2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

nussnacker said:

I think her Memoirs are choreo'd by Misha Ge, aren't they? I might have gotten that wrong, so I am not sure.
If that's the case, Misha doesn't strike me as vastly different choreographer, to me he's like Averbukh of a lesser quality. (Sorry Misha fans, I'm just not a big fan of his work, that's not a personal attack at Misha's fans, that's just my opinion.)

But in a way, if it's Misha and Averbukh, I kind of do feel like she's going back to her old style of programs, and I think music choice is although a little different from her past content, it doesn't strike me as a major change from her previous content.
Maybe she felt like, doing something drastically different like OCS is too much of a big change, and she is still not ready for those changes yet.
I think she should enjoy her programs, and that's first and foremost. But at the same time, I feel like now is the right time to be experimenting, when there's still 2 seasons left till Olympic season.
I can't help but feel like not much has changed from the past, and maybe after drastic changes she felt like stepping away from her regular programs is impossible and now she's afraid of changes? I don't know

and in that light Orser's comments about Averbukh's choreography for Evgenia seem a little off.
Orser as far as I remember said that Evgenia never had this luxury of saying anything when it came to her programs.
And Averbukh actually said that it's not true at all and as Evgenia's choreographer of 4 years he knows firsthand that Evgenia was always given a voice in making of her own programs and her opinion was always accounted for. He also felt disrespected by Orser's words and felt like Orser was rounding up russians to be robots, while westerners are somehow more "free".
I feel like this partnership is going to be tad awkward, especially after what Orser was saying about Averbukh.
But Averbukh is known to quickly switch opinions, so who knows =)

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If I remember correctly she hasn't said yet who is her choreographer for the free skate. Could be mishap but doesn't have to be. I would find it also interesting if mabye 2 choreographer can work together? I don't know if that can work but I would find it interesting

nussnacker said:

I think her Memoirs are choreo'd by Misha Ge, aren't they? I might have gotten that wrong, so I am not sure.
If that's the case, Misha doesn't strike me as vastly different choreographer, to me he's like Averbukh of a lesser quality. (Sorry Misha fans, I'm just not a big fan of his work, that's not a personal attack at Misha's fans, that's just my opinion.)

But in a way, if it's Misha and Averbukh, I kind of do feel like she's going back to her old style of programs, and I think music choice is although a little different from her past content, it doesn't strike me as a major change from her previous content.
Maybe she felt like, doing something drastically different like OCS is too much of a big change, and she is still not ready for those changes yet.
I think she should enjoy her programs, and that's first and foremost. But at the same time, I feel like now is the right time to be experimenting, when there's still 2 seasons left till Olympic season.
I can't help but feel like not much has changed from the past, and maybe after drastic changes she felt like stepping away from her regular programs is impossible and now she's afraid of changes? I don't know

and in that light Orser's comments about Averbukh's choreography for Evgenia seem a little off.
Orser as far as I remember said that Evgenia never had this luxury of saying anything when it came to her programs.
And Averbukh actually said that it's not true at all and as Evgenia's choreographer of 4 years he knows firsthand that Evgenia was always given a voice in making of her own programs and her opinion was always accounted for. He also felt disrespected by Orser's words and felt like Orser was rounding up russians to be robots, while westerners are somehow more "free".
I feel like this partnership is going to be tad awkward, especially after what Orser was saying about Averbukh.
But Averbukh is known to quickly switch opinions, so who knows =)

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Her choreographer for the FS has not been announced yet.

nussnacker said:

I think her Memoirs are choreo'd by Misha Ge, aren't they? I might have gotten that wrong, so I am not sure.
If that's the case, Misha doesn't strike me as vastly different choreographer, to me he's like Averbukh of a lesser quality. (Sorry Misha fans, I'm just not a big fan of his work, that's not a personal attack at Misha's fans, that's just my opinion.)

But in a way, if it's Misha and Averbukh, I kind of do feel like she's going back to her old style of programs, and I think music choice is although a little different from her past content, it doesn't strike me as a major change from her previous content.
Maybe she felt like, doing something drastically different like OCS is too much of a big change, and she is still not ready for those changes yet.
I think she should enjoy her programs, and that's first and foremost. But at the same time, I feel like now is the right time to be experimenting, when there's still 2 seasons left till Olympic season.
I can't help but feel like not much has changed from the past, and maybe after drastic changes she felt like stepping away from her regular programs is impossible and now she's afraid of changes? I don't know

and in that light Orser's comments about Averbukh's choreography for Evgenia seem a little off.
Orser as far as I remember said that Evgenia never had this luxury of saying anything when it came to her programs.
And Averbukh actually said that it's not true at all and as Evgenia's choreographer of 4 years he knows firsthand that Evgenia was always given a voice in making of her own programs and her opinion was always accounted for. He also felt disrespected by Orser's words and felt like Orser was rounding up russians to be robots, while westerners are somehow more "free".
I feel like this partnership is going to be tad awkward, especially after what Orser was saying about Averbukh.
But Averbukh is known to quickly switch opinions, so who knows =)

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But I don't think she could choose before which choreographer she wants . And I think now she has that bit of freedom. I also would love to see more ex's being choreographed largely by her. I really liked experience and beautiful mess and would love to see how she can grow and learn when she is trying her hand at choreographing

Fluture said:

You know, making a change doesn‘t necessarily mean you have to cut all the people of your old life from it. That‘s a pretty simple way of looking at it.

