Re-Scoring Top 11 Ladies at Worlds

Hello everyone! This is a little bit of an old topic but when Worlds ended I thought the Ladies' event scoring was generally fair. However, there were some posters on here that vehemently said it wasn't. With that being said, now that I had a great amount of free time yesterday, I decided to re-score the top 11 Ladies' at Worlds (I would have scored Loena too but I can't find her skates anywhere. ) Please note that I haven't done something like this before and haven't really judged events ever before so while I tried to be as impartial as I thought I could be and give the skaters what I thought was deserving, there are most likely going to be a good amount of discrepancies from other people's thoughts, and combined that with while I do have a decent amount of knowledge of the judging system, by no means am I an expert in it. Also note that one rule I followed was that as a judge, I am not the tech panel. It is not up to me to decide what jumps were underrotated and what levels certain skaters deserved. Also, I am not judging on underrotated jumps unless they are super obvious to me (However, I usually don't have an eye for them.) Lastly, I watched each skater twice. One for tech, and one for PCS. I tried to do it once, but I found that I was too focused on the tech and would just end up giving people high PCS if the programs had a lot of transitions and moves instead of counting each category as separate from the other. With that being said, this is what I found:

My Short Program Results: (Note that the formula will be TES+PCS=TSS)
1. Alina Zagitova 44.02+36.8=80.82
2. Kaori Sakamoto 42.08+37.4=79.48
3. Evgenia Medvedeva 38.1+37=75.1
4. Satoko Miyahara 37.14+36.8=73.94
5. Elizabet Tursynbaeva 40.51+33.4=73.91
6. Mariah Bell 39.34+33.4=72.74
7. Eunsoo Lim 39.89+32.4=72.29
8. Bradie Tennell 37.3+33.8=71.1
9. Rika Kihira 36.14+33.98=70.12
10. Sofia Samodurova 37.52+31.2=68.73
11. Gabrielle Daleman 35.9+32.2=68.1

My Free Skate Results:
1. Rika Kihira: 82.45+71.6-1=153.05
2. Alina Zagitova: 79.61+72.8=152.41
3. Evgenia Medvedeva: 76.44+72.8=149.24
4. Satoko Miyahara: 75.15+74=149.15
5. Kaori Sakomoto: 73.8+74=147.8
6. Bradie Tennell: 78.43+69.2=147.63
7. Elizabet Tursynbaeva: 79.01+68=147.01
8. Mariah Bell: 71.23+71.2=142.43
9. Sofia Samodurova: 72.41+66.8=139.21
10. Eunsoo Lim: 68.22+66-1=133.22
11. Gabrielle Daleman: 59.18+63.6 = 122.78


Final Results:
1. Alina Zagitova: 80.82+152.41=233.23
2. Kaori Sakamoto: 79.48+147.8=227.28
3. Evgenia Medvedeva: 75.1+149.24=224.34
4. Rika Kihira: 70.12+153.05=223.17
5. Satoko Miyahara: 73.94+149.15=223.09
6. Elizabet Tursynbaeva: 73.91+147.01=220.92
7. Bradie Tennell: 71.1+147.63=218.73
8. Mariah Bell: 72.74+142.43=215.17
9. Sofia Samodurova: 68.73+139.21=207.94
10. Eunsoo Lim: 72.29+133.22=205.51
11. Gabrielle Daleman: 68.1+122.78=190.99

Here Are the Placements I "Agreed" With (Got the Same Placements as the Judges):
Zagitova was the winner under how I judged it. While I think that Alina's PCS was a little too high in the SP and FS and her GOE's were too generous in the FS, I still agreed that she was the rightful winner.

I still agree with Medvedeva being the bronze medalist under this judging system, and while I may have given her a little more than the judges did, I still gave her the same placement.

Kihira's still rightfully in the 4th place. However, she should have won the free skate even with the fall on her 3A with the way I judged it because I thought Alina got some very generous GOE and PCS in the free skate.

