2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

fabienne1996 · May 21, 2019

nussnacker said:
Well, you also don't seem to be adding "in my opinion" to every sentence, do you? You don't say you think she acts, you say "she acts", which is an assertion of the fact, oh am geee...

Just like NoviceFan here omitted that magical phrase, that "it is her subjective opinion" in her own comment:

Somehow, everyone else needs to understand that it's your subjective observation, even when you guys don't add that phrase, but that shouldn't work for flanker?
I don't think everyone needs to be adding "in my opinion" every single time he/she comments, but it's just my opinion [emoji3]
And if there's a bias, which you guys also undeniably have (for Evgenia and against Eteri in this case I guess), but there's nothing in there to report to mods, then maybe just ignore it?

Again where do you get that I am against eteri? [emoji23][emoji23] how many time must I say that I do not dislike eteri, just soem other actions but not her as as a person or trainer?can't zhenya be my favourite and I still do not hate or dislike eteri? Again yes I do not agree with some of her actions but again that doesn't mean I hate or dislike her.

nussnacker · May 21, 2019

fabienne1996 said:
Again where do you get that I am against eteri? [emoji23][emoji23] how many time must I say that I do not dislike eteri, just soem other actions but not her as as a person or trainer?

I said "i guess", which means I don't know for sure :agree:
The point wasn't about that at all

I also think you can make a similar case for flanker, like you do for yourself =) Maybe he doesn't dislike Evgenia, just some other actions, but not her as a skater or a person?

NoviceFan · May 21, 2019

nussnacker said:
Well, you also don't seem to be adding "in my opinion" to every sentence, do you? You don't say "you think she acts", you say "she acts", which is an assertion of the fact, oh am geee...

Just like NoviceFan here omitted that magical phrase, that "it is her subjective opinion" in her own comment:

Somehow, everyone else needs to understand that it's your subjective observation, even when you guys don't add that phrase, but that shouldn't work for flanker?
I don't think everyone needs to be adding "in my opinion" every single time he/she comments, but it's just my opinion
And if there's a bias, which you guys also undeniably have (for Evgenia and against Eteri in this case I guess), but there's nothing in there to report to mods, then maybe just ignore it?

If you think my point was that you need to add "in my opinion" to everything you say in order to not assert a fact, then you are clearly missing the point. In fact, if that's your takeaway from what I said, then its pretty funny. Which tells me this exercise is futile.

flanker · May 21, 2019

fabienne1996 said:
Well for me it came across as if you only thought zhenya matured because she got a year or 2 older and completely disregarded that one thing that matures people is what they experience in that time. And even then your saying that it is natural that someone looks older when they aged 2 years is not always true either. Some people can age a few years and still not bodily change much. And I take a complete different example her now Jennifer Aniston for example or Reese Witherspoon look almost as good or the same they did like 10 years ago if we are talking about the bodies of those women. Or me for example, I came early into puberty and some people though when I was 13 that I bodily looks like my age was already 16 to 18 and my body didn't change for a few years either.

With high level of certainty I can talk about body appearance and maturity in skating. I can't talk with the same level of certainty about mature personality. I know skaters through interviews, posts on social media, sometimes through reactions, but that is too little for me to judge someone's personality and character. Of course, sometimes I make a statement about a skater I follow and know something more about, from the recent it was e. g. about Alina's golden heart. But being completely honest, that is what I think of her. I can say why I think just this, but it will be always an opinion, maybe strong, but an opinion, about which I would not try to persuade. There would be a different point from which I would really try to persuade somebody about other person's character, and that point would be to really know this person personally and having some real common experience. E. g. I am ready to persuade anybody about character of my wife and even argue about it. But when it comes to a person I know only like a famous athlete, I can just say "this is what I think about him/her but there is only a little I could use in arguing about his/her character".
This is something I consider natural, so even when I do not write something like that explixcitely (this is an allusion to skatingfan post), I think that from context it is understandable. I'm sorry but there are limits in online conversation which hides some nuances that wouldn't make a problem in face to face conversation (like non-verbal communication, tone...).

Scott512 · May 21, 2019

I trust all are enjoying posting in here today. :thumbsup:

fabienne1996 · May 21, 2019

nussnacker said:
I said "i guess", which means I don't know for sure :agree:
The point wasn't about that at all
I also think you can make a similar case for flanker, like you do for yourself =) Maybe he doesn't dislike Evgenia, just some other actions, but not her as a skater or a person?

