How to confront a trainer about skating level

Carloucarla · May 2, 2019

Hi everyone, I'd like some help...
So I started figure skating when I was 9, competed for the 1st time when I was 10'in freestyle 2, though my trainer said I could do the 3 , but she said since it was my 1st competition, I should do the 2 since it would be less stressful. I got most of my single jumps except the lutz when I was 11 and a half. I then had to move country and leave my trainer, I was so sad! I waited 6 months without skating since I couldn't find an open rink. When I was 12, I found a skating club: they had two categories: leisure and competition. My mom asked if I could join the club, one coach ( let's call her Patricia) said I could join the level 6 directly ( equivalent to freestyle 3 ish), but the director said I didn't have my skates (they were still packed in the moving boxes), so I had to go to a the level 1 (approx level of the basic 1). Patricia said it didn't matter and that I was supposed to be able to join level 6 and that if it was too hard without my skates, I'd drop levels.

Anyway I went from level 1 to level 4 with rentals, found my skates back went to level 5, luckily Patricia was the coach so she let me pass to level 6, skipping the 5.
I was still really bored in level 6, got to level 7, same thing. I met some Ice dancers who wanted to try figure skating. Guess what: they can't even do a proper waltz jump and a toe loop but they can go to level 7 anyway! I was kinda pissed since they've under estimated me! The girls were still very nice so we are good friends!

Since they don't master all single jumps, and I'm in the same group, I'm currently working on the salchow, I skill I master for over 3 years...
So, last September, I met Patricia at another rink at one hour away from my house. I told her I was bored and since I was in the leisure category, I missed competing and the discipline I had with my coach.
She told me I could join another club. (Which I'm very pleased to this day)

So I'm at two clubs. Since the one I don't like is closer to my house, I do skating camp there. Normally at skating camp we work on doubles and axels etc... (I don't have the axel nor doubles)
Well it's interesting since I already have my singles except the axel and it's fun to work on different elements.
Same thing for spins...

Anyway Patricia left the club I attend. She isn't my coach so I have another coach. (Lets call him John).
John is a fun coach, but we only work on singles, not even the axel. Since it's group lessons, if most of the group need to work on toe loops, we do toe loops till the rest of the lesson.

I think I could join the group above , but I don't dare to ask because I don't want to offend anyone, or create some drama in a skating lesson.

What do you think I should do? How could I approach him? He is really busy and I feel like I'm bothering him even just to ask a question...

Sam L · May 2, 2019

I love confrontations. You need to stand your ground, be confident and straight to the point. I'm a little confused by where the drama or the "problem" is in your post though?

Carloucarla · May 2, 2019

Sam L said:
I love confrontations. You need to stand your ground, be confident and straight to the point. I'm a little confused by where the drama or the "problem" is in your post though?

Well since I can't talk to my coach after lessons, I have to do it during the lesson. I don't want to sound rude or that other people think I'm pretentious... Worst part, since John is friends with all of the other coaches well my reputation will be horrible.

Since I'm at two clubs at a time, I'm considering leaving this club but here are the disadvantages:

The club that I don't like is where all of my friends are, and it's close to my house, when I go to skating camp, I don't need to waste 2h in trafic. However the lessons themselves are crap

The club that I like is hard, and competitive, the lessons are level appropriate. However, I have a hard time fitting in as they are all at the same school and knew each other for ages. It is also really far away

Rina RUS · May 2, 2019

Hi. (and welcome!)

I think you should just try. You are still young, right? Well, when I was young, I could practice a question for many times in my mind - before I really tried to ask. I was shy to open closed doors (because I thought everyone was busy), I could ask my classmate: "Let's ask that." - because I didn't dare to do it on my own.

It's OK to try.

It's OK to do it together with your mom (even when we are adult people, sometimes members of our families or our friends help us - when we feel unwell or when we don't know something). Maybe you may do it on your own. Maybe it's better to say something like: "My mother also thinks it would be better for me" - if your mom pays for these trainings.

Anyway... coaches are paid for their work with skaters, so they don't want to lose skaters, so they are not too busy to hear something like "please, I want to continue skating, I think I'm ready to try training in the group above - what could you advise me?"

I think it's better not to say "you are paid for this work!". It is better to be polite and respectful. It is better not to think you are confronting the trainer, when he is the one to whom you talk (you just tell him, that maybe the trainings could be more helpful for you).

You think you could offend somebody... Other skaters? Well, if it is impossible to choose a moment, when only your coach hears you, it's enough to be polite. You can say: "I have friends in this group, but I feel I should work on those jumps, those elements, should try competing again..." (right? you competed, but now you don't compete?)

