2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

Greengemmonster said:

And then to be fair they would have had to dock Mariah for the iffy landings and on it goes. Because if we're going to pick on Alysa then the same principles should apply to everyone else too.

Short of actually rigging the system and cheating so that Alysa would lose (or pray that she fall) I don't think there was much more they could have done.

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Like I said I wouldn't have minded Alysa winning so much if she won with 7's in PCS but the 8's plus the USFS hyping her 4Lz which is << is really bothering me. I was pretty upset she won at first but I've made peace with it with caveats. Also I don't think Mariah had iffy landings except for that last Lutz which she got called under for. I think there was a bit of tension in some of her landings but I don't think she had "multiple" uncalled underrotations as claimed by others. She was pretty solid here, I was watching closely on the combos because of her issues in the past. Also there was a certain patience to the way she was jumping, like she was easing into each landing instead of letting them get the better of her that I found to be very pleasant to watch.

oatmella said:

I never noticed so many arguments for Mariah until this Nationals. It’s not like she’s like Carolina Kostner or something. She will need higher BV to be more competitive internationally.

Charlie said that quite a few of Mariah’s jumps in her FS looked like they could have gone 50-50. Some air positions and landings weren’t ideal.

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I agree, people are comparing her skate to Michelle Kwan, like how? Also her PCS were way too high, if that was international that would be the highest of the year and Mariah is far from being the best imo. She hasn’t gotten over 70 all year (and for my taste I feel like her PCS through the GP were fair just my opinion though)

Skatefan15 said:

I agree, people are comparing her skate to Michelle Kwan, like how? Also her PCS were way too high, if that was international that would be the highest of the year and Mariah is far from being the best imo. She hasn’t gotten over 70 all year (and for my taste I feel like her PCS through the GP were fair just my opinion though)

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That's your opinion, other's have theirs. Mariah is an absolutely beautiful skater who performs so well and just draws people into her programs. I feel like there just aren't very many skaters like her anymore. There are few skaters I feel like can really emote the way she does and she's had these qualities for a long time, she's just struggled to put everything together under pressure for years and this season has been different. She has been building momentum so I expect to see her PCS scores rising internationally. If she performs clean at worlds she's going to score very well.

Emoting can only contribute so much to the PCS score. Mariah’s skating skills aren’t among the best in the world.

Having an emotional reaction to a performance doesn’t equate to that program deserving the highest score.

oatmella said:

I never noticed so many arguments for Mariah until this Nationals. It’s not like she’s like Carolina Kostner or something. She will need higher BV to be more competitive internationally.

Charlie said that quite a few of Mariah’s jumps in her FS looked like they could have gone 50-50. Some air positions and landings weren’t ideal.

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Mariah has rarely delivered when it counted. She has always made some glaring mistakes. One could say this is the best and first great skate she ever had. One outstanding skate does not make you better than everyone else.

oatmella said:

Emoting can only contribute so much to the PCS score. Mariah’s skating skills aren’t among the best in the world.

Having an emotional reaction to a performance doesn’t equate to that program deserving the highest score.

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This and also, am I the only one who thinks that, while Mariah's emotion was top notch and made the performance super enjoyable, Alysa also emoted and interpreted the music quite well? Her music didn't dramatically build quite as much as Mariah's, but Alysa was definitely performing, both with her body and with her face. Watch the step sequence again; The big, calm smile she gives perfectly matches the soft, calming tone of the music, and I thought the choreography was nice and Alysa did it well (and has been improving all season). Her speed also seemed tremendously improved to me, but the close-up camera might affect that. I'm not saying that she has Mariah's level of interpretation, but imo she's a lot closer than people seem to think. And she's definitely not all tech at this point, at least in my opinion. I thought it was a beautiful, emotional performance that also had beautiful triple axels and a brave quad attempt. And her smile seemed genuine too, not a "my coach told me to smile" sort of thing.

I wanted so much for Bradie to get her gold back. But I am not going to belittle the Gold Medal winner because of it. Alysa won fair and square. She went out there and delivered one of the most difficult Technical Free Skates you will ever see at Nationals. And she did it with a smile on her face. She was a joy to watch. She did not hold back and gave it her all. She should be praised instead of being picked apart.

If Mariah perform like she did in US Nats in Worlds she could be getting 70+ pcs in FP even though not 75. She already got 68 or 69 in GP series. She won't be in the last group of SP though like Bradie

KatGrace1925 said:

Also there was a certain patience to the way[Mariah]e was jumping, like she was easing into each landing instead of letting them get the better of her that I found to be very pleasant to watch.

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I noticed that, too. Easy does it, one jump at a time, each in its ordered place. In the past it seemed like she was rushing into her jumps. This was her all-time best, to me.

Not to take anything away from Alyssa. Two triple Axels and a sort-of attempt at a quad Lutz. Cheerful, heartwarming on-ice personality. No way anyone was going to beat her.

skatenewbie said:

If Mariah perform like she did in US Nats in Worlds she could be getting 70+ pcs in FP even though not 75. She already got 68 or 69 in GP series. She won't be in the last group of SP though like Bradie

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Mariah did make the last FS group last year, which still helps! I wouldn't say it's super easy, but definitely still possible for Mariah to sneak into the final FS group this year too.

As for the last SP group, interestingly Mariah is only a tiny bit behind Sasha in World Standing. The current World Standing for Worlds competitors is:

1. Rika
2. Satoko
3. Bradie
4. Alyona
5. Anna
6. Sasha
--
7. Mariah
8. Eunsoo
9. Wakaba

Mariah is less than 100 points behind Sasha, so had she been assigned to 4CC, she very likely would've been able to get ahead of Alyona and make the final spot. Without 4CC, she's likely to completely miss the final group ... and we all know this matters in figure skating. Such a shame she won't be able to attend 4CC! Hopefully she'll be sent to another international competition to get the little bit of points needed to push out Sasha from the final group. USFS, come on!

