2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

readernick · Oct 20, 2019

I agree that is was a clown show but not in the favor of any particular skater. As I said in another thread, it's Hanlon's razor, "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

According the Skating Scores, the ISU just made updates to their system ( in the middle of the season.. genius, huh?) and this obviously caused problems.

It is possible that Bradie's 3F was UR. We can't see all angles (neither can the technical controllers ironically) so it is not fair to make such a judgment.

In the end with one call against her, and one call (possibly) benefiting her. The score was fair.

Orlov · Oct 20, 2019

readernick said:
It is possible that Bradie's 3F was UR. We can't see all angles (neither can the technical controllers ironically) so it is not fair to make such a judgment.

very convenient - in the case of Anya we call all her two URs, and in the case of Brady "well, we can't see all angles"

Samkrut talked about that: we (russians) clearly saw that the principle “Everything to friends, law to enemies” - was applied here. Failure in the system is a random event that does not justify that the technical panel was friendly to Brady and strict (fair) to the other two Russians. I really hope that this is an isolated case, home refereeing.

el henry · Oct 20, 2019

Orlov said:
....
whole post

Thank you for responding and for taking the time to provide the link. Unfortunately, those links are geoblocked for me

I am afraid that reviewing the skate on video may not have made much of a difference, however. Except for highly, and I mean highly, obvious URs (and of course even "highly" is at the eye of the beholder), I just go with the tech controllers and the judges. Having been in a rink, and a small one where I was close to the ice, what one sees in person can be very different from the tape.

And this is not to say I never disagree with judges. Of course I do. I can "wuzrob" with the best of them.

But even when I do, I have never (that I remember) attributed it to a conspiracy. That assumes too much time and effort of volunteer judges at an international event with international composition. I prefer to blame stupidity. :biggrin:

I think that national events, and national championships (except for, bless them, the Japanese) are far more susceptible to "home cooking".

But I congratulate Anna for coming back from fourth, she was one determined skater, and for putting out on the ice the long program she wanted to skate. As I rarely watch the junior ladies, it is the first time I have actually seen her skate

readernick · Oct 20, 2019

Baron Vladimir said:
Everybody who compete is competitive tho

Orlov said:
very convenient - in the case of Anya we call all her two URs, and in the case of Brady "well, we can't see all angles"

Samkrut talked about that: we (russians) clearly saw that the principle “Everything to friends, law to enemies” - was applied here. Failure in the system is a random event that does not justify that the technical panel was friendly to Brady and strict (fair) to the other two Russians. I really hope that this is an isolated case, home refereeing.

I don't do conspiracy theories. Anna URed her 3-3s. That was clear . The calls were fair. I didn't see an UR on Bradie 3F but because I can't see all the angles, I can't say for sure. However, just because a large group of people believe something, doesn't make it true. Alina benefited from "kind" UR calls all last year. Her 3lz3lo combo was UR even at worlds but it wasn't called. Conspiracy no, lenient panel, yes.

colormyworld240 · Oct 20, 2019

readernick said:
I don't do conspiracy theories. Anna URed her 3-3s. That was clear . The calls were fair. I didn't see an UR on Bradie 3F but because I can't see all the angles, I can't say for sure. However, just because a large group of people believe something, doesn't make it true. Alina benefited from "kind" UR calls all last year. Her 3lz3lo combo was UR even at worlds but it wasn't called. Conspiracy no, lenient panel, yes.

I think you meant "I saw an UR on Alina's 3Lo combo but because I can't see all angles, I can't say for sure". Because saying the panel didn't called an UR for Bradie because you can't see all angles, then coming around to say that Alina's UR was uncalled even though it was UR, is hypocritical. The panel was lenient for both, and they both benefitted. Or panel was correct/incorrect for both, if you're going to use the argument of not having all the angles.

readernick · Oct 20, 2019

colormyworld240 said:
I think you meant "I saw an UR on Alina's 3Lo combo but because I can't see all angles, I can't say for sure". Because saying the panel didn't called an UR for Bradie because you can't see all angles, then coming around to say that Alina's UR was uncalled even though it was UR, is hypocritical. The panel was lenient for both, and they both benefitted. Or panel was correct/incorrect for both, if you're going to use the argument of not having all the angles.

