2019-20 Japanese ladies' figure skating | Page 18 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Japanese ladies' figure skating

Noxchild

Medalist
Joined
Feb 14, 2018
Country
Canada
Nana was very lovely today, with jumps that reminded me of Mako Yamashita in their buttery smooth landings :love: Considering some of the other scores in past JGPs I thought (was hoping) she was going to get 125+ at least, but oh well... she did wonderful nonetheless.
 

yume

🍉
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
I think that Wakababy needs a break. To skip GPs and train properly without illness during that time wouldn't be a bad idea imo.
 

RafaelAstro

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
I can't stop watching Nana programs, they are so beautiful, I'm in love, same with Rika <3, but seriously they underscored Nana in the free I was expecting 125 points or more, shame her sp was not clean but damn her jumps are BIG and textbook with great transitions. At least it seems that she is improving her consistency, I don't know if she would have medaled with fair score in the free but I don't think so, the gap between her and the russians was big after the short, anyway I have to see the protocols because is not posible a very nearly clean skate received only 6 points more than her free skate in last jgp competition with many mistakes.
 

RafaelAstro

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
Wakaba looks so tired and without the power we know she has, 3 skaters with injuries or ilness at the start of the season: Wakaba, Mai and Mako, that's so sad, at least Wakaba and Mako can make a comeback, but for Mai is like start from 0 and we won't see her compete in challenger or grand prix series :'(
 

yume

🍉
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
I can't stop watching Nana programs, they are so beautiful, I'm in love, same with Rika <3, but seriously they underscored Nana in the free I was expecting 125 points or more, shame her sp was not clean but damn her jumps are BIG and textbook with great transitions. At least it seems that she is improving her consistency, I don't know if she would have medaled with fair score in the free but I don't think so, the gap between her and the russians was big after the short, anyway I have to see the protocols because is not posible a very nearly clean skate received only 6 points more than her free skate in last jgp competition with many mistakes.
She always gets low scores.
I won't talk about the joke that is pcs.
I don't know what she should add to her jumps to get more GOEs. I would not say transitions. Because i saw some skaters with almost no transitions get bigger scores. Her spins and jumps are good but somehow she's not rewarded.
 

cohkaix

FS data keeper
Medalist
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
but for Mai is like start from 0 and we won't see her compete in challenger or grand prix series :'(

Wait...unless I missed some news in between the following news in between late Aug. and now, I don't recall any saying that Mai plan to skip her GP assignments:

in Japanese, Mai's coach talked about re-opening the training for Mai

The news was published on Aug. 29th. It says that according to Coach Nakano, Mai started to train after 1 month rest. She's gaining weight and practicing skating with brighter expression, though she was not doing any difficult jump (combinations?). Mai will skip the international competition assignment in Sept. but is trying to prepare for the regional competition at the beginning of Oct.
 

surimi

Onward and forward, Sota!
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2013
^ that's what I recall about Mai as well. The updated GP lists that came out a few days ago don't show her name as struck out, either. Where is your info from about Mai skipping GPs, @RafaelAstro?
 

readernick

Medalist
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
The judging and blatant biases are perpetual issues. PCS judging has always been the big bug. Med beat Rika in every component. While I do find Med a naturally stronger performer and better transitions, I do not think she is stronger in SS and choreo. Especially not SS. She has improved but she is still muscling into her skates and not using the knees as well as Rika who has better flow and turning ease. Med is more laboured. The FS was especially telling. Rika’s SP was unusually lackluster, I would have marked the IN down more. But the FS was much better and should have been much closer considering the stronger SS.

Agree with this , Med should have higher PCS in the.performance aspects of the programs. (Rika looked a bit robotic in the short program) but Rika definitely has better SS and transitions ( Med improved this year but Rika is still significantly better) but you know the judges just really don't have the time to accurately judge both PCS and TES sp they just go with their feeling and mark similar scores across all PCS categories. The same thing happened to Anna S at lombardia ( she got lower transition scores than. Liza) and Hanyu ( lower SS marks than Aymoz) their actual performances were lackluster and the judges just gave them lower PCS across all categories without considering which categories were actually superior and inferior( this is why I think there should be a separate panel for just judging PCS)

As the season progresses, and Rika's performance improves the SS and transition marks will go up.
 