I think we all just need practice in such issues as well. Sometimes we notice, that busy people are not too busy to talk to us, sometimes we learn to save good relations with a friend even if we offended him - and later talking to other people becomes easier for us. Almost all adult people can do it easily enough - just because they had to do it again and again. I mean... anyway you have a wonderful opportunity to practice solving such problems. Anyway you'll get some experience. I think you'll anyway become stronger thanks to this practice.

I can't judge about your skating, but I think it's better to try to talk, if you feel you should try.

Good luck!

Carloucarla · May 2, 2019

Rina RUS said:
Hi. (and welcome!)

I think you should just try. You are still young, right? Well, when I was young, I could practice a question for many times in my mind - before I really tried to ask. I was shy to open closed doors (because I thought everyone was busy), I could ask my classmate: "Let's ask that." - because I didn't dare to do it on my own.

It's OK to try. It's OK to do it together with your mom (even when we are adult people, sometimes members of our families or our friends help us - when we feel unwell or when we don't know something). Maybe you may do it on your own. Maybe it's better to say something like: "My mother also thinks it would be better for me" - if your mom pays for these trainings.

Anyway... coaches are paid for their work with skaters, so they don't want to lose skaters, so they are not too busy to hear something like "please, I want to continue skating, I think I'm ready to try training in the group above - what could you advise me?"

I think it's better not to say "you are paid for this work!". It is better to be polite and respectful. It is better not to think you are confronting the trainer, when he is the one to whom you talk (you just tell him, that maybe the trainings could be more helpful for you).

You think you could offend somebody... Other skaters? Well, if it is impossible to choose a moment, when only your coach hears you, it's enough to be polite. You can say: "I have friends in this group, but I feel I should work on those jumps, those elements, should try competing again..." (right? you competed, but now you don't compete?)

I think we all just need practice in such issues as well. Sometimes we notice, that busy people are not too busy to talk to us, sometimes we learn to save good relations with a friend even if we offended him - and later talking to other people becomes easier for us. Almost all adult people can do it easily enough - just because they had to do it again and again. I mean... anyway you have a wonderful opportunity to practice solving such problems. Anyway you'll get some experience. I think you'll anyway become stronger thanks to this practice.

I can't judge about your skating, but I think it's better to try to talk, if you feel you should try.

Good luck!

Thank you so much! Actually I'm 13 and I also thought bringing my parents, I don't compete anymore and that's what I miss the most! Well what bothers me the most is that ( I really don't want to sound/be rude) since my skating ability is better then the other skaters of my group, when our coach asks us to work on an element (for instance the scratch spin) he will just tell me "your spin is really good" and not let me try anything else or say something like "your spin is god but you should focuse on being more centered" etc. He will just say "good" and leave, even though I know there is still room for perfection. If all my jumps and spins are "really good" as he says well I don't see why I can't work on something else...

I really think that being in this group "pulls me back"

I also feel really bad coming back from practice and tell my mom I didn't do anything new.

Mamamiia · May 2, 2019

Isn't there a guideline for the level placement? Regardless what other skaters are doing, I think you should use the guideline and prove that you can meet the requirements of whatever level you think you should be placed.

Rina RUS · May 2, 2019

Carloucarla said:
I don't want to sound rude or that other people think I'm pretentious... Worst part, since John is friends with all of the other coaches well my reputation will be horrible.

I think it is possible to say: "Excuse me, maybe it wouldn't be easy for me, but I'd like to try training in the group above. I competed before - and it seems to me I need competitions to become better". The words "maybe it wouldn't be easy for me" can show your mates and your coach, that you don't think you are too good, that you want to work. If he insists you should stay in this group, you still can try to say: "Could you, please, tell me on trainings what I can do to become better?"

Of course, nobody knows what will happen, if you try to do it. Nobody knows what can happen to a person. We can just hope and keep trying to do our best.

As for possible mistakes... sorry, I'm not sure, that you like Yagudin, but this is the story which I remember. He thought his coach (Mishin) wanted Plushenko to win (Yagudin and Plushenko practised in the same group). Mishin asked: "Is it true you are going to leave me?" Yagudin said it was true. Yagudin says he had been crying all night long, when he had to leave Mishin. He doesn't explain why he was crying, but he could win competitions with Mishin, he was 18 years old, he didn't know another way to get money. Then Tarasova agreed to work with Yagudin. He had to go to America with Tarasova, now his mom was crying. He left his friends, left all he had.
When he was adult, teenagers asked him about love: how many times his heart was broken. He said: "Two times." As for his broken heart, he tells his mom was saying: "Are you a fool? Your life begins, and you are crying."
In short... he won enough medals with Tarasova, he has a wonderful wife, he has wonderful kids. As for his "reputation"... media even wrote that he drank too much alcohol, that he fought "three times a week" (he says he'd rather lie down and close his head with his hands). He doesn't try to make people forget he was arrested by police. I just mean... life goes on, many people do work with him, many people do like him. I do like him - not only as a skater, but as a person as well.

