained in Russia.. it is what it is and limiting yourself diet wise and figure skating is very normal. It is very risky as we know from Gabby and Gracie. But it is pretty normal with quad and triple Axel Queens invading figure skating now being lighter is going to be even more important than in the past. Kaetlyn Osmond had probably the strongest body for the ladies in figure skating in recent years. She looked amazing and was very powerful for a ladies figure skater. But I just don't think you're going to see strong girls like that in figure skating anymore. You're not going to see 125 lb girls doing quads and triple Axels. They are just not built for it.
 

andromache

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
I'm not sure it's just a cultural thing because Gabby and Gracie have shoes problems with eating disorders and I'm pretty sure they never lived or trained in Russia.. it is what it is and limiting yourself diet wise and figure skating is very normal. It is very risky as we know from Gabby and Gracie. But it is pretty normal with quad and triple Axel Queens invading figure skating now being lighter is going to be even more important than in the past. Kaetlyn Osmond had probably the strongest body for the ladies in figure skating in recent years. She looked amazing and was very powerful for a ladies figure skater. But I just don't think you're going to see strong girls like that in figure skating anymore. You're not going to see 125 lb girls doing quads and triple Axels. They are just not built for it.

The cultural difference isn’t the presence of eating disorders - obviously they impact skaters from all over the world - the cultural difference is that you think it’s 100% okay for skaters to restrict themselves and have such a fear of food and weight gain. I do not think it’s ok. I hope Adelina gets treatment.

Girls and women who eat 500 calories a day and do quads aren’t “built” for it. They are forcing their bodies to do something by depriving themselves of food. If you can eat healthy and do quads, great! There are tons of naturally thin ladies in this sport. If you can only be successful by eating very little, don’t be an elite skater. I don’t want to see girls suffering in order to be successful.
 

andromache

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
I wasn’t putting words in your mouth, I was surprised you mentioned eating disorders and wasn’t sure what you meant, hence I wrote „IF“. I wrote „if you’re implying“
Well why did you mention eating disorders in the first place?

As I said, cutting food/water is only possible to some rational degree, saying there was no/very little water or food is a bit absurd.
At least to me, to a person who first handedly knows what people without water and carbs look like.
Yulia who tried to not drink water before her last rostelecom performance can tell anyone about the cramps that will follow, if you deprive your body from water.

You merely tried to tell me my standard for athletes well being was being alive or dead, which I don’t even know how you managed to imply from the text I wrote -_-

I merely tried to tell you from my own experience what people feel if they try to do severe diets, people assume Eteri students have. Hence, I don’t believe they deprive themselves from food and water, if they don’t have enough energy and water, their bodies would respond accordingly.

Eating disorder is a mental issue, people can diet and not have a mental issue, people can eat a lot and not have a mental issue.

Hence, automatically mentioning mental issues with regards to someone’s diet doesn’t seem right to me.

I don’t think you know what eating disorders are.

In addition to the mental issues that go along with eating disorders, there are also behaviors. Most notably, severely restricting your food intake, which is what I am referring to here.

Severely restricting your food intake causes long-term mental and physical problems. If you don’t believe that, fine, we are free to agree to disagree.

FYI, this is not the Eteri fan fest thread. One exists. People are free to be critical of Eteri and her methods. If the fights were not dragged on and on and on with bickering, this thread would be much more pleasant of a place to discuss the Russian ladies. As I tried to point out, people are coming from very different perspectives. No one is going to change anyone’s minds. Sometimes debate and discussion is fun and we can learn a lot from it! But this one is just exhausting. I regret posting at all.
 

nussnacker

one and only
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Mar 16, 2019
I don’t think you know what eating disorders are.

In addition to the mental issues that go along with eating disorders, there are also behaviors. Most notably, severely restricting your food intake, which is what I am referring to here.

Severely restricting your food intake causes long-term mental and physical problems. If you don’t believe that, fine, we are free to agree to disagree.

FYI, this is not the Eteri fan fest thread. One exists. People are free to be critical of Eteri and her methods. If the fights were not dragged on and on and on with bickering, this thread would be much more pleasant of a place to discuss the Russian ladies. As I tried to point out, people are coming from very different perspectives. No one is going to change anyone’s minds. Sometimes debate and discussion is fun and we can learn a lot from it! But this one is just exhausting. I regret posting at all.

I perfectly know what eating disorders are, and first and foremost they are mental issues.

Mental issues that can be associated with poor body image or anything else, and unhealthy diets are a result of mental issue, not the other way around.
Severely restricting food intake does not have to be linked to a mental issue, and assuming someone’s severly restricting their food intake without seeing what they actually eat is wrong.

FYI, I never said to anyone not to post anything critical about anyone. If people are talking about various severe illnesses and body damaging diets, then I expect them to actually know something about how bodies work, and I merely spoke about my personal experiences and knowledges about diets.
I was hoping you would learn something from it, that’s why I was mentioning all those facts, there’s no reason to get defensive about it.
 

Baron Vladimir

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Here's a cultural difference for you.

I do not think eating one real meal a day because you're so terrified of weight gain is amazing or incredible. I think it's very sad. In the US, that's an eating disorder.