RafaelAstro

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
Wait...unless I missed some news in between the following news in between late Aug. and now, I don't recall any saying that Mai plan to skip her GP assignments:

in Japanese, Mai's coach talked about re-opening the training for Mai

The news was published on Aug. 29th. It says that according to Coach Nakano, Mai started to train after 1 month rest. She's gaining weight and practicing skating with brighter expression, though she was not doing any difficult jump (combinations?). Mai will skip the international competition assignment in Sept. but is trying to prepare for the regional competition at the beginning of Oct.

Oops I misunderstood the information, sorry I thought she would only compete at regionals competitions until nationals, well I feel better with this, I hope she will be back in form for the gp series but most importantly I hope she recovers well from her illness though I know that its a cronic dissease . Knowing the fighting spirit she has I know she can make a great comeback! GO Mai!
 

aname

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 4, 2018
Agree with this , Med should have higher PCS in the.performance aspects of the programs. (Rika looked a bit robotic in the short program) but Rika definitely has better SS and transitions ( Med improved this year but Rika is still significantly better) but you know the judges just really don't have the time to accurately judge both PCS and TES sp they just go with their feeling and mark similar scores across all PCS categories. The same thing happened to Anna S at lombardia ( she got lower transition scores than. Liza) and Hanyu ( lower SS marks than Aymoz) their actual performances were lackluster and the judges just gave them lower PCS across all categories without considering which categories were actually superior and inferior( this is why I think there should be a separate panel for just judging PCS)
Hanyu actually won the SS, TR and CO categories in FS, while Aymoz was placed first in PE & IN.
https://skatingscores.com/1920/cscan/men/long/pcs/

But your point about corridor judging still stands. It is frustrating.

Back to topic: Do you think we will see Rika going for the 4S in GP? She did clearly outscore Anna S. this weekend (224.16 vs 218.20) and the performance side of her FS needs more work, so I kind of hope they will focus on that first.
Meanwhile, Kihira explained why she did not attempt the quad Salchow which many had hoped she would try in Oakville.

In just her second year in the senior ranks, the 17-year-old said she wanted to "stabilise" her other jumps before adding quads to her competition layouts.

But she felt her triple Axel was already more stable than last season.
https://www.olympicchannel.com/en/stories/news/detail/kihira-medvedeva-autumn-classic-free-skate/
 

RafaelAstro

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
Hanyu actually won the SS, TR and CO categories in FS, while Aymoz was placed first in PE & IN.
https://skatingscores.com/1920/cscan/men/long/pcs/

But your point about corridor judging still stands. It is frustrating.

Back to topic: Do you think we will see Rika going for the 4S in GP? She did clearly outscore Anna S. this weekend (224.16 vs 218.20) and the performance side of her FS needs more work, so I kind of hope they will focus on that first. https://www.olympicchannel.com/en/stories/news/detail/kihira-medvedeva-autumn-classic-free-skate/

I think after she feels confident again with the lutz (when her left leg feels better) she will incorporate the quad salchaw, I think at japan open she will bring back the lutz and after that she will incorporate the quad salchaw in the GP events, but that will depend on how her major rivals will do in the upcoming events, maybe she won´t feel it necesary soon and will focus in develop her programs but if the quad girls gain consistency and more pcs then she will incorporate the quad salchaw to fight against them for the fisrt place. I doubt she will not include that jump when she originally put it in the jump layout of the free skate and when we saw her do it in practice with music. Maybe she wants to do both programs clean with the triple axel before she jumps the quad in order to feel confident in make a recovery with the triple axels if something wrong happens with the quad
 

risingtrot

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
She always gets low scores.
I won't talk about the joke that is pcs.
I don't know what she should add to her jumps to get more GOEs. I would not say transitions. Because i saw some skaters with almost no transitions get bigger scores. Her spins and jumps are good but somehow she's not rewarded.

I honestly agree. It's kind of frustrating that Nana is always underscored. Her lutz is amazing and with so much coverage. It's also not just the PCS actually. The GOES of other skaters were scored so much higher even.

To be really honest, these overscoring of other skaters and underscoring of other skaters really have been starting at the Junior level. The biases in the judging starts at the Junior level and just continue to the Senior level. It's kind of sad. As an ice skating fan, I want everyone to do well but if other skaters are not judged correctly and there are biases, it's kind of frustrating. I'm sure it's frustrating for the skaters and their coaches as well.

That said on a positive note, Congrats to Rika for winning~
 

RafaelAstro

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
I honestly agree. It's kind of frustrating that Nana is always underscored. Her lutz is amazing and with so much coverage. It's also not just the PCS actually. The GOES of other skaters were scored so much higher even.

