2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

flanker said:

Because in those accusations from "abusing" and "questionable methods" there is merely stated something particular and specific for just Eteri which would not appear in any other team (or sport), while the scale of marking something as questionable is just completely subjective. When user says that competing with wounds is abusing, than I consider as perfectly correct to point out that there is literfally no top skater who would have never done that. When someone claims that he thinks that Eteri's girls are "forced" to skate (that means they have to do it against their will), that of course I feel completely free to point out that there is no such evidence that Alina or others would have been forced to do anything against their will and that such accusation is just someone's subjective conviction.

The most frequent objections are:
Food and water restrictions, watching skaters weight - absolutely common in any sport, esp. during competitions. The only specific thing is that apart from others Eteri and her skaters are pretty open about it and don't hide anything.
Skating with injuries - absolutely common. Claims about "forcing" to skate have no solid ground.
ETeri doesn't care about wounded and don't provide them support and don't give them a chance - that's just not true. Alina, Anna and even Zhenya had some more more or less serious injuries and none of them were left behind, all were provided with time for recovery.

So why not to point out that people are very selective in their accusations.

When there will be some argument based on the solid ground that Eteri surely does XY and you can't find anywhere else, then there will be time to talk about whether this particular method is admissible or not, whether I agree with that or not. But there can't be serious discussion whether particularly Eteri should be allowed to teach skaters to watch their weight when that is absolutely common and natural practise in any sport. That is not serious concern, that is nitpicking.

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So well said flanker you broke it down perfectly. and people weren't even talking about this a couple days ago but somebody posted an interview about Eteris ways and methods from her ex pupil Polina Shubadova. and then that kick-started this whole thing again the last couple days. And the reason why some people defend EG in this thread is because there are often an accuracies or just plain unfairness about eteri and her ways and methods.

flanker said:

Because in those accusations from "abusing" and "questionable methods" there is merely stated something particular and specific for just Eteri which would not appear in any other team (or sport), while the scale of marking something as questionable is just completely subjective. When user says that competing with wounds is abusing, than I consider as perfectly correct to point out that there is literfally no top skater who would have never done that. When someone claims that he thinks that Eteri's girls are "forced" to skate (that means they have to do it against their will), that of course I feel completely free to point out that there is no such evidence that Alina or others would have been forced to do anything against their will and that such accusation is just someone's subjective conviction.

The most frequent objections are:
Food and water restrictions, watching skaters weight - absolutely common in any sport, esp. during competitions. The only specific thing is that apart from others Eteri and her skaters are pretty open about it and don't hide anything.
Skating with injuries - absolutely common. Claims about "forcing" to skate have no solid ground.
ETeri doesn't care about wounded and don't provide them support and don't give them a chance - that's just not true. Alina, Anna and even Zhenya had some more more or less serious injuries and none of them were left behind, all were provided with time for recovery.

So why not to point out that people are very selective in their accusations.

When there will be some argument based on the solid ground that Eteri surely does XY and you can't find anywhere else, then there will be time to talk about whether this particular method is admissible or not, whether I agree with that or not. But there can't be serious discussion whether particularly Eteri should be allowed to teach skaters to watch their weight when that is absolutely common and natural practise in any sport. That is not serious concern, that is nitpicking.

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When we criticize Eteri it's bot a situation of "oh it only happens with her and she's the only bad coach" however, the interview was from one of her ex-students and not from another coach, so naturally people will talk about Eteris teaching. The argument "but it happens everywhere and in other sports" is weak, because to me it sounds like, you guys don't think that she doesn't do this stuff, but that it's okay because it surely happens elsewhere too.

LenaRadiFan said:

When we criticize Eteri it's bot a situation of "oh it only happens with her and she's the only bad coach" however, the interview was from one of her ex-students and not from another coach, so naturally people will talk about Eteris teaching. The argument "but it happens everywhere and in other sports" is weak, because to me it sounds like, you guys don't think that she doesn't do this stuff, but that it's okay because it surely happens elsewhere too.