But what is there to dislike with me saying that she skates, looks and for the most part acts more mature than before? Why telling me twice that its natural to look more mature when you age 2 years? I than added that this is my opinion about zhenya.a dn then I get mostly the same comment again? That it is natural to look more mature than 2 years before ( which is not always true either see my other comment above where I even take myself as an example?) That's what I do not understand. I saw her being mature when's she was doing the tango freestyle for example for me she looked more mature then for example doing her Olympic performance. She just seemed to carry herself different in my eyes than before . Because I already explained that the things you experience lets you and also her mature too. And not only the fact that you get a year or 2 older.

Fluture · May 21, 2019

flanker said:
As for the skating, comparing jumps SBS from olympics and worlds say the difference is only in entries, which are more simple now.
As for the mature look, nothing surprisind that 19 y. o. already adult woman express herself in more adult way than she did as an 17 y. o. teenager. She was also different at 2016 worlds and 2017 worlds. Also growing up and looking mature is completely natural.
I've seen very similar argument with Anastasia Tarakanova, how mature she looks under Plushenko (before the "burn Pushenko" movement started ), to which I've said the same, girl of 13 and of 14 is natural difference. That is not a merit of a coach.

Actually, the part about the jumps is, objectively, not correct.

Zhenya at Olympics used full-blade take-off. Zhenya now uses toe-pick. That‘s a fact and that‘s a difference and I think everyone who watches her skate and knows a thing or two about technique sees that. There‘s that.

I also think her lutz looks better in the way that it’s less muscled, even though the edge is still problematic. Her 2A can still be considered a problem jump in competition, but mainly because she sometimes goes back to her old technique during stressful situations (like the last 2A in the Worlds FS) and that messes up her take-off and axis. But if we look at the jump when she executes it well, there is a clear difference in technique. I‘m not going to use examples from practice (because those “don‘t count“), but I think the Axel in the SP at Worlds was a good indicator of that.

You‘re certainly right that her entries this season were easier and there were less transitions. Personally, I think that was mainly due to her reworking her technique. She tried to change the muscle memory she‘s had for years, so it‘s probably only natural that she wouldn‘t go for the hardest entries immediately.

Overall, looking at her skating as a whole, I think there‘s a difference as well, especially in her cross-overs. They‘re still not as good as they can be but they look easier and faster. There‘s still a lot of work to be done, on every aspect of her skating, but I think now we can clearly see the direction they‘re heading, as opposed to, say, the very beginning of this season.

___

”before the "burn Pushenko" movement started

)”

You know, trying to say it as respectfully as possible, I do find such comments to be rather unnecessary. It‘s not either or. One can think Nastya looked way more mature and refined under Plushenko while STILL feeling that his actions after their split were wrong. I think failing to grasp this concept is exactly one of the reasons why there‘s so much bickering in here.

As for Zhenya, some users have already expressed their opinions so I‘ll try to cut it short. Different experiences in life, having to face hardships, making important decisions and sticking to them changes the way you think and the way you look at life. That‘s not only something that naturally comes with age, it comes with experiences as well. Zhenya made an important transition. Not necessarily in changing coaches only but rather making up her mind, doing what she felt was best for her and sticking to it, not giving up even when she was faced with more trouble than she‘d bargained for. I think she‘s mentally more mature in the way how she leads and lives her life and how she looks at herself and her surroundings more realistically. For me, that‘s not only about 18 > 19 years, it‘s about the choices she made and the way she handled them.

And it‘s not about merit of a coach either. I think that‘s the real main problem here, isn‘t it? Acknowledging that maybe Brian and his team, in fact, helped her in some aspects of her life and that she learned a lot from them. Zhenya‘s career has been great so far. Eteri and her team taught and helped her achieve a lot. Now, she‘s continuing her way with Brian and his team, and she‘s already learned important lessons from them and will continue to do so in the future.

(and I did not cut it short. :laugh:

)

fabienne1996 · May 21, 2019

Fluture said:
Actually, the part about the jumps is, objectively, not correct.