To be really honest, these overscoring of other skaters and underscoring of other skaters really have been starting at the Junior level. The biases in the judging starts at the Junior level and just continue to the Senior level. It's kind of sad. As an ice skating fan, I want everyone to do well but if other skaters are not judged correctly and there are biases, it's kind of frustrating. I'm sure it's frustrating for the skaters and their coaches as well.

That said on a positive note, Congrats to Rika for winning~

After analyzing well her free skate and the protocols all I can say is that Nana's free program was severely undercored so far, her 2lo wasn´t underrotated (it was close but not UR, actually looked equally rotated as the 2t), her fly sit spin should have been level 4, there is no reson for downgrated one level when she didn´t do anything different, and the thing that made the big difference was the GOE in her jumps, it was criminally low knowing the technique and transitions she has. Her PCS were also underscored, I gived her two more points because she feel more the program than in last competiton and because she didn´t loss points in TES unlike what the judges want to show to us. This is my score for the elements I noted they were undercored personally:

3lz-3t bv 10.10 judges GOE 1.52 my GOE 2.10: it actually looked better than the one from the short, better flow, better transitions and match with the music, I don´t know what judges were thinking
2a bv 3.30 judges GOE 0.90 my GOE 1.00: small difference but there is no reason for this jump not reach 1.00 points in GOE with difficult entry and exit with good flow, distance and match with the music as well
3s bv 4.30 judges GOE 0.92 my GOE 1.10: this jump was so soft and with great flow, so effortles.
FSSp3 bv 2.60: As I said before this should have been level 4, there is no reason to downgrate a level, FSSp4 bv 3.00 the GOE is the same here tho.
3lz-2t-2lo<x bv 9.42 judges GOE -1.01 FOR ME is 3lz-2t-2lo bv 9.79 MY GOE 0.80: As I said th 2lo wasn´t underrotated it was as rotated as her 2t that wasn´t called, both were landed more than 270 degrees of rotation, The exit was not that clean and for that close rotation I give her only 0.80 goe but still the technique, the distance, the height are incredible.
finally 3fx bv 5.83 judges GOE 1.14 my GOE 1.80: textbook flip, great height, flow, distance, speed in and out of the jump, no transitions tho but that is enought to receives great GOE

I don´t disagree with the other elements scored in the program but only with this her TES score should have been 69.82 and her PCS 59.03 (two points more than last competition due to better interpretation of the music, performance, and transitions.) resulting in a total score of 128.85, 6.10 points more than what she received. Now you don´t want to give her more PCS ok then her score still would have been 126 aprox. Of course this is just a personal analysis but I think many people will agree with this, Nana was underscored, in my opinion to prevent another skater from a dangerous country to fight for a medal if a russian junior lady fail to deliver, of course this would have not changed nothing due to Nana's sp but is not about the medals or places but about real scores and ISU's credibility, and this is just the fault of the judges and referees, the skaters have nothing to do with this. You don´t agree with my opinion its ok, I don´t try to ofend anyone I just show my opinion about this, everyone can express their opinion about what happened here. I'm not a conspiranoic person lol I don´t usually do this but this time I felt it necesary because it was so obvious that they play a dirty game to Nana :'(.
 

risingtrot

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
@RafaelAstro

While they say that the judges and referees are there as volunteers, it's quite obvious that the judges/referees have their own preferences.
They'd underscore the competition and overscore their preferences. It's always been like this but it has just become too obvious/blatant these past years.

Anyway, I hope Nana will get her recognition some day. Hopefully she'd make it to the Junior Worlds too.
 

Noxchild

Medalist
Joined
Feb 14, 2018
Country
Canada
Wow, when is Miyu switching too? ;) On one hand it must be nice for Marin and Taichi to have their little sister with them (presumably Sara is also moving to the US) but since she's so much younger than them, I wonder about her schooling and how she'll be able to adapt... well, good luck to everyone involved. I hope Marin can show better results this season and get to compete more :agree:
 

yume

🍉
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
I wonder what is happening to Hamada's rink. Maybe she told them to move to another coaches because she knows that she can't teach them what they want to learn. Rika already spends half of her time in Colorado springs.
Anyway, it's a drastic and good move for Satoko. Better than training from time to time with Ghislain Briand. She needs more time with someone who can improve her jumps. I hope it will work.
 
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