Dance Boots - How Stiff is Too Stiff?

Hello!
I'm looking into getting a pair of dance boots, and as it's a big investment, I want to make sure I make the right decision. Right now, I'm considering Jacksons, and I know they have two models that could be used as dance boots (Supreme 5410 Low Cut and Debut Fusion Low Cut). The Supreme 5410s have a stiffness rating of 80 (they can also be used for double/triple jumps - I would just be using them for dance), and the Debut Fusion Low Cut has a stiffness of 45. While I'm leaning much more toward the Supremes, as I'm doing Silver and Pre-Gold dances (and Novice Combined), I just want to make sure they're not too stiff. Has anybody had experience with dance boots before in terms of how a high stiffness would affect depth of knee bend? Would the 80 be difficult to get good knee bend and flexibility in? I checked some other brands as well just to see how their dance boots' strength was in comparison, and Edea's Flamenco Ice has a stiffness rating of 70 (of course, I know it's not the same scale as Jacksons), but was suitable for all dance levels.
Thank you

Low Cut Lightweight 60-70 stiffness for a dance boot is what you want if you are higher level test for dance.

Are you planning to do both freestyle and dance with the same boots and blades? I am struggling with the same thing. I’m working on novice moves and want to continue doing double jumps. I started dancing 2 years ago in my pianos/p99 and now that I’m up to silver pattern dance they are getting to be a hinderance, even though I love them for jumping. Considering whether to get 2 different setups or just going for something I can do both in. Would love to hear what everyone’s doing.

jf12 said:

Are you planning to do both freestyle and dance with the same boots and blades? I am struggling with the same thing. I’m working on novice moves and want to continue doing double jumps. I started dancing 2 years ago in my pianos/p99 and now that I’m up to silver pattern dance they are getting to be a hinderance, even though I love them for jumping. Considering whether to get 2 different setups or just going for something I can do both in. Would love to hear what everyone’s doing.

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How are you dancing in your P99s? I'm worried you will have issues when you finally switch to a dance blade and deal with the lack of picks compared to that of the teeth on that freestyle blade esp 99's which I wear for freestyle, that is a very large lower pick. Great for jumps, but will hurt you with dance.

If you need any recommendations, let me know.

I'm going to have a pair of skates devoted to dance and another for freestyle, since I'm going to mount dance blades on the boots as well. I've been jumping and dancing in my current skates, and just have to adjust the lacing when I switch between disciplines. Hoping the dance skates are a good investment, as dancing in my freestyle boots makes it harder to get down in my knees, and the freestyle blades are harder to do mohawks/choctaws with.

JumpinJava said:

I'm going to have a pair of skates devoted to dance and another for freestyle, since I'm going to mount dance blades on the boots as well. I've been jumping and dancing in my current skates, and just have to adjust the lacing when I switch between disciplines. Hoping the dance skates are a good investment, as dancing in my freestyle boots makes it harder to get down in my knees, and the freestyle blades are harder to do mohawks/choctaws with.

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I competed at a high level in both for years and still wear separate dance and freestyle boots. My freestyle boots are custom Jackson, my dance boots are Risport dance.

Ic3Rabbit said:

How are you dancing in your P99s? I'm worried you will have issues when you finally switch to a dance blade and deal with the lack of picks compared to that of the teeth on that freestyle blade esp 99's which I wear for freestyle, that is a very large lower pick. Great for jumps, but will hurt you with dance.

If you need any recommendations, let me know.

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Honestly it’s not great, I always get comments on my tests about being stiff even as I get compliments on pattern size and extension. I’m getting into the American and the turns are loud. I know you are a pro so it’s prob really easy for you to switch between boots, but do most intermediate skaters find it pretty easy to adjust? I figure it would be since what we do in each boot is quite separate. I’m not really working on any free dances etc so I don’t have to worry about doing all my spins in both.

Given how much the Jackson supremes cost, I'm just going to put in a good word for SP-Teri's dance boot. Yes, I know they're closing within the year, but it's an awesome boot that's actually cheaper than the Supreme. SP-Teri doesn't list stiffness the same way other brands do, but as an adult on the small side, I've had no problem breaking them in - they are very comfortable and provide great support for dance and even some jumping (probably not anything higher than singles, but you mentioned getting separate boots for freestyle anyway, so that wouldn't be an issue). They have a low cut back, low-ish heel, and flex notch for deep knee bends. I absolutely love mine!

jf12 said:

I know you are a pro so it’s prob really easy for you to switch between boots, but do most intermediate skaters find it pretty easy to adjust? I figure it would be since what we do in each boot is quite separate.

