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Multi-national cultural expressions and idioms
- Thread starter gsk8
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Better to google everything then. Since it isn't always obvious that a word/phrase is a popular expression.
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- Mar 22, 2018
Now that's just going to extremes, by that logic then native english speakers (or non native english speakers, as I do use popular english expressions and american slang a lot, even though I have never lived outside of mexico) should not use any colloquialism/popular expression ever.
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Maybe it's off topic. I want to ask the native speakers of English (American) language. Are metaphors and hyperboles used in colloquial speech to enhance the emotional power of speech? My question is related to the attacks on Daniel G after his interview. I can also recall a similar situation after the statement of TAT about Trusova`s 4Lz on the control skates a year ago. I wonder if our languages are so different in terms of the overall structure? If something is not clear to me, I can ask here or there. But here I see how some people simply cannot understand it, insisting on a direct interpretation of what was said. Are such speech turns unfamiliar in other languages? In Russian colloquial this is very common, but it is never used in official documents. My English is very weak. Google translator is all for me 
Thank you if someone clarifies this to me.
Thank you if someone clarifies this to me.
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- May 19, 2018
Look, this forum is not exactly Eteri Fan Central. I think it's perfectly understandable that a non-native English speaker would make a knee-jerk assumption that "alligator" was an insult given how often other bad things about Eteri are said around here. Quite possibly, those same people would have thought to just Google it if it were said about, say, Yagudin or Orser or someone the forum at large is more favorable toward...
That being said, English has some wacky expressions. I think all languages have their fair share, but English seems to really take the cake (as far as I know), and least with regard to how flexibly they can be used as nouns, adjectives, verbs, etc. and not just proverbs.
Take the cake... hmm... Was the original cake a prize for something? Was someone a gradually escalating baked-goods thief who started off with a few cookies here and there and was finally caught and brought to justice after stealing someone's wedding cake right out of the wedding ceremony? Is "the cake" outdated slang for something and only "takes the cake" remains...? Was the original meaning something really vulgar, and we're all unknowingly using a euphemism for something that ought not be said in polite company?
...According to Google, "the cake" has been used to mean a symbolic prize since Ancient Greece. Good, no stolen wedding cakes or dirty euphemisms.
I think it's more cultural than grammatical. I'm a Russian-American native English speaker, and I definitely tone down the use of metaphors and hyperboles around non-Russians unless they use them a lot with me first. They work just fine grammatically, but they can cause some pretty messy misunderstandings for sure.
That being said, English has some wacky expressions. I think all languages have their fair share, but English seems to really take the cake (as far as I know), and least with regard to how flexibly they can be used as nouns, adjectives, verbs, etc. and not just proverbs.
Take the cake... hmm... Was the original cake a prize for something? Was someone a gradually escalating baked-goods thief who started off with a few cookies here and there and was finally caught and brought to justice after stealing someone's wedding cake right out of the wedding ceremony? Is "the cake" outdated slang for something and only "takes the cake" remains...? Was the original meaning something really vulgar, and we're all unknowingly using a euphemism for something that ought not be said in polite company?
...According to Google, "the cake" has been used to mean a symbolic prize since Ancient Greece. Good, no stolen wedding cakes or dirty euphemisms.
Maybe it's off topic. I want to ask the native speakers of English (American) language. Are metaphors and hyperboles used in colloquial speech to enhance the emotional power of speech? My question is related to the attacks on Daniel G after his interview. I can also recall a similar situation after the statement of TAT about Trusova`s 4Lz on the control skates a year ago. I wonder if our languages are so different in terms of the overall structure? If something is not clear to me, I can ask here or there. But here I see how some people simply cannot understand it, insisting on a direct interpretation of what was said. Are such speech turns unfamiliar in other languages? In Russian colloquial this is very common, but it is never used in official documents. My English is very weak. Google translator is all for me
I think it's more cultural than grammatical. I'm a Russian-American native English speaker, and I definitely tone down the use of metaphors and hyperboles around non-Russians unless they use them a lot with me first. They work just fine grammatically, but they can cause some pretty messy misunderstandings for sure.
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Take the cake probably originated from Cakewalk
Don't plan one in the USA. It is now associated with vaudeville and blackface performances.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cakewalk
Don't plan one in the USA. It is now associated with vaudeville and blackface performances.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cakewalk
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That's interesting. I've been to many school fundraisers and community festivals in which a cakewalk is just part of the fun.
Sometimes, I think Wikipedia has just gone off its rocker.
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Maybe just if you see something that isn't straightforward (I mean, 'alligator' might be an odd insult for a Russian, yes?) and you think might be insulting. Depending on the speaker's country, it might actually be both insulting and affectionate. Or fairly meaningless.
Maybe it's off topic. I want to ask the native speakers of English (American) language. Are metaphors and hyperboles used in colloquial speech to enhance the emotional power of speech? My question is related to the attacks on Daniel G after his interview. I can also recall a similar situation after the statement of TAT about Trusova`s 4Lz on the control skates a year ago. I wonder if our languages are so different in terms of the overall structure? If something is not clear to me, I can ask here or there. But here I see how some people simply cannot understand it, insisting on a direct interpretation of what was said. Are such speech turns unfamiliar in other languages? In Russian colloquial this is very common, but it is never used in official documents. My English is very weak. Google translator is all for me
Absolutely. All languages have a massive and constantly shifting store of colloquialisms, metaphors, slang etc and it's so culturally based and deep-rooted that translating, even for experienced linguists, is pothole central. I've read that in English, at least, most people use a metaphor (blithely unaware much of the time that it even is one) every 12-15 words in ordinary speech alone, and Russian and other languages, if you ask linguists, are probably the same. And that isn't even deliberate slang/colloquialisms. Most of it won't cause problems (except for the poor souls in language classes) but when it does...