Zhenya at Olympics used full-blade take-off. Zhenya now uses toe-pick. That‘s a fact and that‘s a difference and I think everyone who watches her skate and knows a thing or two about technique sees that. There‘s that.

I also think her lutz looks better in the way that it’s less muscled, even though the edge is still problematic. Her 2A can still be considered a problem jump in competition, but mainly because she sometimes goes back to her old technique during stressful situations (like the last 2A in the Worlds FS) and that messes up her take-off and axis. But if we look at the jump when she executes it well, there is a clear difference in technique. I‘m not going to use examples from practice (because those “don‘t count“), but I think the Axel in the SP at Worlds was a good indicator of that.

You‘re certainly right that her entries this season were easier and there were less transitions. Personally, I think that was mainly due to her reworking her technique. She tried to change the muscle memory she‘s had for years, so it‘s probably only natural that she wouldn‘t go for the hardest entries immediately.

Overall, looking at her skating as a whole, I think there‘s a difference as well, especially in her cross-overs. They‘re still not as good as they can be but they look easier and faster. There‘s still a lot of work to be done, on every aspect of her skating, but I think now we can clearly see the direction they‘re heading, as opposed to, say, the very beginning of this season.

___

”before the "burn Pushenko" movement started )”

You know, trying to say it as respectfully as possible, I do find such comments to be rather unnecessary. It‘s not either or. One can think Nastya looked way more mature and refined under Plushenko while STILL feeling that his actions after their split were wrong. I think failing to grasp this concept is exactly one of the reasons why there‘s so much bickering in here.

As for Zhenya, some users have already expressed their opinions so I‘ll try to cut it short. Different experiences in life, having to face hardships, making important decisions and sticking to them changes the way you think and the way you look at life. That‘s not only something that naturally comes with age, it comes with experiences as well. Zhenya made an important transition. Not necessarily in changing coaches only but rather making up her mind, doing what she felt was best for her and sticking to it, not giving up even when she was faced with more trouble than she‘d bargained for. I think she‘s mentally more mature in the way how she leads and lives her life and how she looks at herself and her surroundings more realistically. For me, that‘s not only about 18 > 19 years, it‘s about the choices she made and the way she handled them.

And it‘s not about merit of a coach either. I think that‘s the real main problem here, isn‘t it? Acknowledging that maybe Brian and his team, in fact, helped her in some aspects of her life and that she learned a lot from them. Zhenya‘s career has been great so far. Eteri and her team taught and helped her achieve a lot. Now, she‘s continuing her way with Brian and his team, and she‘s already learned important lessons from them and will continue to do so in the future.

(and I did not cut it short. [emoji23])

[emoji8][emoji16][emoji6]

j00mla · May 21, 2019

Meanwhile, Maria Talalaikina took off her braces and turned out to be even more beautiful than her fans thought https://www.instagram.com/p/Bxuiy_VohbM/

flanker · May 21, 2019

Scott512 said:
I trust all are enjoying posting in here today. :thumbsup:

To be honest not very much, I was planning to watch ice hockey world championship, Battle of Poltava :biggrin:

laybackrelaxspinfast · May 21, 2019

I think as a fan of certain skaters it pays to be really objective, and because a lot of Evgenia fans are we can see the little changes that have made a big impact this season and the upward trend in improvement they indicate.
I also agree about her maturing, ageing and maturing are very separate things and I think this season she has become a very self aware individual and a very mature skater as a result of this. I mean you have to be self aware to completely up root your whole life and rewrite your own story like that.

Note: I will not be engaging in any arguments in here and suggest others choose to avoid them too. Peaceful and positive, don’t @ me with negativity because I won’t read it and you’re wasting time doing it. :laugh:

Mathman · May 21, 2019

Trusova is the greatest!

"That's just your opinion."

Of course it's my opinion -- I wouldn't say it if it weren't!

flanker · May 21, 2019

Fluture said:
Actually, the part about the jumps is, objectively, not correct.

Withoud sounding like a handbook, I will rather post this:
https://twitter.com/whiteligat/stat...o/iframe/twitter.min.html#1111362244204552193

Nothing more needs to be said.

fabienne1996 · May 21, 2019

flanker said:
Withoud sounding like a handbook, I will rather post this:
https://twitter.com/whiteligat/stat...o/iframe/twitter.min.html#1111362244204552193

Nothing more needs to be said.

