What makes a program "junior-ish"? | Golden Skate

What makes a program "junior-ish"?

lappo

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
I've seen multiple times programs being labeled as juniorish and I wonder if the label has more to do with the source material perceived as less serious, less classical (in the sense of being a universally recognized as great/masterpiece) or with the choreo/execution of the program itself. Discuss!
 

Harriet

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Country
Australia
For me it has less to do with the content of the program, though junior programs are usually simpler than senior programs and for good reason, and more to do with a skater lacking a quality of security in their movement and emotional maturity in their performance - that no matter what their technical elements are like, the things that take time to develop aren't (for obvious reasons) fully there yet.
 

hanyuufan5

✨**:。*
Medalist
Joined
May 19, 2018
Wobbliness and/or stiffness, lack of confidence, simple choreography, less elegant costumes.

...or in some cases, "juniorish" is code for "I don't like it and the skater is young so I can call it just call it juniorish and not actually say I don't like it".
 

Jetta

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
The term is mostly applied to programs and skaters that still lack some maturity. Specifically things like- not connecting to the music, not fully stretching out positions, slow spins, skating with little speed, labored jumps, lack of deep edges, little presentation, random arm movements. The last one is my biggest pet peeve. :)
 

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
United-States
...or in some cases, "juniorish" is code for "I don't like it and the skater is young so I can call it just call it juniorish and not actually say I don't like it".

Thank you for saying it ;)
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Slow speed is sometimes an issue, especially in junior ice dancers. This situation becomes glaringly obvious when they become seniors.

Another issue is undeveloped presentation, when the skaters fail to connect either with each other or the music, or fail to project to the audience.

And yes, like all negative comments, it is most often used of skaters the poster does not favor.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
I would say a lack of emotional maturity in the delivery of the program - things seem mechanical. Arms are loose/sloppy - or completely stiff - posture is poor, and elements aren't highlights so much as "getting it done". There is considerable effort to gain speed, and it isn't maintained.

A junior program could have a ton of transitions or huge difficulty (more than seniors, even), but if there is little expression or nuance, the program is less impactful.

Also agreed that when a poster doesn't favour a skater people are quick to call them "juniorish" in a pejorative manner.
 

ladyjane

Medalist
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Country
Netherlands
I would say a lack of emotional maturity in the delivery of the program - things seem mechanical. Arms are loose/sloppy - or completely stiff - posture is poor, and elements aren't highlights so much as "getting it done". There is considerable effort to gain speed, and it isn't maintained.

A junior program could have a ton of transitions or huge difficulty (more than seniors, even), but if there is little expression or nuance, the program is less impactful.

Also agreed that when a poster doesn't favour a skater people are quick to call them "juniorish" in a pejorative manner.

I agree with most of it, although 'juniorish' doesn't have to be pejorative. But perhaps we should call it 'skating young'. I recall Scott Hamilton stating in a very positive way Ilja Kulik still 'skating young' when Ilja deservedly won the olympics in 1998. Admittedly, I am one of the posters tending to call a programme juniorish when there's lots of jumps, random arm movements, mechanical moves, and too little expression. That doesn't mean it's got something to do with not favouring a skater. I love watching little Alexandra Trusova do her thing with all the quads and difficulties. But, her programmes can't replace the wonder and joy in a fully mature programme that glides by in no time at all to me. Which is probably why I don't particularly like Elizabet Tursynbaeva's skating in general, although I definitely admire her pluck and her jumps. And, her exhibition programme this season was fabulous because it showed she can be a very mature skater indeed. Now, if she were to transfer some of that to her competitive numbers, I'll never call her skating juniorish again!
 

Weathergal

Medalist
Joined
May 25, 2014
Some great comments here, and I agree with much of what's been said. I would add movements not being held.
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Now pls know I love Alysa Liu. She is adorable and fresh faced and like seeing MK at 13 who had the jumps but nothing else polished. I do like her but she is barely a junior but her skating lacks so much because well she is just a kid. But I hope she will stay in and work on edges,posture, arm positions and the rest. For now it is exciting that we too have a little pre puberty jumping bean. And she adores MK of course. The kid is like a cross between Tara and Michelle at that age.

It will be terrific if she one day competes against the Japanese and Russian girls doing those jumps. Juniorish defines her now. May she keep the jumps and gain the finesse. Good luck to her!
 

theharleyquinn

Medalist
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
There are a lot of good comments here on the delivery of a program. In terms of program design, if the only musicality built into the program is putting jumps on the obvious beats while other notes and flourishes in the music are completely skated through, that signals a juniorish program composition to me.
 
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