Bradie's still in 7th, but I thought her GOE was a little low compared to the judges in the FS. (Again, I am aware that she possibly underrotated jumps. I am not looking for underrotations. I understand that this probably skewed some things.)

Eunsoo's still in 10th. I essentially gave her almost the exact same score as the judges did as well.

Gabby's in 11th. However, if I were able to re-watch Loena's skates she probably would have ended up 12th as I think Loena's PCS should be a little higher than what it is at the current moment.

The Placements I "Disagreed" With (Different Placements than the Judges):
Wow. I REALLY bumped up Sakamoto. I think what made the difference was not just the PCS, but I adored her jumps and gave her huge GOE's on them as well. I guess in my eyes under the judging system, Kaori wuzrobbed. However, I thought that she should have been rightfully off the podium before judging this...so I'm still a little confused as to how she ended up the silver medalist under the way I judged it? Hmmm...this judge under my judging system may need to get his glasses fixed.

Satoko should have been a spot higher, which isn't that significant. What was significant was how glaringly low her PCS is in actuality compared to what I think it should be. I was about on par with the judges on TES, but I boosted her PCS significantly in comparison.

I thought Tursynbaeva was rightfully deserving of a medal, so I'm a little surprised to see me rank her in 6th! I guess I just couldn't agree with her PCS in both programs and her GOE in the SP and thought it should have been a little lower, which made all the difference.

Sofia and Mariah should have swapped places. However, I really boosted Mariah's scores, especially in the free skate. I thought most of the elements she did were very well done, besides the 3Lz jumps, and I thought her PCS was criminally underrated. In no way should her PCS be lower than Tursynbaeva or Tennell (I thought this before I judged it though so that might be my personal bias coming out).

Also, just in general, while I touched on this before...I now understand why judges have a REALLY hard time judging PCS sometimes. I was inclined to give Bradie and Alina really high PCS when only watching once and Satoko lower PCS because I was rushing the PCS department and not paying attention to the PCS but mainly the tech elements. This further (at least for me) supports my ideas that there should be two judging teams: one for TES and one for PCS, as even for me (who when watching without judging values the "performance component" over the tech) I found myself giving bigger PCS to people who had crazy in-your-face transitions and high tech when only watching the skating once and trying to judge both TES and PCS.


TLDR; I thought judging at Worlds was fair, I did some judging of my own and in my eyes under that judging Kaori and Satoko and Mariah were underscored and Tursynbaeva was overscored. Kaori should have been 2nd if I judged it and Tursynbaeva should been 6th. It surprised me as I mostly agreed with the placements of Worlds.

Thanks for the analysis. I wish I was brave enough (or knowledgable enough) to try it.

This point was very interesting to me:

riopen said:

Wow. I REALLY bumped up Sakamoto. I think what made the difference was not just the PCS, but I adored her jumps and gave her huge GOE's on them as well. I guess in my eyes under the judging system, Kaori wuzrobbed. However, I thought that she should have been rightfully off the podium before judging this...so I'm still a little confused as to how she ended up the silver medalist under the way I judged it? ...

I thought Tursynbaeva was rightfully deserving of a medal, so I'm a little surprised to see me rank her in 6th! I guess I just couldn't agree with her PCS in both programs and her GOE in the SP and thought it should have been a little lower, which made all the difference.

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I wonder how many times the actual judges think that a skater deserves a higher placement (and even tries to make it happen by his/her scoring), but when the judge adds up the points that he/she actually awarded -- hey, it didn't work out that way!?

it's been quite a while since the last time we had #re-scoring or #skaterAwazrobbed thread. lol.
How come we can have someone on a pedestal with 1F pop while top-3 girls went clean with all their triples and 3-3 combos? C'mon.
Skater landed quad and made history - and she is off the podium?.. Simply because personal subjective PCS judgement? I quit reading after that 7th placement of Lil'Bet's FS. C'mon.

Thank you for the analysis @rlopen.