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Let me be clear:
When people are criticizing Eteri about things that are completely usual and necessary, while they didn't deliver any reasonable point, only their "concerns", it is the situation as if they would have been criticizig a driver that he is sometimes going backwards. Driving backwards is as common thing as food intake restrictions and diets in sport, e.g. when you are parking. Also, inevitable sometimes, even if driving backwards is probably more difficult and dangerous (that's why there is an alarm in cargo vehicles).
And you would choose one particular driver and start to accuse him: "How do you dare to even have reverse gear in your car? Don't you know how driving backwards can be dangerous?" That's how weak all this concern is and the driver would be of course confused and would point out that "any car has reverse gear, why do you blame particularly me?"

And why all the time talking about food restriction? Eteri does not do this. In the group is carried out daily weighing and only. That is, Eteri sets the standard - the weight that a skater should have. Everything else is the work of the skater and his parents. Why do Eteri's accusers believe she must do hundreds of things? She is a trainer, not a nutritionist or a doctor.

Perhaps because this driver is constantly winning the Grand Prix F1 in last time.

Orlov said:

And why all the time talking about food restriction? Eteri does not do this. In the group is carried out daily weighing and only. That is, Eteri sets the standard - the weight that a skater should have. Everything else is the work of the skater and his parents. Why do Eteri's accusers believe she must do hundreds of things? She is a trainer, not a nutritionist or a doctor.

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Well, exactly, she is not a nutritionist, so she should not be the one to set the standard weight a skater should have. That‘s literally the problem. This whole discussion would be made redundant if Eteri did not act like she was a nutritionist. These kids should have professionals to determine their ideal weight/muscle fat ratio for their individual body type and how to achieve it. The problem isn’t skaters looking after their weight. It’s underaged skaters acting accordingly to what a coach has told them that is not a professional in this field and should not be allowed to make such decisions. Team TCC works with a nutritionist, that was literally the first thing Brian did for Zhenya. Find her a professional. So if anyone wants to repeat for the hundredth time now how Yuzuru, an adult, is watching his weight, too. Yes, obviously, he does. This happens in sport. But it’s how you do it that matters. Also, quite obviously, working with nutritionists is not a guarantee that you will never suffer from an eating disorder or develop disordered eating habits. (E.g Gabby and Gracie) But it is a step in the right direction. I’m also not saying Eteri’s skaters have eating disorders. That’s very dangerous and such a claim should not be made lightly. But what they are doing can be considered potentially harmful and that‘s why some here are raising their concerns.

The injury topic is quite a different issue anyway but since some like to bring up “but what about?!?“ about this too. Yes, Eteri‘s skaters have skated with injuries. Yes, other skaters have done that too. This is not my main problem to be frank, as it happens in sport. I think Eteri and co. have learned to be a bit more careful about this, e.g. with Alina, considering to withdraw her multiple times this season. However, in the end there are still some disturbing stories, like Tarakanova‘s where she said that Eteri told her to skate to “show character“ while injured even though it was only a national competition. Such things are wrong and should not happen. At the same time, I think Eteri has learned and is being a bit more careful.

About the “whenever other skaters do it, it’s heroic and when Eteri skaters do it, it’s all bad“. Well, I think we should not forget that these are children. People are always more concerned about children than adults. I think some things depend. When Yuzu skated with a bloody bandage around his head at that one GP event, doing jumps even though he was in risk of getting a concussion, I did not think it was heroic. Too much was at stake, it was not worth the risk. Same for Gabby at World Team Trophy this year. She should have been checked better before she was sent out on the ice. However, when Zhenya skated (under Eteri btw!) injured at the Olympics, I did. Same for Yuzuru. It depends on the competition and the state of the injury. I am sure Eteri and co. take this into consideration, too.

Also, I do not think this is the main point of this discussion.


That‘s it. It’s a lot but I think I’ve made my points clear. That’s all I‘m going to say about this.

I tried not to engage in this discussion further but this is getting ridiculous. If anyone could provide some things to talk about so that I don‘t have to read 3 pages of ”what-about-ism“ anymore, I would be glad. We will never agree anyway. The “What Eteri is doing in this case is wrong“ will always be followed by a “But it‘s happening everywhere so surely it‘s not bad“ and vice versa. There are thousands of examples, there is literally no end to this discussion. Everyone sees what they want to see.

Let‘s talk about non-Eteri skaters. What about Polina Tsurskaya?

