Rika was exhausted after worlds and making shows. She was not at her best for the free and the SP was good. Both skaters have their own style.
It is nothing like that. It would be like comparing a junior performance with a senior performance, shockingly, hence my choice of a children's book vs classic literature -- two different levels of intellectual literary content, not genres. Your entire argument hinges upon a strawman, or maybe you didn't grasp and understand the underlying context altogether. Or maybe you won't take offence if I should conclude that you think showman-type programs are juniorish?
And what was the point of nitpicking examples as the sole part of my argument, and citing sales, that are hardly things that are a true measure of the quality of most art? And entirely without context of the target audiences and marketing strategies for such audiences? Or maybe Avatar is a better movie than something like Godfather? Or maybe Harry Potter also has comparable (or more!) content as compared to Pride and Prejudice, because it sold more?
What some find "profound" and "artistic," others find "pretentious" and "overwrought."
Your tastes are your own. What the reward for a creator and/or a performer should be in terms of merit is different from that.
But anyway, I'm not interested in debating artistry on this website, nor did I bring forth those words in my original post. I should have known replying to a strawman argument filled with undercooked thinking would lead to attempts at thread drift with more strawmen being crafted to win some imagined internet debate for reasons "unknown", and would detract from the sole point of my original post, which was merely say that the rules and judging need fixing. I'll end there.
What some find "profound" and "artistic," others find "pretentious" and "overwrought."
And, "artistic" doesn't necessarily equate as "better" or "more worthy of viewing."
A few years back, Weaver and Poje skated a program on addiction. It was deep and meaningful and "artistic." I disliked it very much.
This season, the Disco Brits brought the funk and the fun. I've watched that program more than any other this season. For me, it captured the essence of ice dance.
Which was the more meritorious program? I'd say that has quite a lot to do with an individual's point of view.
You are misusing the definition of what artistry is. "The funk and the fun" in a performance is exactly artistry. It's up to the viewer (judge) to decide how successful the artistry was. How effective was the choreography - did it create meaningful and pleasing shapes, and come together as a cohesive whole. How well did all of those movements go with the music? How much energy and expression and emotion was the skater giving in their performance?
Most people found W/P's 2016 LP to be underwhelming. It wasn't deep and meaningful. Maybe the intent was, but intent alone does not create excellent choreography and interpretation. Hence, it actually wasn't that artistic.
You are misusing the definition of what artistry is. "The funk and the fun" in a performance is exactly artistry. It's up to the viewer (judge) to decide how successful the artistry was. How effective was the choreography - did it create meaningful and pleasing shapes, and come together as a cohesive whole. How well did all of those movements go with the music? How much energy and expression and emotion was the skater giving in their performance?
What some find "profound" and "artistic," others find "pretentious" and "overwrought."
And, "artistic" doesn't necessarily equate as "better" or "more worthy of viewing."
A few years back, Weaver and Poje skated a program on addiction. It was deep and meaningful and "artistic." I disliked it very much.
This season, the Disco Brits brought the funk and the fun. I've watched that program more than any other this season. For me, it captured the essence of ice dance.
Which was the more meritorious program? I'd say that has quite a lot to do with an individual's point of view.
You are misusing the definition of what artistry is. "The funk and the fun" in a performance is exactly artistry. It's up to the viewer (judge) to decide how successful the artistry was. How effective was the choreography - did it create meaningful and pleasing shapes, and come together as a cohesive whole. How well did all of those movements go with the music? How much energy and expression and emotion was the skater giving in their performance?
Most people found W/P's 2016 LP to be underwhelming. It wasn't deep and meaningful. Maybe the intent was, but intent alone does not create excellent choreography and interpretation. Hence, it actually wasn't that artistic.
It wasn't one of their best pieces, but they did come at it from a place of thoughtfulness
This may be off-topic on this World Team Trophy thread, but does this iconic program have artistic merit? (Gary Beacom, I'm Your Man).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lke0nXpbtH8
It’s extremely funny to see some people criticizing skaters for lacking subtlety when they themselves probably never considered the possibility that they are the ones not subtle enough to notice subtlety.
I wasn't replying to you. I was making a general comment consistent with the flow of the conversation.
Feel free to go ahead an argue why Nathan Chen deserves an equal skating skills component to Patrick Chan though. How amusing that will be, I'm waiting.
No. Frankly I don’t find Nathan’s FS this year to have much subtlety, or much of anything really. But I was making more of a general statement here - not really about Nathan’s program. As for “coming up with anything to analyze a program” - I can analyze a program just fine. But what we were talking about before was not analyzing a program in terms of what PCS is deserved. We were discussing musicality and artistry. Having read your previous posts, I definitely would not get into your dissertation style of arguing with you about why something is artistic and subtle. I am not going to list out and point to you every single moment of arm waved, head tilted, shoulder raised, or curve drawn to the exact moment of the music and explain the emotion expressed and be like because of a, b, c and d that’s why it’s beautiful. Again, if you can’t see it you can’t see it. Just like I’m not going to dissect for you why a joke is funny if you don’t understand it.There's no "subtlety" that anyone is missing in Nathan's program (this seems to be what you're trying to allude to). You yourself couldn't even come up with anything when we analyzed the program. Just fluff talk. You should start by actually pointing out certain things that are so "subtle" if you want to have the discussion.
You can perhaps view the gala on the ISU channel here. It is visible in the US.
https://www.eurovisionsports.tv/isu/figure-skating/
This youtube channel is blocked in the US by NBC, but may work elsewhere:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl7FD-bB2o6nkxlTC8s3dnA