What Evgenia wanted was more freedom in choosing her choreographer and style of her skating. She got that. And her FS will not be made by Averbukh anyway, just the SP.

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Averbukh about Orser team: I have been working on the Medvedeva programs for four years, so I’ll see what he will do as a choreographer. Zhenya was always inside the production, her opinion always influenced the programs. If Orser wants to raise the topic again, that Russians are robots, and they are so free, then I would answer him that way. You need to start your work with a respectful statement about the previous coach and all the choreographers with whom she worked. Because you have to grow and grow into the Medvedeva's programs.
Finally, Averbukh outplayed Wilson and Bezich with new SP.

And I loved Sofias burlesque free programm last season, you could see that she had fun doing that programm. And I have to say Lizas Lutz is textbook perfect. Yes I think she could work on her spins.

fabienne1996 said:

But I don't think she could choose before which choreographer she wants . And I think now she has that bit of freedom. I also would love to see more ex's being choreographed largely by her. I really liked experience and beautiful mess and would love to see how she can grow and learn when she is trying her hand at choreographing

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Even if that's the case, having that freedom now and still returning to the old choreographer she was "forced" to work with is kinda ironic, don't you think? =)

nussnacker said:

Even if that's the case, having that freedom now and still returning to the old choreographer she was "forced" to work with is kinda ironic, don't you think? =)

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No she never said she did not like working with him and I do love her programms. But she is also branching out , looking also at working with others on her other programm. Or with her ex. So she is kinda using this freedom too. The thing is I think now she doesn't get said ok we use this choreographer and its done with but can decide or/and is definitely asked to help choose which choreographer works well with what programm or vision of a programm. I don't see anything bad about her so being choreographed by him

Lunalovesskating said:

Hope she includes a 3F+3Lo this season! We already saw her practicing a 3Lz+3Lo for the Nike campaign.


About Elizaveta Tuktamysheva. Wasn't it announced that Averbukh will do her programs this season? Or did I mix something up? I am looking forward to see what Averbukh can create together with her, what stories she will create. Although maybe Mishin will mishinize the choreo again and will we see the 3A's in the FS this season? would be interesting to see

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I think we definitely will see 3as in Lizas prgrams. She did show after russian cup that she is able to do a 3A+3T I think and I also think she has enough willpower for it

nussnacker said:

Even if that's the case, having that freedom now and still returning to the old choreographer she was "forced" to work with is kinda ironic, don't you think? =)

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I think it says more about DW lol... a lot of skaters ditched him this season e.g. Rika Kihira... his work has not been the best the past few seasons tbh. Did not surpise me that one of Zhenya's programs would be by a choreographer she is familiar with and who knows how to emphasize her strength.

vesperalvioletta said:

I'm not sure that this is the spot to do it, so if not let me know, but I just need to vent about TSL a little bit. I know they can be petty and catty, but in a world deprived of skating news sources, it can be hard to ignore them.

Anyhow, this has been bothering me about their segments for a while now, but I'm so tired of them talking down about fans of the current crop of up and coming Russian ladies. I have so much respect for skaters of generations past, but I'm so tired of listening to them go on and on about how no one is like Michelle or Kristi or Tonya these days as if their skating is the only skating that is valid. They are all incredibly talented women, but we're in a new generation now that is pushing towards different goals. Its awfully elitist of them to talk down about "all the young fans on skating forums who are gushing about Kostornaya's new free skate music (which they bashed ad nauseam)" [emoji849]

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=)
I found this comment on the blog about figure skating, I find it very accurately expresses my opinion of TSL's knowledge/commentary about figure skating:

I don’t go to TSL for figure skating technical commentary for the same reason I wouldn’t watch TMZ for an in-depth, nuanced study of the inner workings of the entertainment industry. Anytime I want to talk about skating, there are plenty of people and places in this fandom I could go to where I can do so without having to suffer incessant chatters about infuriatingly irrelevant things steeped in an abundance of infuriatingly snarky, know-it-all, and disrespectful attitude.

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The power of positivity is powerful !

I think Sofia is not only beautiful skater she has one of the most beautiful singing voices I've ever heard.