Will she continue her career? If so, do we know her programs already? The same for Masha Sotskova. Last season didn‘t go well for her, trying to combine university and elite training seems to be hard + the attitude of her coach towards URs is not helping.

We know Stasya Konstantinova is skating to Moulin Rouge this season. Zhenya has chosen Exogenesis and Memoirs of a Geisha. Any thoughts on this?

Fluture said:

But it’s how you do it that matters.

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He can share the brand of scale he is using and a short video how he steps on it and the problem will be solved.

Polina and Masha need to change coaches ASAP. Both are such beautiful skaters with so much potential. If somebody could fix (or minimize) their URs, both would probably rocket in seasons’s bests.

LenaRadiFan said:

When we criticize Eteri it's bot a situation of "oh it only happens with her and she's the only bad coach" however, the interview was from one of her ex-students and not from another coach, so naturally people will talk about Eteris teaching. The argument "but it happens everywhere and in other sports" is weak, because to me it sounds like, you guys don't think that she doesn't do this stuff, but that it's okay because it surely happens elsewhere too.

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I dont think you understand what we are saying.
We are NOT claiming that "its ok because it happens everywhere". It is not an argument.
We are QUESTIONING you people. For example, why people do not question Orser's methods when his skaters have ED or are constantly injured? Same for other coaches.

Fluture said:

Well, exactly, she is not a nutritionist, so she should not be the one to set the standard weight a skater should have. That‘s literally the problem. This whole discussion would be made redundant if Eteri did not act like she was a nutritionist. These kids should have professionals to determine their ideal weight/muscle fat ratio for their individual body type and how to achieve it. The problem isn’t skaters looking after their weight. It’s underaged skaters acting accordingly to what a coach has told them that is not a professional in this field and should not be allowed to make such decisions.

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Question: are you part of Eteri's team? Is Eteri the one setting the standard weights, 100% sure?
Could you please link interviews of her and her skaters proving that she is the one doing a nutritionist job qith no qualified medical support?



As for Polina and Masha...
Masha kind of looks like she is done to me, unfortunately. The whole move from Buyanova looked like that (in Russia, its quite common to have a main coach at a rink, who coaches top skaters, and "lower level" coaches, who coach juniors and not top skaters). If Masha moved to a different team, then maybe, but this way it looks like she just want to skate while in uni =(
Not so sure about Polina either. She is very out of the team, with no funding and no rep. Since she bombed hard last year, i dont think she is getting many show invites either. While she is not necessarely done, it will be very hard for her to recover from that.

Fluture said:

Well, exactly, she is not a nutritionist, so she should not be the one to set the standard weight a skater should have. That‘s literally the problem. This whole discussion would be made redundant if Eteri did not act like she was a nutritionist. These kids should have professionals to determine their ideal weight/muscle fat ratio for their individual body type and how to achieve it. The problem isn’t skaters looking after their weight. It’s underaged skaters acting accordingly to what a coach has told them that is not a professional in this field and should not be allowed to make such decisions.

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Eteri is a professional in her field. There is a hard limit given by physics - you need an X kilogram of body weight to jump. She voiced this requirement. Everything else - is sophistry. These weights are not taken from nowhere. We have a federation, we have a doctors, we have a system. Why are you trying to make it look like Eteri is the queen herself, who voluntarily sets weight?
She would go beyond her competence if, after she had voiced the requirement for weight, she would tell the skater "I think you need to go on such a diet, start eating once a day, etc." This is not. At least TShK said about that here
Q: Eteri Georgievna checks what kind of food you eat?
Kostornaya: At the time of eating - no, but after - yes.
Sherbakova: We have a control moment at the weigh-in.

moriel said:

I dont think you understand what we are saying.
We are NOT claiming that "its ok because it happens everywhere". It is not an argument.
We are QUESTIONING you people. For example, why people do not question Orser's methods when his skaters have ED or are constantly injured? Same for other coaches.

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Because Orser works with Nutritionists first of all, second of all Orsers skaters are a lot of older than the average skater in Eteris group so naturally people will be more concerned for kids than for adults which can think a lot more if it's worth how to handle the whole health vs. success.