And thank you for also reminding us, it isn't at all only non-English speakers misunderstanding English casual speech; we on our side need to remember that often the non-native speakers have translated a colloquialism from their language and can't be expected to instinctively know that we won't get the culturally specific meaning.
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i'm very familiar with that sign because...it's actually of Roman origin
brazilians probably inherited from the portuguese who took it from the Romans and it depicts...exactly what you think (male genitalia had a huuuge importance in ancient roman world as protection from bad luck, evil spirits and evil eyes, or as a charm to ensure fertility or wealth. it's well known, i'm sure many of you already know) nobody uses it in Italy anymore, but something related to all the fallus cult still exists, like touching your own family jewels (you know what i mean) to avoid bad luck.as for the sentence in question, it was quite clear to me that it wasn't and insult to Eteri, i mean it rhymes
but reading a lot this forum i'm probably familiar with El henry way of speaking (and i know she is a very polite person, i never read anything rude from her even in very controversial discussions).english of course it's not my first language, as my flag and my many unforgivable mispellings and errors can state, but i try to watch tv shows and movies in english every time a can, so maybe i'm more familiar than other users to the spoken language and slangs (to an extent)
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Hey, most non-native people on this forum impress me with their English. My own claim is that I speak four languages fluently. The fact that they are English, bureaucratese, academese and gobbledygook... is not important
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- Mar 16, 2019
Actually, not specifically 'alligator', but afaik in russian calling someone a 'crocodile' means they are ugly, so that's not that odd of an insult
So, not to excuse the misunderstanding, but whoever made that report, I can sorta understand the way they might have misunderstood that comment from a russian speaking point of view, if they were russian.
But we don't know if those people were russian speaking though, maybe alligator means something worse in other languages. :confused2:
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- Feb 10, 2014
First, may I just say that I am always super impressed by the English language skills of so many of you non-native speakers here on the forum - in a few cases I’ve been really surprised to find out that English is not your first language. Kudos!
As to misunderstandings....I’m someone who speaks several foreign languages with varying degrees of fluency, and if I am not sure of what someone means, I ask. I always try to remember that even in countries that share a language - say English in the US, Canada, and Australia, or Spanish in Spain and much of Latin America - the cultural context is different and words and phrases have different meaning. If you ask, you learn something and avoid misunderstandings. Native speakers will not always realize that something isn’t clear to you, and no one thinks less of you for asking.
As to misunderstandings....I’m someone who speaks several foreign languages with varying degrees of fluency, and if I am not sure of what someone means, I ask. I always try to remember that even in countries that share a language - say English in the US, Canada, and Australia, or Spanish in Spain and much of Latin America - the cultural context is different and words and phrases have different meaning. If you ask, you learn something and avoid misunderstandings. Native speakers will not always realize that something isn’t clear to you, and no one thinks less of you for asking.
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- Jun 21, 2003
When I was a boy those church fund-raisers and community carnivals always had a "Cake Walk," which meant not a dancing contest but a game like musical chairs where if you landed on the lucky number you won a cake. It was a very popular and profitable game. Popular with the customers because for 25 cents to play you might win a whole cake. And profitable for the organization because the cakes were donated by the church ladies and so it cost the organization nothing to give them away.
About the phrase "That takes the Cake!", here in Detroit old-timers sometimes say (same meaning) "Well, ain't that a Hattie McDaniell?!" This refers to the famous character actress form the 1930s (Gone With the Wind), but I never met anyone who could tell me exactly what was so "Well, ain't that somethin'!) about McDaniell.
But you can't say that nowadays. Ageism.
As for me, I overall try to avoid special expressions whenever possible, because it may create unnecessary commotion. Idiomatic expressions are no good in a culturally diverse environment.
We russians could say stuff like "trusova ate a dog on quads", for example. Just imagine the rumors that would be born from it
We russians could say stuff like "trusova ate a dog on quads", for example. Just imagine the rumors that would be born from it
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- Jun 21, 2003
Is that good or bad?
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- Feb 27, 2012
When I think of Hattie McDaniel, I think of her superb eloquence and dignity as she accepted her Academy Award in 1940:
:luv17:
I first saw this footage in 2006, and it has remained a powerful memory for me.
Always makes me emotional. :sad4:
https://youtu.be/e7t4pTNZshA (1:40)
:luv17:I first saw this footage in 2006, and it has remained a powerful memory for me.
Always makes me emotional. :sad4:
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- Jan 5, 2014
As for me, I overall try to avoid special expressions whenever possible, because it may create unnecessary commotion. Idiomatic expressions are no good in a culturally diverse environment.
We russians could say stuff like "trusova ate a dog on quads", for example. Just imagine the rumors that would be born from it
There would be no rumors at all.