For example 2a got better this past season. The thing is every skater has what is called a muscle memory and it is hard to rewrite that muscle memory.

Fluture · May 21, 2019

flanker said:
Withoud sounding like a handbook, I will rather post this:
https://twitter.com/whiteligat/stat...o/iframe/twitter.min.html#1111362244204552193

Nothing more needs to be said.

Yes, thank you very much. Those are perfect examples on how her axel has become way bigger and her toe-pick usage as well as the straightness of the arm during the tano have improved. It also shows how she pushes up into the 3T a lot quicker after the 3F, despite the one in the SP at Worlds being not particularly great and having a rough landing on the first part of the combo.

So, thank you again for illustrating my point without “sounding like a textbook“, showing that there are some areas she has improved on and some that need a lot of work to be done, mainly getting that new technique consistent (muscle memory) and as a result, jumping higher and more powerful and confident. :agree:

anna gabriela · May 21, 2019

j00mla said:
Meanwhile, Maria Talalaikina took off her braces and turned out to be even more beautiful than her fans thought https://www.instagram.com/p/Bxuiy_VohbM/

She looks lovely!! I don’t know why but I see so many other skaters in her face, she looks to me like a mix of Usacheva, Valieva, Sotskova and Konstantinova.

Happy Skates · May 21, 2019

In other news, Sabina Zagitova commenter under one of her recent Instagram posts that she will try moving to Eteri in a year. Will Sabina, Zhilina, and Akatieva be our new power trio turning junior in 2021/2022?

bubblecherry · May 21, 2019

flanker said:
Withoud sounding like a handbook, I will rather post this:
https://twitter.com/whiteligat/stat...o/iframe/twitter.min.html#1111362244204552193

Nothing more needs to be said.

This perfectly illustrates how different her jumps are now. Shall we go through them?

3F-3T: She uses the exact same entry and exit then and now. At the Olympics, there was very obvious prerotation and full blade assist. At Worlds, it looks like there may still be a bit of prerotation, but it looks much better. The landing of the 3F was better at the Olympics, and the height of the 3T was better, too. She picks much sooner at Worlds for the 3T than she does at the Olys. I'd say there is better technique now, but the outcome of the jump does not look better here.

2A: With these gifs, I cannot tell if this is the same entry or slightly different and I don't feel like going and watching right now. The exit is slightly different though. The one at the Olys looks fine, but it's a much different jump. At Worlds, she goes into the 2A with a really deep edge and is clearly using her legs and arms (lack of tano!) more. It looks more powerful, though, this has still been hit or miss for her in competition this season. The exit at Worlds is reallt beautiful. Her running edge out of it, the aesthetically pleasing arm variations out of it, staying on one foot for longer.

3Lo: Once again, entry is the same and exit is similar too. There's really no difference in her 3Lo, both in the SP & FP she uses entries and exits that she's used for many seasons now. I really like both versions of it, I like how at the Olys she went from entry-3Loop-exit into choreo. And I like how at Worlds she went from entry-3Loop-longer running edge.

I could keep going, but I think I've demonstrated how different her jumps are now. Not all of them are up to par, but it's clear that she's working torwards making them more technically sound, and it's not all worked out yet, but the attempts are being made

melgirl25 · May 21, 2019

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bv2Ok0bH3di/?utm_source=ig_embed

Here is a side by side of her loops. I see less upper body being used at the beginning. Zhenya used a lot of upper body when she jumps and it became less reliable. She still does but not as much. It is not as obvious as someone like Liza T who uses all legs, very little upper body involvement.

leilaraj · May 21, 2019

Happy Skates said:
In other news, Sabina Zagitova commenter under one of her recent Instagram posts that she will try moving to Eteri in a year. Will Sabina, Zhilina, and Akatieva be our new power trio turning junior in 2021/2022?

Omg that would be so awesome to see both of them train together and have more sister time living together

2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

fabienne1996

nussnacker

one and only

NoviceFan

Triple Something-Triple Looping

flanker

Scott512

fabienne1996

Fluture

fabienne1996

j00mla

Made in USSR

flanker

laybackrelaxspinfast

Mathman

flanker

fabienne1996

Fluture

anna gabriela

Happy Skates

bubblecherry

melgirl25

leilaraj

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