So during the off-season I try to focus on “other aspects” of Russian Ladies skating

https://www.instagram.com/p/BxNkHsBHQn3/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1nablrsydtto

LenaRadiFan said:

Because Orser works with Nutritionists first of all, second of all Orsers skaters are a lot of older than the average skater in Eteris group so naturally people will be more concerned for kids than for adults which can think a lot more if it's worth how to handle the whole health vs. success.

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Speaking horror stories about other coaches. According to Andrey Bukin TAT used to weight students before the training and for excess to beat up them until they cry. Good old times, she was like a Karolyi of figure skating.

There is a rough diet (around 1000 kcal I believe) from Nugumanova (coach Turenko, former Mishin). She said it was just a regular training day. https://www.instagram.com/liza_nugumanova_/p/BodSlkbgjM_/

Recently Butyrskaya was talking about that she takes girls to home and shows them how to lose 4kg in 5 days. Considering that teen girls weights about 40 kg it is roughly 10% of their weight in 5 days. It is like 8-10kg in 5 days for an adult and you could achieve such amazing weight cut only by massive dehydration. Restricted water consumption, almost zero carbs, zero salt and zero water intake last day. Not a fun diet. As a result, you will get half performance in strength and endurance. No one gave attention to Butyrskaya.

TripleAxelQueens3 said:

Polina and Masha need to change coaches ASAP. Both are such beautiful skaters with so much potential. If somebody could fix (or minimize) their URs, both would probably rocket in seasons’s bests.

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What is unique about both of them is that they are so unbelievably tall for ladies figure skating both in the 5'9" range.

Is Maria still interested and fully invested in figure skating? I know she's in University now so maybe her priorities aren't 100% figure skating anymore and if that's the case I can't blame her.

Who are Polina and Maria's coaches at this moment? Buyanova?

Scott512 said:

What is unique about both of them is that they are so unbelievably tall for ladies figure skating both in the 5'9" range.

Is Maria still interested and fully invested in figure skating? I know she's in University now so maybe her priorities aren't 100% figure skating anymore and if that's the case I can't blame her.

Who are Polina and Maria's coaches at this moment? Buyanova?

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Maria switched to Sokolovskaya I think just a few weeks ago

LenaRadiFan said:

Because Orser works with Nutritionists first of all, second of all Orsers skaters are a lot of older than the average skater in Eteris group so naturally people will be more concerned for kids than for adults which can think a lot more if it's worth how to handle the whole health vs. success.

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One again: Eteri encourages her pupil's parents to actively manage their kid's life. She said it god knows how many times already. Why do you act like all her skaters are orphans? She coaches kids at the rink and she's responsible for the rink accidents but it's a family business to keep their kid's nutrition, meds intake, general health, sleeping schedule, documents, etc in check.

Reddi said:

One again: Eteri encourages her pupil's parents to actively manage their kid's life. She said it god knows how many times already. Why do you act like all her skaters are orphans? She coaches kids at the rink and she's responsible for the rink accidents but it's a family business to keep their kid's nutrition, meds intake, general health, sleeping schedule, documents, etc in check.

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I'm not acting like the kids are orphans. I just think that Eteri carries some sort of responsibility for the health of her skaters like every coach does(so people don't get mad that I'm pin-pointing Eteri [emoji6]) and just pushing it away from her being like "I don't care how you eat, as long as you don't gain or lose more than 200 grams" to me is unsensible and unresponsible. Of course we don't know how she actually does it, but from a lot of interviews I would say that this is more or less the basis of the whole weight thing with her skaters. I just think it's important that you actually teach your skaters especially when they're as young as most of Eteris skaters, how important healthy eating is.

When I thought Eteri would be out of the thread for a day, she comes back again [emoji23]

LenaRadiFan said:

I'm not acting like the kids are orphans. I just think that Eteri carries some sort of responsibility for the health of her skaters like every coach does(so people don't get mad that I'm pin-pointing Eteri [emoji6]) and just pushing it away from her being like "I don't care how you eat, as long as you don't gain or lose more than 200 grams" to me is unsensible and unresponsible. Of course we don't know how she actually does it, but from a lot of interviews I would say that this is more or less the basis of the whole weight thing with her skaters. I just think it's important that you actually teach your skaters especially when they're as young as most of Eteris skaters, how important healthy eating is.

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Links to where it is clearly stated that Eteri's team has no doctors and no nutritionist to advise Eteri and skaters.