That is not an eating disorder, nor in USA, nor anywhere in the world. And i don't want to quote all your posts, but they are simply not correct and not just from the point of eating disorders definition, but also from someone's personsl healthy life's definition as also athletes eating habits in other sports too. I mean, do you know how marathons runners look like and what are theirs habits? Do you know what other top athletes eating habits are, like Novak Djokovic for example? If someone has different eating habits and look thin that doesnt necesseraly makes him unhealthy and certanly not a person with mental/eating disorder. The cause of the disorder is in mental state/formation and unhealthy eating habits are product of that, its not the other way around like you are sugesting :eek:topic:
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
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Mar 3, 2014
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That is not an eating disorder, nor in USA, nor anywhere in the world. And i don't want to quote all your posts, but they are simply not correct and not just from the point of eating disorders definition, but also from someone's personsl healthy life's definition as also athletes eating habits in other sports too. I mean, do you know how marathons runners look like and what are theirs habits? Do you know what other top athletes eating habits are, like Novak Djokovic for example? If someone has different eating habits and look thin that doesnt necesseraly makes him unhealthy and certanly not a person with mental/eating disorder.


Encouraging an adolescent to eat one meal per day is encouraging an eating disorder. Period.

All the adult athletes in the world who may eat as they choose do not prove otherwise.

Adult Tennis players, marathon runners, body builders.... irrelevant.

I will be very interested in any academic or other independent studies that say that restricting food among adolescents to such a severe degree does not foster an eating disorder. If you, or anyone, has links to such refereed medicine based articles, I would be pleased to read them.
 

andromache

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
That is not an eating disorder, nor in USA, nor anywhere in the world. And i don't want to quote all your posts, but they are simply not correct and not just from the point of eating disorders definition, but also from someone's personsl healthy life's definition as also athletes eating habits in other sports too. I mean, do you know how marathons runners look like and what are theirs habits? Do you know what other top athletes eating habits are, like Novak Djokovic for example? If someone has different eating habits and look thin that doesnt necesseraly makes him unhealthy and certanly not a person with mental/eating disorder.

If you are AFRAID of weight gain and deliberately restricting your calorie intake as a result, that is an eating disorder.

I spent a lot of time talking to professionals and other people with EDs.

https://www.eatingdisorderhope.com/information/anorexia

Major Types of Anorexia
There are two common types of anorexia, which are as follows:

Binge/Purge Type – The person struggling with this type of eating disorder will often purge after eating. This alleviates the fear of gaining weight and offsets some of the guilt of having ingested forbidden, or highly restricted food. The compensatory purge behavior by the individual with Binge/Purge Type anorexia may purge by exercising excessively, vomiting or abusing laxatives.
Restrictive – The individual suffering from restrictive anorexia is often perceived as highly self-disciplined. They restrict the quantity of food, calories and often high fat or high sugar foods. They consume far fewer calories than are needed to maintain a healthy weight. This is a heartbreaking form of self-starvation.

Examples of environmental factors that would contribute to the occurrence of this eating disorder are:

The effects of the thinness culture in media, that constantly reinforce thin people as ideal stereotypes
Professions and careers that promote being thin and weight loss, such as ballet and modeling
Family and childhood traumas: childhood sexual abuse, severe trauma
Peer pressure among friends and co-workers to be thin or be sexy.

Anyway. This is way off-topic. I have confirmed my knowledge on this topic. I'm done. People are free to believe what they want if that makes them feel better about young girls on severe diets. Am I saying that Eteri's girls are all on severe diets? No. I don't know what they eat every day. But what has been revealed in interviews is troubling. People are allowed to be concerned. I don't care what grown adults are doing in other sports. This is about figure skating, and we all know that eating disorders are endemic to this sport, just as they are in gymnastics and ballet. Others have stated why Eteri specifically concerns them.

This isn't the Eteri fan fest. People can criticize and express concern. They should be able to without this thread getting derailed over and over again.
 

Baron Vladimir

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Encouraging an adolescent to eat one meal per day is encouraging an eating disorder. Period.
.

Well you can ask any clinical psychologist to verify that if you dont believe me, but its a very very wrong statement. Like i edited, eating disorder is a product of a mental state, and those kind of unhealthy eating habits are product of some mental malfunctions, not the other way around. You can only argue that eating one meal per day can be unhealthy, but again not necesseraly and not always.
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
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Mar 3, 2014
Country
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Well you can ask any clinical psychologist to verify that if you dont believe me, but its a very very wrong statement. Like i edited, eating disorder is a product of mental state, and unhealthy eating habits are product of those mental malfunctions, not the other way around. You can only argue that eating one meal per day can be unhealthy, but again not necesseraly and not always.

I like to read at my leisure, so I will wait for the article links. Encouraging an adolescent to eat one full meal a day encourages disordered eating, but if an article in an academic refereed journal says otherwise, I would certainly consider it, ETA: maybe the clinical psychologists can give you the links?

Spousal Unit is an academic and I have access to JSTOR, so no one needs to worry about country or paywalls.:)
 
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