Our mistakes or our troubles are not an epic disaster (even though sometimes we do think so)

treblemakerem · May 2, 2019

If you are worried about it you could downplay it a bit. Just tell them you are interested in competing again and ask what you need to work on in order to go up to the next group. Then might just move you up or they might give you something specific you should practice first. It sounds like you are only in group lessons. Is it not possible for you to do some private lessons? Then it would be much easier and your coach would give you individual things to improve. I’m not sure where you are from but in my area most people at your level would have a private coach even they were also in group lessons. If you want to compete I think you will need a private coach anyway.

sandraskates · May 2, 2019

Your parents or guardians (whomever is paying for your lessons) should talk to the skating director and request to have you evaluated.
If you've mastered the skills at your current assigned level, then you'll be moved up upon the director's evaluation.
If you're going to compete you'll need a private coach so perhaps you can start some private lessons too.

Lulu39 · May 2, 2019

Things will get better when you get a private coach! I didn't get a private coach until I was a teenager and I really wish I had started sooner. Especially if you are ghetting more advanced and you feerl the group is pulling you back! Otherwise it could be a waste of your time and money and all that effort. Find a coach who seems align with your goals based on the private students they have or the competitions they attend. Once you find a coach you can work with you will have individual goals for your own competition track. Your parents can help you figure out the best coach for you to work with if it seems difficult.

Carloucarla · May 3, 2019

Well, the hard part, is where I live, private coaches are kind of rare, there is one of my coaches (let's call him Lance) who is in my club, that said he could coach me. However Lance is a choreographer for many popular ice skating shows and he is sometimes too busy to coach. Where I live, if you want to compete, you are in a age/level category. If you want to compete in lower levels (for them low levels are like freestyle 5), you must find a way to compete. If you want to compete with your skating club, you must have a special level.

If I get my axel, I will join my second club's competition team.

Although it will take me some time since we don't work a lot on the axel in my current club (the one who isn't level appropriate)

Apparently, Lance might be able to make me participate in competitions, or , if I don't have the proper level, he could coach me to get there.

Clarice · May 3, 2019

The thing is, they can't know what your goals are if you don't tell them. I agree with advice that has already been given - tell your trainer what your goals are, and ask what you need to do to be able to achieve them. For instance, "I would like to be able to compete, and I would like to learn my axel. What can we do to make that possible?" I can't imagine any coach being offended by a skater wanting to learn more!

Carloucarla · May 3, 2019

The director knows I want to compete. When I joined their club I asked if I could join their team. They said no. That was about two years ago and they didn't know my skating abilities so it was normal. This year, my mom asked if I could join the team again they said I had the level, but not the "mentality of a figure skater". I thought it wasn't true since they never saw me train competitively, during lessons, I knew I was in the leisure group so my mind wasn't on "compete mode".
My parents also thought it was none sense since with my old coach I had that discipline.

Rina RUS · May 3, 2019

Carloucarla said:
Well, the hard part, is where I live, private coaches are kind of rare, there is one of my coaches (let's call him Lance) who is in my club, that said he could coach me. However Lance is a choreographer for many popular ice skating shows and he is sometimes too busy to coach.

Maybe you can use even this small opportunity - if you really need to change the situation.
"Do what you can - and let things happen as they will."

Don't worry too much about a possible mistake or "reputation". Anyway everyone makes some mistakes and overcomes some problems, even if somebody does his best to be perfect. Even after a mistake which seems to be horrible, you can find people who will agree to work with you or will help you. Normal adult people know, that everyone makes mistakes, - many are OK with this fact. I used to worry about every step I make, now I think one's head works better, if he has an optimistic view of life.
People say it is better to try than to regret you didn't try. It is good, that you want your trainings to be useful. You are right.

(If you will see you can't change the situation... maybe you can enjoy what you have. Some sport is useful even for those of us who doesn't fight for medals.)

Ic3Rabbit · May 3, 2019

Carloucarla said:
Hi everyone, I'd like some help...
So I started figure skating when I was 9, competed for the 1st time when I was 10'in freestyle 2, though my trainer said I could do the 3 , but she said since it was my 1st competition, I should do the 2 since it would be less stressful. I got most of my single jumps except the lutz when I was 11 and a half. I then had to move country and leave my trainer, I was so sad! I waited 6 months without skating since I couldn't find an open rink. When I was 12, I found a skating club: they had two categories: leisure and competition. My mom asked if I could join the club, one coach ( let's call her Patricia) said I could join the level 6 directly ( equivalent to freestyle 3 ish), but the director said I didn't have my skates (they were still packed in the moving boxes), so I had to go to a the level 1 (approx level of the basic 1). Patricia said it didn't matter and that I was supposed to be able to join level 6 and that if it was too hard without my skates, I'd drop levels.

