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Bigotry
PM me if you want to discuss this at length.
PM me if you want to discuss this at length.
Message received by Medvedeva at skating show
- Thread starter GS Forum Staff
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- May 19, 2018
In my opinion, both in this situation with Medvedeva and in your hypothetical situation with Satoko, it would be impossible for anyone but the writer to know if it were true racism or just a cheap insult that happened to involve an ethnicity/nationality. Certainly people can make racist or racist-sounding remarks that are personal rather than systemic. The writer might have zero problem with any Russians other than Medvedeva. (S)he could very well be a vicious fan of another Russian skater and consider Zhenya competition to his/her favorite.
But I agree that most people would be assuming racism if it were Satoko in the USA. And I'd be here saying that we don't know for sure in that case as well, and probably annoying the same people that this post will annoy.
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- Mar 28, 2014
Because the Japanese have a history of being marginalized in the US while being a minority (WWII anti-Japanese hysteria), that would be an example of racism. I actually don't agree with including the Japanese in that poster's response because there is that historical connection.
On the other hand, I think it's valid that the poster included Canadians and Russians. I find it difficult to get worked up and say someone is racist against a white person who doesn't have that history of being subverted as a minority. In reality, they're usually the ones doing the oppressing. What Evgenia received was wrong but I wouldn't call it racist. Bigoted and xenophobic? Absolutely.
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In the English language, racism is based on *race*.
If someone dislikes Evgenia because she is Russian, that is not racism. Russia is a country. Presumably Russia is a country made up of people from different races. Dislike of someone based on being “Russian” has nothing to do with race. It is bigotry, it is prejudice, it is NOT racism.
The example of Satoko confuses the issue because she both a different race and nationality than the current US majority population. The true parallel example would be a similar hateful note to Evgeny Plushenko from someone in the US. Is that racism? Not on its face, because Plushenko shares the same race as the (current) majority population. We would need to know more.
Is it an example of bigotry and prejudice, and just plain wrong?
Yes, and that’s all that counts.
If someone dislikes Evgenia because she is Russian, that is not racism. Russia is a country. Presumably Russia is a country made up of people from different races. Dislike of someone based on being “Russian” has nothing to do with race. It is bigotry, it is prejudice, it is NOT racism.
The example of Satoko confuses the issue because she both a different race and nationality than the current US majority population. The true parallel example would be a similar hateful note to Evgeny Plushenko from someone in the US. Is that racism? Not on its face, because Plushenko shares the same race as the (current) majority population. We would need to know more.
Is it an example of bigotry and prejudice, and just plain wrong?
Yes, and that’s all that counts.
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- Jun 21, 2003
I would not know how to characterize it. It could be racism -- I hate Asians. Or it could be a disgruntled fan -- I hate you for beating my fave Bradie Tennell at Skate America last year. For me, it is not always obvious what is going on in people's minds.
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- Nov 6, 2014
"Go back to Russia" and "get out of TCC". Hm, who could it be?
But everyone began to console Zhenya and immediately created the hashtag "ilovemedvedeva". The musician who played during the performance of Zhenya said to the whole audience “we all love you”, Miki Ando published posts with a declaration of love for her, other stuff like that. There was something wrong with that. I think that it was necessary to appeal to all that is unacceptable, and not to show it as if only Zhenya was a victim. No, this is a widespread problem.
It doesn't matter. The main thing I'm sure that Johnny published this letter with her permission.
Sorry but she doesn't. She laughs and answering with trolling to negative comments on instagram and organize there contest for the roughest comments. No need to play with such things.
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- Jul 9, 2014
This is a touchy subject for me. I grew up in a very conservative, mostly white town called Goleta. About 20 minutes north of Santa Barbara, Goleta is a Military town and my dad was an AF Officer. I had been in dance class from a very early age but it wasn't until I started working as a young dancer that I began to get bullied. Being black, I was easy to pick out. It was sad to me that the more I worked in town and on local commercials that things got worse. You try to write it off as jealousy but at times, it truly hurts. I feel for Med and hope her team is keeping her close and feeling confident.
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- Jun 21, 2003
? There is nothing wrong with that at all. Good for everyone who came out and showed support. She is in Japan doing her best to entertain in a skating show. There is nothing remotely controversial about it. Good for her. Ignore the meanies.
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Gosh, why are people like this? How vile and inappropriate to abhor such hatred towards a 19 year old young woman with immense talent and grace, who did nothing of the sort to deserve such extreme levels of verbal harassment. Not that this kind of harassment is ever warranted for anyone in general, mind you.
You keep on keepin’ on, Zhenya. You have the love and support of so many amazing people, located all over the world.
You keep on keepin’ on, Zhenya. You have the love and support of so many amazing people, located all over the world.