Fine, true enough. I should have written it that way, you are right. Either way, no conspiracy. Just lenient calling and the technical panel is also limited in their ability to call URs because they don't have adequate camera footage. It is not a conspiracy, it is a incompetence. ( in this case due to lack of adequate information)

ec00834 · Oct 20, 2019

readernick said:
I don't do conspiracy theories. Anna URed her 3-3s. That was clear . The calls were fair. I didn't see an UR on Bradie 3F but because I can't see all the angles, I can't say for sure. However, just because a large group of people believe something, doesn't make it true. Alina benefited from "kind" UR calls all last year. Her 3lz3lo combo was UR even at worlds but it wasn't called. Conspiracy no, lenient panel, yes.

Well, I did not see an obvious UR on Anna's 3lz-3lo. Even with the video slowed down, it was borderline 90. Bradie's UR seemed much more obvious to me. I think it's pretty clear that the panel was lenient towards Bradie but not the Russians. It's Skate America, we all knew that would happen but anyway the competition's over and we'll see next week if Bradie gets the same generous scores.

Casual · Oct 20, 2019

Orlov said:
very convenient - in the case of Anya we call all her two URs, and in the case of Brady "well, we can't see all angles"

Samkrut talked about that: we (russians) clearly saw that the principle “Everything to friends, law to enemies” - was applied here. Failure in the system is a random event that does not justify that the technical panel was friendly to Brady and strict (fair) to the other two Russians. I really hope that this is an isolated case, home refereeing.

Considering how much Russians have been over-scored for years, (thanks to "strong federation", "politics", "judges bias", or whatever), it's really bad form to complain, don't you think?

(And no, I don't like Bradie. I didn't like any of the Russian ladies either, until now - but I liked Anna. Finally, someone from Russia who actually deserved her scores and was interesting to watch. What a pleasant surprise, a hype actually measuring up to reality. :laugh:

)

ec00834 · Oct 20, 2019

Casual said:
Considering how much Russians have been over-scored for years, (thanks to "strong federation", "politics", "judges bias", or whatever), it's really bad form to complain, don't you think?

(And no, I don't like Bradie. I didn't like any of the Russian ladies either, until now - but I liked Anna. Finally, someone from Russia who actually deserved her scores and was interesting to watch. What a pleasant surprise, a hype actually measuring up to reality. )

They may have not deserved their scores but they deserved their placement, which I can't say for Bradie. If this was any other GP, Liza would not have received those random UR calls and she would've come in second.

Casual · Oct 20, 2019

Mishaminion said:
You know what, I'll just agree to disagree and let you get on with your complaining about how ugly the ladies programs supposedly are when artistry aside, the men were messy and "ugly" at SA in terms of falling, stumbling and popping their difficult jumps, which detracted from some otherwise solid performances.

Total package doesn't mean everyone should be at exactly the same standard in both categories. The aim is to demonstrate your skills in a polished, pleasing manner with a competent performance. Invoking true powerful emotion and awe as you put it is icing on the cake and not that many skaters can do that. If that's what you want out of skaters then your standards are way higher than what is expected of them.

Nobody is going to be able to change your bias, so have at it.

I didn't like men at SA. Nathan was way off from last year's, and the rest... Ouch.

However, ladies field in general (overall, last few seasons) is clearly subpar, compared to men. Not just technically, but artistically. It flies in the face of gender stereotypes, but it is what it is.

As for demanding higher standards, my time is limited and I want to be entertained, that is why I prefer watching interesting performances and artists over mediocrity. I'm no coach/student/parent, therefore I could can less about how well skaters follow rules, maximize points, which country or club they represent, etc., I just want to see something special on ice. Is that so wrong, to ask for something BETTER?

Each of us may have different ideas on what figure skating is supposed to be about, but striving for perfection is a universal human trait, isn't it?

Casual · Oct 20, 2019

ec00834 said:
They may have not deserved their scores but they deserved their placement, which I can't say for Bradie. If this was any other GP, Liza would not have received those random UR calls and she would've come in second.