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Following because I'm also curious! I am starting to realize I may need both freestyle and dance blades soon

jf12 said:

Honestly it’s not great, I always get comments on my tests about being stiff even as I get compliments on pattern size and extension. I’m getting into the American and the turns are loud. I know you are a pro so it’s prob really easy for you to switch between boots, but do most intermediate skaters find it pretty easy to adjust? I figure it would be since what we do in each boot is quite separate. I’m not really working on any free dances etc so I don’t have to worry about doing all my spins in both.

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I've been switching between boots from about 10 years old since I competed in both. It took awhile to adjust at first and then it doesn't bother me much since.

You have several options for dance boots or lowcut freestyle. I wore semi custom lowcut boots for dance coming up through the ranks and then switched to a fully custom around the time I hit Junior level. I have custom Risport dance boots now. I wear the MK Dance blade.

Many dancers now are wearing Edea Flamenco boots and said they love them. I have worn Apex Dance blades from time to time and liked them, there are several elite dance teams that wear Flamenco and Apex dance paired together such as Hubbell Donohue.

If you have trouble centering spins/twizzles etc you may want to look into a parabolic version of the dance blade. Just an idea.

If you have any more questions, you can PM me. Good luck!

JumpinJava said:

I'm going to have a pair of skates devoted to dance and another for freestyle, since I'm going to mount dance blades on the boots as well. I've been jumping and dancing in my current skates, and just have to adjust the lacing when I switch between disciplines. Hoping the dance skates are a good investment, as dancing in my freestyle boots makes it harder to get down in my knees, and the freestyle blades are harder to do mohawks/choctaws with.

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For my theoretical separate pair I am definitely planning going down in stiffness from my freestyle boots, I think it’ll feel great. One thing to think about as well is heel height. All my Russian dance coaches have super high heels on their boots which I don’t think these hybrid Jacksons have. I think the Flamenco ic3rabbit suggested is kind of in the middle of these extremes. It’s certainly on my top list of boots to consider. Lots of people I asked have customs, but I haven’t been dancing long enough to know exactly what I would want for custom boots, so I’m not really considering those yet.

jf12 said:

For my theoretical separate pair I am definitely planning going down in stiffness from my freestyle boots, I think it’ll feel great. One thing to think about as well is heel height. All my Russian dance coaches have super high heels on their boots which I don’t think these hybrid Jacksons have. I think the Flamenco ic3rabbit suggested is kind of in the middle of these extremes. It’s certainly on my top list of boots to consider. Lots of people I asked have customs, but I haven’t been dancing long enough to know exactly what I would want for custom boots, so I’m not really considering those yet.

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The Flamenco is rated at 60-70 like I mentioned above so it's definitely rated for being one of the higher stiffness of dance boots.

I wear Graf Dance. I don't know where they are on the "stiffness rating" scale but I've always liked and required really stiff boots and I adore these. Very low at the sides as well as the back, and I found them utterly terrifying at first but once I adjusted, I was a total convert. I've never been this comfortable in skates! I don't have to leave the top lace hooks undone or very loose in order to get the deep knee bend and I still have all the support I require. I also have them in the L/Wide fitting and they are just fabulous.

WednesdayMarch said:

I wear Graf Dance. I don't know where they are on the "stiffness rating" scale but I've always liked and required really stiff boots and I adore these. Very low at the sides as well as the back, and I found them utterly terrifying at first but once I adjusted, I was a total convert. I've never been this comfortable in skates! I don't have to leave the top lace hooks undone or very loose in order to get the deep knee bend and I still have all the support I require. I also have them in the L/Wide fitting and they are just fabulous.

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This is good to hear! I've been curious about the Graf dance boot but didn't know anyone who wore Graf boots, let alone the dance model. Harder to come by Grafs in the USA, it seems. What was "utterly terrifying" about them - how low they are? How long would you say it took you to get used to them?

