2019-20 Japanese ladies' figure skating | Page 56 | Golden Skate

2019-20 Japanese ladies' figure skating

lusterfan

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
It was super close and really could've gone either way between Anna and Mana for me. Watching their skates again though, I think I would've given it to Anna.

In the SP, Mana had loads of speed, but didn't seem to have the refinement on her jump landings as a result. Similar to Kaori's earlier days when she had so much speed and power, but had a harder time controlling it. Along with Anna's backloaded combo and higher Step Sequence level, Mana gave up too many points in BV and GOE. Her final spin was slow and labored, which probably left a bad impression to the judges and was reflected in the PCS too.

In the FS, I was surprised to see Anna get so close to Mana, despite not having her own 3A and falling twice. After a closer look though, again I noticed Mana had sloppy jump landings (which reflected in her score as UR's). Along with a fall of her own, she didn't have enough refinement to come out on top, despite having a higher BV here.

However, I think Mana will be a force to be reckoned with next season! She already has the charm, speed, and a 3A. I'm sure Mie Hamada has a longer-term plan for her, and she will follow a similar trajectory to that of Rika's.
 

gotoschool

Medalist
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Mana had harsh ur calls, for example on the triple axel which in slow motion is actually not more than a quarter short, yet it not only received a ur but -1 GOE which made the push to deflate obvious to me. The issue is that slight shakes of the skate are often given urs with negative GOE for some skaters regardless of rotation and ignored on more favored others with high GOE. Mana's triple loop and triple toe backend ur calls were also quite harsh and in slow motion replay looked to be on the border with only a slight shake of the skate on landing. Compare Ksenia's landings on the triple lutz / triple toe combo in the SP that were overlooked with positive GOE. In any case, even if one or two ur calls were conceded on Mana, the fact is that all three close calls went against her with the highest value jump receiving the greatest negative GOE which seems suspicious to me. Furthermore, it was commented on by many that though Anna skated well minus the jumping mistakes it was Anna not Mana who was slowing down and losing steam in skating and in her spins at the end of her program. Even after the harsh calls for Mana, Mana still ended up with 4 points more in base value but with deflated GOE received slightly less in overall tech score than Anna. Anna also actually ended up with higher PCS before the falls in the LP, despite Mana finishing with fine expression after the fall and very good speed with fewer falls and a more robust finish. Plus, Mana received about a point less in PCS than Anna in the SP too. So again, the deflation in tech and GOE is carried into PCS.

Besides, the "lead" for Anna that is supposed to be such a cushion in the SP is merely 2.5 points in tech which is less than the 4 points higher in base tech score Mana had in the freeskate after the very harsh 3 ur calls and deflated GOE. It is an ongoing pattern for certain federations like Japanese skaters to get harsher calls and lower PCS and GOE that often contradicts careful visual evidence or they are held to a higher standard just as it has been going on before this generation of skaters. So, Japanese women skaters are forced to make up a handicap in scoring, but I think Young You should have won by more too.

Whatever the comments supporting the official results, the comments beneath the videos and in the chat for the Youth Olympics have many comments expressing the view that Mana should have finished third, a number in very strong terms. And in a largely subjective sport, this pervasive view in the face of persistent scoring bias, is quite revealing.
 

skatenewbie

Medalist
Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Given Anna SP lead i think it's fair Mana place 4th. It could be even closer or even Mana could be 3rd yes, but its not obvious that Anna was very overscored/pushed a lot by any means... well that's just my opinion though. Hoping to see even more improvement from her in JW
 

lusterfan

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 23, 2018
It really could've gone either way, and an argument could be made for either of them. I think her PCS could've been higher relative to Anna, but Anna looked crisper in the spins and jumps so more GOE deserved. I do think Russian ladies get more benefit of the doubt, but it's hard to say if it's intentional or a subconscious effect because of how dominant they've been. They do come out in the juniors already with an extra level of refinement. Other ladies may have more speed or power or charisma, but visually to me they lack the smaller details that judges do notice, which the Russians tend not to overlook.

Regarding the UR though, I didn't find them to be overly strict:

- 3A's landing was shaky, so they definitely flagged it for review. In slow mo, it's debatable for me and might've been a strict call, but it definitely not assuredly clean. Without this call, she might have gotten just enough (within tenths) to place over Anna. Or, it could've been just under by tenths. +1.6 for BV but the landing was still sloppy and I would give it a small -GOE or +0 at max.

- 3Lo looked under even in real-time for me, and slow mo showed it as definitely under for me too. Not strict in my opinion.

- 3T on the 3S looked okay to me in real time, but the blade did have a little wiggle. That and it not being a planned combo probably triggered them to flag it for review; slow mo does shows it was under for me.
 

RafaelAstro

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
Mana was so underscored, many cuestionable harsh urs, she deserved third place for me, but this bizarre judging don't surprise me anymore, russians skaters have an advantage no matter what.
 

denise3lz

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 10, 2018
Country
Japan
Competition Schedule 2020 January to March

International

January 10-15 Youth Olympic Games, Lausanne, Switzerland (YO)
February 3-9 Four Continents, Seoul, South Korea (4C)
February 4-9 Bavarian Open, Oberstdorf, Germany (BOs, BOn)
February 20-23 International Challenge Cup, The Hague, Netherlands (CCs, CCj, CCn)
March 2-8 Junior World Championships, Tallinn, Estonia (JW)
March 13-15 Coupe du Printemps, Kockelscheuer, Luxembourg (CPs, CPj, CPn) ; entire team Japan withdrew, eventually event cancelled.
March 16-22 World Championships, Montreal, Quebec, Canada (WC) ; event cancelled