I was intrigued that you were honest enough to say, this is what I found when I rescored, even though I wasn’t expecting this result.

instead of just waving the flag for skaters you liked, dissing the ones you didn’t, or going on the defensive about results you didn’t expect. Which is what I would probably end up doing ETA: mostly because I wouldn’t take the time you did to rescore

Alexz said:

it's been quite a while since the last time we had #re-scoring or #skaterAwazrobbed thread. lol.
How come we can have someone on a pedestal with 1F pop while top-3 girls went clean with all their triples and 3-3 combos? C'mon.
Skater landed quad and made history - and she is off the podium?.. Simply because personal subjective PCS judgement? I quit reading after that 7th placement of Lil'Bet's FS. C'mon.

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If you did read you would have saw that in no way do I think that Kaori should be getting silver and that Tursynbaeva fully deserved a medal and that I was fully surprised to see her place 6th My prediction for how i THOUGHT my judging would turn out was 1. Zagitova 2. Tursynbaeva 3. Kihira 4/5. Medvedeva/Sakamoto 6. Miyahara 7. Tennell 8.Bell 9. Samodurova 10. Lim 11. Daleman. Also the whole #wuzrobbed thing was a joke and I make fun of myself for putting her that high. It’s all in good fun though and of course Tursynbaeva should be at the very least on the podium IMO (even though she didn’t under my judging!)

Alexz said:

How come we can have someone on a pedestal with 1F pop while top-3 girls went clean with all their triples and 3-3 combos? C'mon.

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I don't know about this particular contest, but in general, it seems possible that a skater might pop a 3F but make up ground in other areas? Love it or hate it, that's the IJS.

I quit reading after that 7th placement of Lil'Bet's FS. C'mon.

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Post your scoring!

rlopen said:

However, I really boosted Mariah's scores, especially in the free skate. I thought most of the elements she did were very well done, besides the 3Lz jumps, and I thought her PCS was criminally underrated. In no way should her PCS be lower than Tursynbaeva or Tennell (I thought this before I judged it though so that might be my personal bias coming out).

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I think Mariah is often under-scored too, particularly on PCS. I agree that she should not be scoring beneath Tennell or Tursynbaeva on PCS (or Zagitova, if we're being honest). It seems like USFS is pushing Bradie to be the #1. I would have understood that after last year -- she was the only American lady with jump consistency (save for Olympic solo SP). This year that consistency definitely eluded her. Sophomore year is always the hardest. Bradie has made real improvements, though, and her free skate at WTT was great. Mariah has also made significant improvements in her skating, especially on the jumping. She still had jumping problems at most competitions, but the 3-3 and 2A-3T are the most reliable they've ever been. I think if Mariah continues on this trajectory and works with Raf more on the jumps, she could challenge for the national title.

Hey nice work! I really enjoy seeing how others judged events by themselves. I actually did the same thing myself but with the top 10 on a few threads ago, and I’ll re-upload it here since it’s pretty relevant to the topic, and we can share our results. I think overall, I was a lot stricter .

randomfan said:

Brace yourselves for an incredibly long post (really sorry but dividing it into separate ones is too tedious). I decided to try judging the top 10 myself, just out of curiosity. Everyone has their own opinion, so if I hammerd your faves, I’ll apologize in advance and please don’t take it too seriously! Obviously these scores are not from the average of 7 judges like in actual protocols, so PCS always ends with a 0, and factored GOE values are not as diverse. The brackets have the skater’s original placement and score.