Anyway I went from level 1 to level 4 with rentals, found my skates back went to level 5, luckily Patricia was the coach so she let me pass to level 6, skipping the 5.
I was still really bored in level 6, got to level 7, same thing. I met some Ice dancers who wanted to try figure skating. Guess what: they can't even do a proper waltz jump and a toe loop but they can go to level 7 anyway! I was kinda pissed since they've under estimated me! The girls were still very nice so we are good friends!

Since they don't master all single jumps, and I'm in the same group, I'm currently working on the salchow, I skill I master for over 3 years...
So, last September, I met Patricia at another rink at one hour away from my house. I told her I was bored and since I was in the leisure category, I missed competing and the discipline I had with my coach.
She told me I could join another club. (Which I'm very pleased to this day)

So I'm at two clubs. Since the one I don't like is closer to my house, I do skating camp there. Normally at skating camp we work on doubles and axels etc... (I don't have the axel nor doubles)
Well it's interesting since I already have my singles except the axel and it's fun to work on different elements.
Same thing for spins...

Anyway Patricia left the club I attend. She isn't my coach so I have another coach. (Lets call him John).
John is a fun coach, but we only work on singles, not even the axel. Since it's group lessons, if most of the group need to work on toe loops, we do toe loops till the rest of the lesson.

I think I could join the group above , but I don't dare to ask because I don't want to offend anyone, or create some drama in a skating lesson.

What do you think I should do? How could I approach him? He is really busy and I feel like I'm bothering him even just to ask a question...

First of all, leave the club you dislike and skate at the one you do. Secondly you and your parents should be discussing this with your skating director and they need to resolve this.
Last but not least, don't rat on the ice dancers, they are doing many things that are more difficult than singles skaters (I do both), and just because someone doesn't jump, doesn't mean they aren't a skilled skater.

Carloucarla · May 4, 2019

Ic3Rabbit said:
First of all, leave the club you dislike and skate at the one you do. Secondly you and your parents should be discussing this with your skating director and they need to resolve this.
Last but not least, don't rat on the ice dancers, they are doing many things that are more difficult than singles skaters (I do both), and just because someone doesn't jump, doesn't mean they aren't a skilled skater.

I have nothing against ice dancers, most of them are my friends are they are really nice. It is just the fact that they came at an figure skating club, they didn’t know how to jump, but the director put them directly in level 7 anyway. Normally Îhave the right level of a group 7, it’s just since my club puts everyone in high levels just to please their skaters, well it doesn’t turn out well.

Elija · May 4, 2019

Uhh, ice dancers are figure skaters.... sounds like you’re talking about them as if they aren’t. And they have far better skating skills than most freestyle skaters, which is probably why they were pit in a higher group.

As for your question, I really don’t understand how asking about whether you could try a higher group would damage your reputation or create drama? I can’t imagine anyone would be offended by that, it’s not a criticism of the coach, just the group level. As others have mentioned, perhaps talk to the skating director if you don’t want to talk to your coach.

Carloucarla · May 4, 2019

Elija said:
Uhh, ice dancers are figure skaters.... sounds like you’re talking about them as if they aren’t. And they have far better skating skills than most freestyle skaters, which is probably why they were pit in a higher group.

As for your question, I really don’t understand how asking about whether you could try a higher group would damage your reputation or create drama? I can’t imagine anyone would be offended by that, it’s not a criticism of the coach, just the group level. As others have mentioned, perhaps talk to the skating director if you don’t want to talk to your coach.

Sorry about the ice dance thing, where I live, Ice dancers and figure skaters are different. Three ice dancers of my group are really good at both domains, which is why they are in the group 7, I was with them since we were in group 6 together.
However, the one thing that wasn't normal was the fact that to be in group 7, you must pass a test they call "national skate 1", in that test we have the three turns salchow toe loop scratch spin and camel. When another ice dancer came, she could barely do a scratch spin or a tweezle, nor basic steps, that many ice dancers master, but everyone is learning, so she doesn't have to be good at those now, however she is a fast learner, her camel spin is better than her scratch.

I talked with my parents if they could come at my lesson today, they said they might come and talk with my coach or the director.

Carloucarla · May 4, 2019

I also have this feeling where my club is just thinking about the money now days... They do only good stuff in front of the parents, and give people the test just because they paid for it....

Elija · May 4, 2019

Don’t know where you live, but it sure sounds like a bit of an unusual system!

How to confront a trainer about skating level

Carloucarla

Sam L

Carloucarla

Rina RUS

Carloucarla

Mamamiia

Rina RUS

treblemakerem

sandraskates

Lulu39

Carloucarla

Clarice

Carloucarla

Rina RUS

Ic3Rabbit

Former Elite, now Pro. ⛸️

Carloucarla

Elija

Carloucarla

Carloucarla

Elija

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