Scott512 said:

The power of positivity is powerful !

I think Sofia is not only beautiful skater she has one of the most beautiful singing voices I've ever heard.

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Agreed, I really liked her singing. I wish her opportunity to use both of her skills after some succesful competition during closing gala

I'm missing something....

When and where did you guys hear Sofia singing?
Is there a link to a video that I missed?

Also which Sofia is it - Samadurova or Akatieva?

Thanks.

I loved DW's work with Yuna back in the day, but I don't think his choreography really works unless its a very specific model of skater. And tbh I don't think Evgenia really falls under that category of skaters that DW works best with.

Glad Zhenya is going back to Averbukh; for all of people's criticisms of her programs with him, like her miming and the 911 program, her programs with him were always pretty special in their own way. I think working with him should bring back out the strengths she's most known for. Her ability to tell stories and bring programs to life is one of her biggest strengths, and although she made this year's programs work for her somewhat this year, the programs she did with DW weren't really doing any work FOR her and she did a lot of hard carrying with the performance. I didn't think this year really lived up to the quality of interpretation I expected from her, and that we all know she's more than capable of. And I think Evgenia herself is best aware of what her strengths are and would want to play to that in the coming season. She did gain a lot this season, but I think many would say her past programs with her old team were definitely a lot stronger than what she got to work with this year. She did spend years of extreme success under that team, even if they parted on bad terms – and for good reason. Its good that she takes away the best parts of that experience that made her such a champion in the past and brings that forward with her. Going back to an old choreographer...if it benefits her then why not? I say do it.

Exogenesis isn't really my favorite piece of music for her, especially since her FP music I feel is also pretty mellow? Would have liked a faster SP or maybe something with a bigger beat, but I think if Averbukh is doing the choreo for her we'll get two distinct programs that will stand out in their own way and I'm really looking forward to experiencing a great program from her in the season ahead.

lesnar001 said:

I'm missing something....

When and where did you guys hear Sofia singing?
Is there a link to a video that I missed?

Also which Sofia is it - Samadurova or Akatieva?

Thanks.

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Sofia Samodurova, she has some videos on her instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BxrUs6GiSGu/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BxHbz6OHn4v/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bt-hnAMAgRF/

I also saw video of her her singing at some ice exibition, but can't find it now.

lesnar001 said:

I'm missing something....

When and where did you guys hear Sofia singing?
Is there a link to a video that I missed?

Also which Sofia is it - Samadurova or Akatieva?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Sofia Samadurova

Nilf said:

Averbukh about Orser team: I have been working on the Medvedeva programs for four years, so I’ll see what he will do as a choreographer. Zhenya was always inside the production, her opinion always influenced the programs. If Orser wants to raise the topic again, that Russians are robots, and they are so free, then I would answer him that way. You need to start your work with a respectful statement about the previous coach and all the choreographers with whom she worked. Because you have to grow and grow into the Medvedeva's programs.
Finally, Averbukh outplayed Wilson and Bezich with new SP.

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That‘s not at all what I meant lol. Obviously Averbukh didn’t just force a program on Zhenya when they worked together.

But Eteri has been very open about the fact that she just doesn‘t get why someone should be allowed to branch out and try different styles or different choreographers just because they want to/have won medals. Her team and her do the choreography for the skaters, they might listen to wishes sometimes but they will always decide whether it really fits them in the end.

You can argue that it produces the best results but as a skater and person grows older they might want to experiment just for the sake of it. That’s completely normal, these girls mature, they want to make their own choices, have a bit more freedom and be like an adult. That‘s what Zhenya wanted and that‘s what she got, for better or for worse. One could say that letting skaters choose does not always produce the best results - like Lena‘s Titanic or Zhenya‘s Tango program weren‘t particularly great. But that’s not what it’s about in the end. They grow older, they want changes and most of all they want to individually decide or at least take an active role in the decision.

I don‘t think it‘s about “outplaying“ anyone. Zhenya just chose what was best for her. The OCS program did not work out because she wasn‘t ready yet. But her team accepted it and Sandra and Wilson have been really gracious about it.

I‘m not a particular fan of Wilson, I think lately he‘s been lacking something in his programs. They are just not as inspired as they used to be. The tango pretty much only worked when Zhenya was on fire because her intensity helped sell the program. It was just not a great program, it lacked transitions, there wasn‘t really a lot of tango, the music cuts were bad too. Pretty much the only highlight was the step sequence that I really liked. But overall, it was Zhenya‘s interpretation and artistry that sold it, nothing else. Which speaks for her ability to make even weak programs look good by being so determined and passionate. She didn‘t have a lot to work with, though, and I think she can do a lot better with a different choreographer.

