Favorite Exogenesis Symphony Part III Program

zanadude · Apr 14, 2019

Though I was really impressed with Vincent Zhou's first >100 short program the other day, the short format just butchers the song too much to be effective.

I suppose Ashley Wagner is the gold standard answer to this question, but I really enjoyed this no-name junior's performance. She reminds me of Marin Honda, in that her artistic ability far exceeds that of her technical ability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndq6umIw8oo

Wonder why parts I and II never get any love from skaters...

Ic3Rabbit · Apr 14, 2019

Jeremy Abbott's is the one and only.

The music should have been retired after that.

2013/2014 version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQm4Ge4uzmA

2011/2012 version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHbADOamI3s

The Kerrs FD was the first, I believe and good too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2iwZ1yoSq4

ETA: There have been skaters who have done parts 1 and 2 but I can't remember who right now.

Blades of Passion · Apr 14, 2019

Zhou's program is a mockery of what skating to this music should be. There's no emotional depth or even basic understanding at times of what kind of movement should be done to the music.

Abbott in 2012 did it best. If someone is going to take on this piece, then it better be soul-baring and raw, cathartic.

Jeanie19 · Apr 14, 2019

zanadude said:
Though I was really impressed with Vincent Zhou's first >100 short program the other day, the short format just butchers the song too much to be effective.

I suppose Ashley Wagner is the gold standard answer to this question, but I really enjoyed this no-name junior's performance. She reminds me of Marin Honda, in that her artistic ability far exceeds that of her technical ability.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndq6umIw8oo

Wonder why parts I and II never get any love from skaters...

I remember her. I love her yellow dress.

fzztsimmons · Apr 14, 2019

Ic3Rabbit said:
Jeremy Abbott's is the one and only.

The music should have been retired after that.

2013/2014 version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQm4Ge4uzmA

2011/2012 version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHbADOamI3s

The Kerrs FD was the first, I believe and good too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2iwZ1yoSq4

ETA: There have been skaters who have done parts 1 and 2 but I can't remember who right now.

Penny Coomes/Nick Buckland used Part 1 in their 17/18 free dance, featuring fantastic lifts and some great choreo. But mostly major props to Penny for skating at an Olympic level again after her injury.

Seven Sisters · Apr 14, 2019

Ic3Rabbit said:
Jeremy Abbott's is the one and only.

The music should have been retired after that.

Absolutely! I cannot agree more.

Kelly Lynn · Apr 14, 2019

I simply disagree. I really enjoyed Vincent’s skate. I see his earnest effort and heart on his sleeve.

tral · Apr 14, 2019

Zhou's "program" was merely a ploy to make him seem "mature" to the judges. Unfortunately, it worked. He looks like he's just along for the ride at times, with zero personal input to the music.

WeakAnkles · Apr 14, 2019

Jeremy Abbott. No question.

The Kerrs were always so interesting, and that program has a terrific twizzle sequence. I always just wished they were, well, cleaner skaters.

The problem I had with Coomes/Buckland was that program seemed more like a Pairs' LP without overhead lifts, jumps and throws than a FD. But yes, mad props to Penny for skating that after such a terrible injury.

invisiblespiral · Apr 14, 2019

Jeremy Abbott. :love:

Amei · Apr 14, 2019

Sergei Voronov

CanadianSkaterGuy · Apr 14, 2019

tral said:
Zhou's "program" was merely a ploy to make him seem "mature" to the judges. Unfortunately, it worked. He looks like he's just along for the ride at times, with zero personal input to the music.

Yes, his "ploy" to develop his overall skating and try to interpret a more mature piece of music was so underhanded of him! Maybe next season he will plot to improve his techniques further and plot to develop his artistry even further, and this "unfortunately" might also work.

Don't you just hate it when skaters use the ploy of making good program decisions and putting in the effort to achieve better outcomes, and it works?! :laugh:

Mathman · Apr 14, 2019

tral said:
Zhou's "program" was merely a ploy to make him seem "mature" to the judges..

You say that like it's a bad thing.

purplecat · Apr 14, 2019

I like the music and have pretty much liked all the exogenesis programs even though it has become a bit overused. But I agree that Jeremy Abbott's is my favorite! :love:

Blades of Passion · Apr 14, 2019

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Yes, his "ploy" to develop his overall skating and try to interpret a more mature piece of music was so underhanded of him! Maybe next season he will plot to improve his techniques further and plot to develop his artistry even further, and this "unfortunately" might also work.

Don't you just hate it when skaters use the ploy of making good program decisions and putting in the effort to achieve better outcomes, and it works?!

It didn't "work", though. There was no advancement in Zhou's artistry. The only advancement was the false inflation of PCS given to him. His "Chasing Cars" SP last year was better. Perhaps for skating skills some minor improvement can be noted, but absolutely not for the other aspects. Yeah, it's great to try and expand and improve, but you actually have to do it. Not just use music that superficially seems more mature, and then fail to bring real maturity and perspective to it.