Domestic (National level)

January 4-7 Intercollegiate, Kushiro, Hokkaido (IC)
January 23-26 Inter-High School, Obihiro, Hokkaido (IH) Junior competiton
January 29-February 2 National Sports Festival, Misawa, Aomori (NFs, NFj)
February 2-5 Inter-Junior High School, Nagano, Nagano (IJ) Junior competiton

------------

National

Rika KIHIRA 4C 1, CCs 1, WC
Wakaba HIGUCHI IC 5, 4C 4, WC
Tomoe KAWABATA NFj 2, JW 14, CPs?
Satoko MIYAHARA BOs 1, WC
Yuhana YOKOI IC 1, NFs 2, CCs 2
Kaori SAKAMOTO IC 2, NFs 1, 4C 5, CPs
Rin NITAYA IC WD
Marin HONDA BOs 2
Yuka NAGAI IC 4, NFs 7
Shiika YOSHIOKA IH 1, NFj 3, CCj 3
Mako YAMASITA IH WD, NFj WD
Saki MIYAKE IH 3, NFj 5
Mana KAWABE YO 4, IJ 1, JW 11
Hina TAKENO IC 3, NFs 3
Chisato URAMATSU IH 5, CPj?
Akari MATSUBARA IC 6, NFs 4
Hinano ISOBE IC 10, NFs 9
Mone CHIBA IJ 5, CCj 1
Hanna YOSHIDA IJ 4, CPj
Ibuki SATO IC 11
Yura MATSUDA
Honoka HIROTANI IC 8, NFs 8
Sakura YAMADA IC 9, NFs 15
Kouna TSUUCHI IC 17, NFs 12
Chihiro INOUE IC WD
Rino KASAKAKE IH 6, NFj 4
Niina TAKENO IC 13, NFs 5
Miyabi OBA NFs 11
Rika OYA IC WD

National Junior

Mana KAWABE (see National)
Tomoe KAWABATA (see National)
Hanna YOSHIDA (see National)
Momoka HATASAKI IJ 14, CCn WD
Shiika YOSHIOKA (see National)
Mone CHIBA (see National)
Chisato URAMATSU (see National)
Moa IWANO IH 9, NFj 9
Rino MATSUIKE IJ 7
Azusa TANAKA IJ 2
Kinayu YOKOI IJ 3
Rika TEJIMA IJ 8
Rei YOSHIMOTO IJ 9
Ayumi SHIBAYAMA BOn 1
Riko TAKINO IH WD, NFj 15
Nana ARAKI IH 4, NFj 1
Kiri HIRAKANE IH WD, NFj 6
Marisa YODA IH 29
Maria EGAWA IH 2, NFj 7
Serina OKADA IH WD
Natsu SUZUKI IH 16, NFj 13
Noa HOZUMI IJ 10
Kana YANAGAWA IJ 11
Yukari YAMANE CPn
Sakurako TANABE IJ 22
Himari MIURA IH 10
Ryo NAKAGAWA IJ 50
Sara HONDA
Miyu YUNOKI IJ 37
Hinako KATAYAMA IJ 13, NFj 11
 
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cohkaix

FS data keeper
Medalist
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Current domestic competition underway: National Sports Festival of Japan (第75回国民体育大会冬季大会 スケート競技会)

Live score updates: for Jr. ladies SP - https://www.jsfresults.com/National/2019-2020/fs_j/nationalfestival/data0403.htm
(After Jr. ladies, the Jr men competition will follow)

Competition Day 3: Sr. Ladies' SP (and Sr. Men's Final)
Sr. Ladies' SP, live score updating here: https://www.jsfresults.com/National/2019-2020/fs_j/nationalfestival/data0203.htm

Yuhana just skated. SP score 59.36 (a fall on the 3Lz during the 2nd half of the program so no jump combination)
Kaori will skate 21.
 

cohkaix

FS data keeper
Medalist
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Updating: final result of SP

1. Kaori Sakamoto 77.50
2. Hina Takeno 67.42
3. Yuhana Yokoi 59.36
4. Honoka Hirotani 59.11
5. Araki Matsubara 56.90

protocol


Looked like Kaori is doing well...(and being getting ready for 4CC)

Kaori Sakamoto SP
3F3T 2A 3Lo

SP 77.50
 

cohkaix

FS data keeper
Medalist
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Kaori did challenge the quad jump, though still a fall in the program, still managed to hold the other parts of the program together.
Final score: 148.45
Total: 225.95

(From the protocol, the 4T was downgraded)
 

RafaelAstro

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 22, 2018
I just hope she do her best at 4cc before the season ends, this one is by far not her best :(, but I admit that 4T attempt impress me even with the fall, and it seems she is regaining her consistency
 

Joekaz

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
I just hope she do her best at 4cc before the season ends, this one is by far not her best :(, but I admit that 4T attempt impress me even with the fall, and it seems she is regaining her consistency
The key for both her and Wakaba is managing their weight, for both jump consistency and potential 3A and 4T attempts. They are both built very powerfully in the thighs and that can be a problem as you mature.
 

Lamente Ariane

Skating Skills -5, Fashion +3, Camp +4
Record Breaker
Joined
Apr 5, 2017
I just hope she do her best at 4cc before the season ends, this one is by far not her best :(, but I admit that 4T attempt impress me even with the fall, and it seems she is regaining her consistency

Agreed. If clean she can absolutely make the podium at 4CC, no 4T needed though it's cool she's going for the 4T in general.
 
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