SP:
1. Sakamoto 42.34+34.40 = 76.74 (2; 76.86)
2. Zagitova 42.56+33.40 = 75.96 (1; 82.08)
3. Lim 40.74+32.60 = 73.34 (5; 72.91)
4. Miyahara 37.49+35.60 = 73.09 (8; 70.60)
5. Medvedeva 37.41+35.40 = 72.81 (4; 74.23)
6. Tursynbaeva 40.29+32.40 = 72.69 (3; 75.96)
7. Kihira 36.86+33.40 = 70.26 (7; 70.90)
8. Samodurova 37.86+32.00 = 69.86 (9; 70.42)
9. Bell 36.76+33.00 = 69.76 (6; 71.26)
10. Tennell 36.11+33.00 = 69.11 (10; 69.50)

URs on Bell’s 3T, Medvedeva’s 3T, Miyahara’s 3T, Tennell’s 3T

FS:
1. Kihira 79.28+70.00-1 = 148.28 (2; 152.59)
2. Zagitova 74.64+68.00 = 142.64 (1; 155.42)
3. Miyahara 70.85+71.00 = 141.85 (6; 145.35)
4. Tursynbaeva 74.70+66.40 = 141.10 (4; 148.80)
5. Tennell 73.64+66.80 = 140.44 (7; 143.97)
6. Sakamoto 69.41+70.40 = 139.81 (5; 145.97)
7. Bell 66.40+68.00 = 134.40 (9; 136.81)
8. Medvedeva 66.48+66.40 = 132.88 (3; 149.57)
9. Samodurova 67.52+64.40 = 131.92 (8; 138.16)
10. Lim 65.36+63.60-1 = 127.96 (10; 132.66)

URs on Zagitova’s 3Lo, Kihira’s second 3A, Medvedeva’s first 3Lo and second 2A, Miyahara’s 3F and 2Lo, Tennell’s 2Lo
“e” call on Sakamoto’s 3Lz, Medvedeva’s 3Lz
“!” call on Tennell’s first 3Lz, Samodurova’s 3Lz (really unsure of this, so I gave benefit of the doubt), both of Bell’s 3Lz and first 3F, Lim’s first 3Lz

Total:
1. Zagitova 218.60 (1; 237.50)
2. Kihira 218.54 (4; 223.49)
3. Sakamoto 216.55 (5; 222.83)
4. Miyahara 214.94 (6; 215.95)
5. Tursynbaeva 213.79 (2; 224.76)
6. Tennell 209.55 (7; 213.47)
7. Medvedeva 205.69 (3; 223.80)
8. Bell 204.16 (9; 208.07)
9. Samodurova 201.78 (8; 208.58)
10. Lim 201.30 (10; 205.57)

I have to say, I’m very surprised at how things turned out, even though I tried to be as objective as possible. I didn’t remove any calls that already existed, but I still wasn’t as lenient as the actual TP was. Also I didn’t change levels for spins and steps because I’m still not entirely sure on the requirements. And lastly, I’m not too good at “!” calls, so I might have missed some.

As many posters here have already pointed out, the Japanese ladies’ programs are superior to the others, and so it seems that in my scoring, their PCS were what mainly helped their scores. Yes, I gave Satoko URs, but her PCS was still underscored in both programs, so she has a small difference in total score. I personally think Bradie’s PE is a lot better than people say it is, so that definitely helped her PCS too. And for Evgenia, I too was really shocked at how low she got. Even with the calls, I didn’t think she’d get a whole 10 points less in TES, but now I see that the big difference in GOE also contributed to that. As for the relatively low PCS, I really don’t see much in this program. The choreo is dull, there aren’t many transitions, and even though she's known for selling her programs, her PE here wasn’t that great. Her SP PCS would’ve translated to a 70.80 in the FS, which shows how lacking this program is in comparison.

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Alexz said:

Skater landed quad and made history - and she is off the podium?.. Simply because personal subjective PCS judgement? I quit reading after that 7th placement of Lil'Bet's FS. C'mon.

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Two of the actual judges at the World Championships placed her 7th in the FS, so apparently, they agreed with rlopen. In fact, OP gave her exactly the median FS score compared to the real event (147.01, USA).

Actually, the OP FS scores are *all* within the range of the actual judges' marks. (The only real difference is Mariah Bell, who in the real event got a big outlying score of 147.69 from the German judge.) Averaging makes a huge difference in regards to final placements in the actual event.