The concept of a skater "improving" their PCS with every season is not how PCS scoring should actually work either. Unless someone shockingly does manage to have better programs every single year for their entire career, which is pretty much unheard of on any kind of long term basis. PCS should be dependent on the exact programs. Some years a person has a really great program, other years not quite as great, or even flat-out bad. PCS for performance/choreography/interpretation should be scored low for "top" skaters when applicable. And it's very common with all the trash programs we see these days.

It should also be noted that Zhou's medal at Worlds had nothing to do with PCS. His vast technical advantage simply created a huge gap from everyone else below him. He could have scored 10 less points on PCS and still had the same result, with the way the competition worked out. I do think his LP was decent from the artistic perspective though. But then, his LP last year was too, Jeff Buttle gave him a great vehicle that fit well enough. Actually, I would also say his LP last year (Olympics version) was a little better.

ETA - for that matter, Zhou's Olympic LP deserved to be scored higher on Performance/Choreography/Interpretation than Nathan Chen's at the event. But of course, the judges aren't meaningfully examining and assessing these things well enough, so instead the inferior jump-fest program got the higher PCS because Nathan was the "chosen champion".

tral · Apr 15, 2019

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
Yes, his "ploy" to develop his overall skating and try to interpret a more mature piece of music was so underhanded of him! Maybe next season he will plot to improve his techniques further and plot to develop his artistry even further, and this "unfortunately" might also work.

Don't you just hate it when skaters use the ploy of making good program decisions and putting in the effort to achieve better outcomes, and it works?!

Sure.

Mathman said:
You say that like it's a bad thing.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Apr 15, 2019

Blades of Passion said:
It didn't "work", though. There was no advancement in Zhou's artistry.

Well, except it DID work - he's got a World bronze and progressively higher PCS scores to prove it. :biggrin:

While I'm not a huge fan of his FS, in both programs he progressively showed greater sensitivity to the music and they do have some lovely highlights in them. He has more speed and he looks less stiff than last season. He's a bit of a Sakamoto for me - not quite there and there's something still slightly awkward about him, but he's enjoyable to watch and has some great elements, and there has been improvement (although perhaps rewarded a bit more than I would have on my scorecard).

I don't think it should have been more than 85 PCS for that FS, but he did skate clean with excellent technical content and was fully committed to the program. He's not a 90-level skater yet, but his potential is there. As much as anyone might want to debase his choreography/artistry, there's no denying that he had two brilliant competitions (in Japan no less, so you can't even claim home cooking) to end the season and proved his Worlds bronze was no fluke. Like, it's incredible that this same skater was scoring in the 220's earlier this year (204 at the US classic), even if you don't like him or his skating, he deserves credit for bringing on the heat later in the season, especially when it counted most (at Nationals/Worlds).

His bronze at Worlds did have something to do with PCS - he won by 11 points with 2.68 higher PCS in the SP than Worlds 2018 and 7.36 points higher PCS than his FS at the Olympics... Sure, he still could have eked out the bronze with the same PCS as last season, but this PCS helped him score higher. If Uno had skated better, then the argument for Zhou's PCS earning him bronze would have more bearing but why should Uno doing better/worse determine the importance of Zhou's PCS in his final score/result? It's like saying "Oh, Chen didn't win on PCS and only won by 20+ points because he did all these technically brilliant things to get points, and because Hanyu failed to do his 4S in both programs." Well, yeah. That's how figure skating competitions work.

Blades of Passion · Apr 15, 2019

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
While I'm not a huge fan of his FS, in both programs he progressively showed greater sensitivity to the music

No he didn't, what are you looking at and listening to? His skating had virtually nothing to do with Exogenesis, certainly not in any deep way. He did better with his SP last year, moving more to the cadence of the music and even the lyrics (such as lifting his leg up on the camel, during the lyric of "show me your garden, bursting into life", or his steps during the "let's chase cars" part), it was much more understandable for him. There was an innocence and youthful hopefulness and sense of determination to the piece that made more sense. In his Exogenesis program, it was just generic "lift arms over the head and try to have them float down by my side" kind of movements, a totally superficial interpretation. The leg kick he tries to do at the start of the program is particularly atrocious.

Giselle · Apr 16, 2019

For me it has to be Christina CARREIRA / Anthony PONOMARENKO in 2016-2017.

Pretty it inspired GUIGNARD & FABBRI and ZAGORSKI & GUERREIRO the following year.

Eeyora · Apr 17, 2019

https://www.instagram.com/p/BwV6KIABoy4/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1vin1j4lyuark

Irony?

Favorite Exogenesis Symphony Part III Program

zanadude

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

Jeanie19

fzztsimmons

Seven Sisters

Kelly Lynn

tral

Match Penalty

WeakAnkles

invisiblespiral

Amei

CanadianSkaterGuy

Mathman

purplecat

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

tral

Match Penalty

CanadianSkaterGuy

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be

Giselle

Eeyora

Similar threads

Connect with us