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Lol, no shade, but Japan would never host World Team Trophy if singles weren't worth double the value of pairs/dance.
2019 World Team Trophy: Thoughts and Highlights
- Thread starter gsk8
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Lol, no shade, but Japan would never host World Team Trophy if singles weren't worth double the value of pairs/dance.
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I'm ok with either format, WTT or Olympics.
For WTT, there isnt much difference in prize money between 1st & 6th. $200k for 1st vs $130k for 6th
If ISU really want the various teams to get competition experience, they will have to organise a team event with Olympics format.
It's still only 2 teams which can contend for the title - USA & Russia. Canada is rebuilding after all the retirements.
http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1819/wtt2019/index.htm
Even with the Olympics format, adding up the scores of the best Men & Ladies singles+ pairs+ dance, France still would not have beaten Japan.
Russia of course would have been 2nd, not 3rd.
The singles need to place top 5 or 6 with pairs & dance winning their event. The France men & ladies placed too low
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Or alternatively the pairs and dance could be worth double points, since there's probably more single skaters who can skate for a country and it'd be a shame to leave them out (how could you pick who to send between Liza and Sofia, or Nathan and Vincent?)
Of course...with conditions been what they are that'd make it very hard for Japan to win...or possibly even medal.
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Where was the improvement...
What I saw was the same kind of stiffness, underwhelming musicality, lack of deep edges for the most part, lack of stretch, not enough expression, and no particularly interesting movements. It was a clean and energetic performance, perhaps even her best, but not something I'd want to watch again. Her PCS were a huge a joke IMO. Well, all of the PCS tend to be a joke, but this program scoring 9's is like calling someone a genius just because they passed Algebra 1.
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It's an accurate simile for what I feel is being done with the judging. It's not mocking her. What she is showing in her program is quite shallow; there's so much more that can be done in skating. So, again, it's like doing a good job on an Algebra 1 test. Yes congrats, but that's only the beginning of what math is, and you don't deserve to be considered 9/10'ths as good as Einstein just because you got an A- in Algebra 1.
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What’s worse it is that coming last in pairs/dance brings the team 7 points, because ‘technically’ they came in the sixth. It’s almost as funny as saying one just narrowly missed the lead in the competition of two.
Money, fun and sponsorship notwithstanding, open bias does spoil things a little in that respect making it less of a competition, and more of a celebration of the single skaters with pair and ice being invited to watch and cheer.
I think the argument that ‘some countries won’t have two pairs’ is odd, because well, bring the juniors out, at least they will have someone of their size to compete against... not to mention that ‘some’ here stands specifically for Japan...
If it is a competition, it should be a competition, if it is an ice show with scores, well, it is an ice show with scores.
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I think it kind of is double the points in that points for pairs ice and dance start at 7 instead of 1. If a country has two pairs team and one gets 7th and one gets last in a field of 12, that would add up to 7 points (6+1). If you only have one team and that team gets 6th in a field of 6, you still get 7 points.
In that sense the scoring favors a country that has one good pairs team but not two. IMHO that is a good compromise, considering how few countries can field two good pairs teams.
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That, however, has no effect on the outcome of the contest. It's just that all the teams start with a score of 14 before anyone skates, instead of starting at zero.
If they decided to start the team scoring at 1000, it would be the same. Someone would win with 1110 team points and asomeone esle would be second with 1104.
This would set the all time record. Then next year they could start counting at 2000.
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I think that the reason the analogy seems harsh is this. There are a billion people in the word who can pass an algebra test, only a handful of Einsteins. If there are 1 million figure skaters in the world, Bradie is in the top thousandth of a percent, even if a few others are better.
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My thoughts on this event:
another joke presented by ISU.
another joke presented by ISU.
But there are very few people who'll take the time to google up math courses and say "Bradie skated like she lasted the full two semesters on Math 55 and scraped by with a C-, but they scored her like Einstein". Let's not analyze snark from someone. They didn't make it personal, and were merely speaking about her skating and judging, and criticism is much needed in this sport in its current state. Counter-snark in defense would be fun to read though
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When I said some countries dont have 2 pairs or 2 dance pairs, I was not thinking of Japan at all. Nor China.
I was thinking of other lesser feds where a 2nd pair do not exist, at all. Like Israel, Korea who participated in 2018 OG.
They might not even have a 1st pair high enough in the rankings to qualify.
If the competition was open to more countries to participate,not just top 6 qualified. Spain has never qualified for WTT or Olympics team event.
So far, the 7 teams at WTT has been : US, Russia, Canada, Japan,China, France, Italy
Olympics included : England, Ukraine,Germany, Israel, Korea
The juniors are not supposed to compete at senior events till they're age eligible. I dont think WTT can get ISU certification if the juniors are brought in.
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That, however, has no effect on the outcome of the contest. It's just that all the teams start with a score of 14 before anyone skates, instead of starting at zero.
If they decided to start the team scoring at 1000, it would be the same. Someone would win with 1110 team points and asomeone esle would be second with 1104.
This would set the all time record. Then next year they could start counting at 2000.
Mmgh, nope, if the single skater comes in last, it is 1 point. If the pair comes in last it is 7 points. Either coming in first is 12 points, and the pairs’ points are not multiplied per 2, one for each participant. The only way to equalize it is to get the average of the two single skaters with six positions.
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I thought Japanese pair was junior this year? I am sure it is possible to forefit one entry from one discipline as well at 1 point. Or, yeah, average two single skaters and average 6 point system.
I mean, most countries don’t have enough single skaters either...
Also, I sort of feel it is a touch unfair to Japanese to imply that they prefer things rigged in their favor over an honest challenge... and what happens when their great skating warehouses produce a pair of a special magnificence? Is not it really weird to imply that it just can never happen?
Team competition means school, investment accross the board in a balanced performance in the sport. And the scoring system does not reflect balanced approach to the investment in the sport. We all have individual preferences, but the team format cannot marginalise half the team. It’s just unfair.
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Actually, I agree.
He who pays the piper calls the tune.
I don't think anyone views this as a serious competition, it's more of a fun year-ending celebration. And, after what the Japanese fan base has done for skating, they deserve a little fun at the end of the year.
It's a nice way to say "thank you" to very loyal and supportive fans, it's low stress for the skaters, and it's a good paycheck.
It's not my favorite competition of the year, to say the least, but people should just relax and accept it for what it is.
they competed in juniors but they're senior eligible. in fact they're moving up next year since he's aging out i think
and they've competed in senior competitions before as well, they competed at golden spin and 4CC last season
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What I am trying to say is, the pairs team that "comes in last" is the imaginary second team from the weakest country in pairs. All the other imaginary pairs get 7 free points, too, so that's a wash and has nothing to do with the outcome.
I guess one can quibble about who is most disadvantaged by "adding 7" rather than "multiplyng by 2." Yes, multiplying by 2 would be better for the strongest teams, worse for the weaker. I, for one, am not outraged either way.
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O
But you are not judging two halves separately, you are lumping all the points together. Having a single skater come last is a disaster, havinga pair come last is equivalent to a single skater being the middle of the pack.
What I am trying to say is, the pairs team that "comes in last" is the imaginary second team from the weakest country in pairs. All the other imaginary pairs get 7 free points, too, so that's a wash and has nothing to do with the outcome.
I guess one can quibble about who is most disadvantaged by "adding 7" rather than "multiplyng by 2." Yes, multiplying by 2 would be better for the strongest teams, worse for the weaker. I, for one, am not outraged either way.
But you are not judging two halves separately, you are lumping all the points together. Having a single skater come last is a disaster, havinga pair come last is equivalent to a single skater being the middle of the pack.
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