That‘s why I totally get why Zhenya would change choreographer and I hope she collaborates with someone new. Misha is good but I don‘t think Memoirs of a Geisha fits his style.

Also, I don‘t see how Memoirs and Exogenesis are like Zhenya‘s old programs? In my opinion they are totally different.

I mean, Zhenya does have her distinct style - and that‘s using music that allows her to portray a character and tell a story. I don‘t see why she should be obliged to change that. Every skater sort of has their unique style. But one can experiment within that, use different types of programs that are something she can grow into and enjoy doing but also not entirely within her comfort zone but a step out of it. And I think she does exactly that. In my opinion, Memoirs of a Geisha requires a maturity she would not have been able to portray only two years ago. And Exogenesis has lyrics, which I think she’s also never done. (Other than OCS but that didn‘t work out) So, it might not be a total, drastic change but something that helps her grow but also feel confident at the same time. One has to remember that these skaters have to compete using these programs. So they should choose something they like. One step at a time.

nussnacker said:

Even if that's the case, having that freedom now and still returning to the old choreographer she was "forced" to work with is kinda ironic, don't you think? =)

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Leaving Eteri doesn't mean she had to leave Ilia too. I don't think she wants to abandon all Russian ties to her skating. Maybe she realized that, all new is sometimes not all better. She and Ilia have made some great programs together and with the competition being very tough this season, why not go back to something that is tried and trusted. I still think this Muse music is different for her compared to Tosca and Nocturne. Brian said, he made some mistakes in his strategy with Zhenya, changing too much...at least he realizes that.

flanker said:

Sofia Samodurova, she has some videos on her instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BxrUs6GiSGu/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BxHbz6OHn4v/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bt-hnAMAgRF/

I also saw video of her her singing at some ice exibition, but can't find it now.

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It was a solemn anniversary of Mishin, if I am not mistaken.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L0IGMcV86U

Fluture said:

But Eteri has been very open about the fact that she just doesn‘t get why someone should be allowed to branch out and try different styles or different choreographers just because they want to/have won medals. Her team and her do the choreography for the skaters, they might listen to wishes sometimes but they will always decide whether it really fits them in the end.

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As a native russian speaker, I understood that message differently. It's not that she is opposed to her skaters expressing their opinion and participating in makings of the program. What she meant by that, is that sometimes, after obtaining some titles, some skaters can become cocky and demand some special treatment, and she disagrees with that.

As for Elizabet's comments, in her interview she says that skaters in her group are more than encouraged to participate in creation of their programs. She also said, that Eteri is brutally honest about everything, and she always speaks her mind about all details in the program, even down to make up. Albeit, doesn't mean skaters aren't allowed to do their own thing, they just trust their coach and her opinion.

Fluture said:

I mean, Zhenya does have her distinct style - and that‘s using music that allows her to portray a character and tell a story. I don‘t see why she should be obliged to change that. Every skater sort of has their unique style.

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melgirl25 said:

Leaving Eteri doesn't mean she had to leave Ilia too. I don't think she wants to abandon all Russian ties to her skating. Maybe she realized that, all new is sometimes not all better. She and Ilia have made some great programs together and with the competition being very tough this season, why not go back to something that is tried and trusted. I still think this Muse music is different for her compared to Tosca and Nocturne. Brian said, he made some mistakes in his strategy with Zhenya, changing too much...at least he realizes that.

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I think majority of comments were that it's not Evgenia's style, but Eteri style, since a lot of Eteri skaters tend to use those expressive face expressions (what people like to call "miming") and overthetop movements like Evgenia banging the imaginary wall in one of the EX and Alina's breaking glass thing in POTO.
With Averbukh's choreo, a lot were criticizing his "pointless" movements, like "running" in the beginning of Yulia's Shindler program and Evgenia's 9/11 program.

And major point was that with this coaching change we will see more of a subtle and mature skating, something probably more muted/sophisticated and less "in your face", that a lot of people found distasteful and liked to criticize. I found a lot of them saying "oh there's so much natural performer talent, it's just they make the skater express his talent, because of bad programs and choreography"
And I think similar sentiments were said about Zhenya's programs. That she has a lot of artistic potential, but is given those "hot mess" Aver's choreos.

So I just pointed out, that "changes" that were hyped up by many, including her new coaching team, seemed not to be happening in the end, if she goes back to her old style of programs.

I don't think she had to "leave" Averbukh at all, it's not about her choice, it's probably about fans hyping it up and making it look like with the coaching change a lot of new packaging will come, when now it looks like "old packaging" is coming back and we're not going to see any changes possibly.
I would say, it's not a "one step at a time", more like a step back in my opinion.

She could've gone to Shaelynn or Buttle (or maybe ever Richaud lol), she would've gotten something different to both Wilson and Averbukh, would've been honestly a lot more beneficial to her development.