Liza? LOL

If skating gods were fair, she wouldn't be on the podium at all.

readernick · Oct 20, 2019

ec00834 said:
Well, I did not see an obvious UR on Anna's 3lz-3lo. Even with the video slowed down, it was borderline 90. Bradie's UR seemed much more obvious to me. I think it's pretty clear that the panel was lenient towards Bradie but not the Russians. It's Skate America, we all knew that would happen but anyway the competition's over and we'll see next week if Bradie gets the same generous scores.

I think Anna is going to consistently get lots of UR calls on her 3lz3lo because the landing is always scratchy and when you have a scratchy hook on your jump landings they will get investigated by the panel. If they are 90 under ( as was the case here) they will get called. She is going to get a reputation for UR that jump combo ( which she does at least 50% of the time) and it will hurt her scores. So far, she has been called in 3 out of 4 attempts in international competition. She needs to clean up that landing.

Casual · Oct 21, 2019

readernick said:
I think Anna is going to consistently get lots of UR calls on her 3lz3lo because the landing is always scratchy and when you have a scratchy hook on your jump landings they will get investigated by the panel. If they are 90 under ( as was the case here) they will get called. She is going to get a reputation for UR that jump combo ( which she does at least 50% of the time) and it will hurt get scores. So far, she has been called in 3 out of 4 attempts in international competition. She' needs to clean up that landing.

She has a lot of raw talent, surely that wouldn't be a problem. Also, I don't understand, why someone who learned quads would UR triples? Bad technique? Does she need to re-learn how to do that combination differently?

readernick · Oct 21, 2019

Casual said:
She has a lot of raw talent, surely that wouldn't be a problem. Also, I don't understand, why someone who learned quads would UR triples? Bad technique? Does she need to re-learn how to do that combination differently?

Loop combinations are very tricky because of the timing involved. I don't actual think Anna is a natural jumper. She is a fast rotater (which is the key to her success) but she does not have the natural height on her jumps that Sasha, Aliona and some of the Japanese ladies do. She is, obviously, an extremely harder worker. So,I do think she can clean up her 3-3s but I am not sure it will be easy. (it isn't easy for anyone to clean up URs)

Grin · Oct 21, 2019

Liza said that she is going to work on her PCS
https://twitter.com/DKTNNS/status/1186079329538715648?s=19

Casual · Oct 21, 2019

readernick said:
Loop combinations are very tricky because of the timing involved. I don't actual think Anna is a natural jumper. She is a fast rotater (which is the key to her success) but she does not have the natural height on her jumps that Sasha, Aliona and some of the Japanese ladies do. She is, obviously, an extremely harder worker. So,I do think she can clean up her 3-3s but I am not sure it will be easy. (it isn't easy for anyone to clean up URs)

Thank you for explaining.

Orlov · Oct 21, 2019

Grin said:
Liza said that she is going to work on her PCS
https://twitter.com/DKTNNS/status/1186079329538715648?s=19

who is this dude?

skatergurl7 · Oct 21, 2019

Grin said:
Liza said that she is going to work on her PCS
https://twitter.com/DKTNNS/status/1186079329538715648?s=19

[emoji1319]good for wanting to continuously improve. But I’m afraid it’s a little too late this season [emoji853]

el henry · Oct 21, 2019

Orlov said:
who is this dude?

According to his Twitter, David Kane who reported his convo with Liza is a digital producer for NBC Olympics. His he has a blue check, so I presume he is who he says he is.

Do you need/want to know more?

Orlov · Oct 21, 2019

el henry said:
According to his Twitter, David Kane who reported his convo with Liza is a digital producer for NBC Olympics. His he has a blue check, so I presume he is who he says he is.

Do you need/want to know more?

I was mistaken (read too fast, casual) - I thought that he HELP Liza with PСS, therefore, I wondered - who is he and how he could help so quickly? But now I see - it just Liza talked with him and he say about her plans, about what she wants to focus on.

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

readernick

Orlov

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

readernick

colormyworld240

readernick

ec00834

Casual

ec00834

Casual

Casual

readernick

Casual

readernick

Grin

Casual

Orlov

skatergurl7

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.

Orlov

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