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- Apr 26, 2018
Okay, suddenly it‘s not a great thing if Japanese fans and colleagues give support to someone who‘s been unfairly treated, making it very clear that it‘s not right to treat anybody like that and showing that the message portrayed in the letter (Japanese people hate Evgenia) is not true at all. I need not hear more. If you advise Zhenya to focus on the positive, well, I‘d advise you the same. Because if you choose to see something even remotely wrong or controversial in people literally only showing their support and love to someone... well, I‘d say that‘s far worse than a 19 year old teenager being a bit upset over a hate letter and showing it to an adult who later on published it.
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While the actual note in question was handwritten, this entire scenario really highlights one of the major problems with social media. Cowardly individuals feel they can use anonymity to behave and speak in ways they would never consider while personally in their victim’s presence. As such, the internet has the unique ability to really bring out the worst in people.
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This problem was around long before social media. It's just more visible now because anything a person does can be all over the world in seconds, and because it's thus easier to get in contact with a person now.
Possibly the most vile response I've seen are the people who are convinced that Medvedeva herself wrote the letter as a PR stunt. Stay classy, folks.
Possibly the most vile response I've seen are the people who are convinced that Medvedeva herself wrote the letter as a PR stunt. Stay classy, folks.
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I think what Miki did was really sweet. She took something that was nasty and vile, and turned it towards something positive instead - giving people a chance to express their love and support.
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- Mar 28, 2014
This is an outdated way of "measuring" bigotry. For me, intention is irrelevant. It's equivalent to those morons on talk shows saying "I'm not racist/homophobic because I have a black/gay best friend". You absolutely need to be cognizant of what comes out your mouth.
This is the way of thinking police officers take when they go after a black person. "I don't care what they think, WHAT I PERCEIVE IS MORE IMPORTANT." They seem to pose a threat and so I will go into overdrive.
This is not equivalent but it fits. You nor I have the benefit of assuming the best of people. We're white people in the US. You nor I will probably never be placed into that position.
Clarity of dislike doesn't matter. It's still hatred and it needs to be discussed in an open manner instead of disguising it as merely a message from some Japanese rando.
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- Mar 26, 2014
I think that "xenophobia" would be the right word. At least, we use it in Russia when someone wants to show his dislike of foreigners. We very infrequently speak of racism. I guess, there is no racism in Russia in principle - the only slaves we used to have were from our own population.
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- Feb 27, 2014
Positives did happen from that disgusting letter.
Do you still want the author of that awful letter to be exposed publicly?
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OMG I saw that elsewhere and almost posted something, but that website doesn't work well on my phone so I didn't.
Seriously, though, that was messed up.
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- Feb 10, 2014
Gravy, I usually agree with your comments, but if you are saying that in a conflict of any kind between a white person and a person of color in the US, the white person is per se engaging in racist behavior or that the behavior is racially motivated, then I completely disagree with you.
A person’s intent is not irrelevant. And to assume that all police officers or all white people think and act the same way toward gays or people of color is to engage in the worst kind of stereotyping. It creates divisions that are very hard to bridge. While I would never deny that virulent racism has existed and still exists in the US, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the rise of knee jerk accusations of racism here has coincided with an increase in open hate speech.
For me, the accusations of racism against Mariah Bell, which appear to have been based on no more than the fact that during a run through her skate grazed Eunsoo, is a perfect example of all that is wrong with this kind of thinking.
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- Jun 21, 2003
I will try to explain why I am not eager to apply the term "racism." If the letter had said, "I hate all white people and you white devil Zhenya should get out of Japan and go back where you came from" -- well, that's pretty straightforward.
But what about "I hate all white people and you evil white people should get out of the Cricket Club and go back where you belong" -- there seems to be some confusion here.
Also, the letter writer does not call Medvedeva white, he/she calls ger "black." I hate all black people like Zhenya and they should all go back to that African country, Russia.
To me, the intent of the letter is not completely clear, except that the writer does not like Med.
But what about "I hate all white people and you evil white people should get out of the Cricket Club and go back where you belong" -- there seems to be some confusion here.
Also, the letter writer does not call Medvedeva white, he/she calls ger "black." I hate all black people like Zhenya and they should all go back to that African country, Russia.
To me, the intent of the letter is not completely clear, except that the writer does not like Med.
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- Jun 21, 2003
About "racism" in general, at least the way the term is used in the United States (whose entire history has been dominated by by race-related concerns), I look at it like this.
"Racism" is the belief that one's own race is genetically superior to others, especially with respect to intellectual capacity and moral uprightness. The corollary is that the superior race has a right, even a duty, to mistreat the inferior race in every possible way, as the just punishment for them being congenitally stupid or despised by God.
For other forms of discrimination ("No Irish need apply"), I think that there are other terms that are more appropriate.
"Racism" is the belief that one's own race is genetically superior to others, especially with respect to intellectual capacity and moral uprightness. The corollary is that the superior race has a right, even a duty, to mistreat the inferior race in every possible way, as the just punishment for them being congenitally stupid or despised by God.
For other forms of discrimination ("No Irish need apply"), I think that there are other terms that are more appropriate.
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