Well, I'd run across them 20 or so years ago, when they were fairly new, and for some reason discounted them, probably because I was also teaching free skating. Coming back to skating after a very bad accident, major surgery, relearning to walk, I felt that my competition fit Super Teri Deluxe weren't necessary for relearning to skate and I'd like some "coaching slippers". I'll never jump again and fancied trying dance boots. As I live in the far south west of the UK, options for buying skates are pretty much drive hundreds of miles (to an establishment that had recommended Edea Overtures for an ex pro, who would need a new pair of elite boots pretty much every year) or buy online and send them back if they obviously didn't fit.

I was idly browsing eBay one Saturday morning and up popped Graf Dance at a bargain price (£110), with an option to return them if unsuitable. I measured my feet (235mm in length and 230mm around the widest part) and the Graf size chart told me I needed a UK4.5. The seller had a pair, in a wide (L) fitting. This was slightly worrying, as I'd previously worn boots in a UK3. Admittedly they were on the tight side, but a 4.5 seemed a massive difference. Still, I could send them back so I ordered them.

Couldn't quite believe the level of comfort when they arrived. Somebody had written UK2.5 on the box in big black letters, but they were true to the size chart. I was unnerved by the fact I could wiggle my toes, but my foot fitted the footbed with just a small breathing space at the end, and I decided to keep them. New 9.5" MK Dance blades were ordered because mine were a 9.25" and a little short. You really, really can't have dance blades any shorter than end to end or you risk a nasty fall. I'd already found that out the hard way, many years ago!

It was only once the new blades were fitted, when I put the boots on and stood up, that I discovered how terrifyingly low they are. Really, honestly quite terrifying. All round, but especially at the back, where they are very low cut indeed. I felt very much "at sea" in them at first and thought I must have made an expensive mistake. I'm still not overly comfortable doing spirals in them, but everything else is fine. I found it took a several sessions to get used to them, longer than it's ever taken me before, but much of that may well be down to the fact that I have significant nerve damage and no muscle memory in my right leg and I'm 20 years older! The deciding factor was when I tried putting on thin socks, instead of just my usual one pair of tights. I also lace them much more tightly at the top than I ever did taller boots. Looking at other dancers who wear them, they appear to do the same with the lacing, which is encouraging. I asked a dance pro at a different rink if he'd found it difficult getting used to dance boots and was there a strategy and he said, "Just wear them and you'll get used to them. It's not the easiest of transitions but it will happen." And it did. The thin sock was the clincher for me (I wasn't used to not having small coffins on my feet!) and it may be that if I was still skating to my old standard, I'd want them fitting tighter still around the actual foot, but I wouldn't be looking for a different brand or model, just a different size. I truly love them.

The heel height of my 235/UK4.5 boots is just under 2", the height of the solid back is 3.5", with the soft cuff taking it up to a maximum of 4.25", but obviously that part is designed for comfort, not support. Measuring from roughly the middle of the instep at the top of the sole to the top of the highest part of the boot (above the top hook) is 6". I can't compare these measurements with a pair of ordinary boots, but I'm sure you can. I do recall that they were significantly shorter than my SP Teris.

A new friend (only a very beginner but struggling to find boots that fit her wide feet which are 235mm long and 245mm around) tried them on, beamed widely and said, "Oh! Heaven!" I can't comment on the "normal" (M) fitting, but the wide (L) is very definitely wide, although not as wide as Edea's E fitting, which is too wide for me.

I hope some of that answers your questions. If there's anything else you want to know, just ask.

Thank you so much for the additional details, WednesdayMarch!! This is very helpful! One more question: you mentioned having the "wide" model - is it wide in the heel, too, or just the toebox? I have split-width Sp-Teris to accommodate my narrow heels and wide toes, so I realize I'll probably never find a stock boot that fits, but I'll keep dreaming...

I think the L fitting is wide in the heel, too. If it helps, I don't think that the M (standard) fitting is particularly narrow at the toe box and I believe that there is an S (narrow) fitting available "on request".

I did all my gold dances in my P99s, but I find dancing much more comfortable now that I've got a pair of MK dance blades. I have 3 pairs of skates that I switch between regularly, sometimes within 10min of each other. Both pairs of figure skates are Riedell Fusions, one with P99 and the other MK dance. I also have a pair of hockey skates that I coach CanSkate in. I've never had any trouble switching between skates and I'm only a high level test skater, never competed.

I only really skate about an hour a week, but I've found that my dance boots have started to break down in about a year, however, I am a large skater (5'10'', 205lbs) and I've always been hard on my skates. Otherwise, I love the Fusions. They allow good knee bend and are solid enough for jumps.