Edit: I see that the Challenge Cup's USA entries are still TBD. Maybe Mariah can get sent there? Should be a guaranteed medal there with only Rika as the main competitor!

Figure 8's said:

I wanted so much for Bradie to get her gold back. But I am not going to belittle the Gold Medal winner because of it. Alysa won fair and square. She went out there and delivered one of the most difficult Technical Free Skates you will ever see at Nationals. And she did it with a smile on her face. She was a joy to watch. She did not hold back and gave it her all. She should be praised instead of being picked apart.

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Hopefully she will have her moment at 4CC! I REALLY want Bradie to podium!!!

Confession: I adore Rika too so I am just going to wish that both ladies have skates as clean as disinfectant and get all the medals between them!

>as clean as disinfectant

Love that simile!
Though maybe a bit close to home (metaphorically speaking) given the Coronavirus outbreak.

oatmella said:

Alysa made mistakes at JGPF. She lost by less than 3 points and could have won with fewer errors.

Mariah had some uncalled UR, which also happened in the Grand Prix.

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Funny but I didn’t see any UR. The Last lutz was maybe a little UR. The only problem in her landings was her triple Loop. But that’s Always the case. If I was her coach I will start teaching her quad Flip. Her jumps are high enough and I only hope she can rotated it.
Mariah is one of the fastest skaters in the world, with great edges and very soft knees. I hope she stays healthy ...

Agree that Alysa is being a bit underrated when it comes to the performance side of things. She's worked on her interpretation all season and the choreo changes in both programs have helped tremendously. IMO, her interpretation skills easily beat out her peers (top juniors) except maybe one or two. Of course, she still falls short compared to a seasoned lady like Mariah, but Alysa is doing more than fine in that department. I also thought her free skate StSq was divine. Alysa has a natural ease of movement and stretched out positions that make her lovely to watch. Of course, she's not completely there yet in terms of speed, but edge quality has always been decent and was very lovely in her FS StSq

If emotional, moving performances could win championships, Jason Brown would be 2014 US National Champion and Ashley Wagner would be 2016 World Champion. But figure skating is a sport and it just doesn't work that way.

Honestly from the reactions in this thread it's like this is the first time this has ever happened. I mean Tara won US Nationals in 1997 when she was 14, then went on to win Worlds that same year (and she will forever hold the record of world's youngest World Champion ever since the ISU changed the min age after that). And Mirai won 2008 Nationals at age 14, too young to go to Worlds. Actually of the four podium winners that year, only Ashley was old enough to go to Worlds. Rachel Flatt was 15 (just missed the cut-off), and Caroline Zhang was 14.

Juniors skating as seniors domestically has been going on forever. And not just US or Russia. Young You became Korean National Champion at age 11. Yuna Kim became National Champion at age 12. The only thing that has changed is the minimum age to skate as a senior.

Arguably Alysa should not have won last year and USFS seemed quite ready to anoint Bradie or Mariah... had they skated clean. This year I felt Alysa's win was fully deserved. Yes, Mariah skated lights out in an emotional performance that had me in tears (it really was beautiful, I was so proud of her!). But Alysa also won me over with a different emotion - pure joy. Just pure joy and the love of skating. I hope she never loses that.

In any case I don't think we should be worried about Alysa. She's very self-aware. In her interviews she emphasized taking care of her body, making sure she gets good nutrition, and watching how much she's practicing. She's actually said she can't wait to grow because it will help her movement and lines on the ice. She knows her weaknesses, or she wouldn't have spent time with Carolina Kostner. The goal is Beijing 2022 and I trust her team will pace her so she gets there safely. I certainly can't wait to see what will unfold!

TBH I loved that entire podium. All four (including Karen) did exceptionally well and I really couldn't be prouder of our ladies.

I think I said this earlier that very few people would come up with the argument of preventing a 14 yr old at senior nationals if she did not win, and she did not win Gold over your fav skater, Mariah Bell.

I just hope Alysa will ditch Lori and get Shae-lynn Bourne, Benoit Richaud or some Russian choreographer. She needs more intricate programs next season for sure.

Makemi said:

Honestly from the reactions in this thread it's like this is the first time this has ever happened. I mean Tara won US Nationals in 1997 when she was 14, then went on to win Worlds that same year (and she will forever hold the record of world's youngest World Champion ever since the ISU changed the min age after that). And Mirai won 2008 Nationals at age 14, too young to go to Worlds. Actually of the four podium winners that year, only Ashley was old enough to go to Worlds. Rachel Flatt was 15 (just missed the cut-off), and Caroline Zhang was 14.

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I disagree with the notion that Mariah is not a talented skater nor that she has bad skating skills. Her edges are beautiful and the way she moves on the ice is beautiful. She’s always had a nice quality to her skating and what she’s not had before was consistency but now she has had a whole season of consistent performances and if she keeps it up the international judges will keep raising those PCS scores. I could see her breaking 70 at worlds. I could see her in the last group if she keeps producing the quality skating she’s been putting out. I wasn’t a big fan of the Britney Spears short this year but she really does own it. Training with Adam Rippon has been amazing for her.

I think I am allowed to be bitter with the results and it’s not comparable to Nathan vs Jason because the technical gap Nathan has is huge and also Nathan is a skilled skater and gifted performer as well. He rightfully holds his own in all categories but he had to grow into it. Nathan did not win agains Adam in 2016 despite having the better base value, because at the time he was juniorish and not there with his skating yet. That’s more how I feel about Mariah and Alysa this season but it’s pointless to keep arguing it. And I am frankly offended with how Mariah is now being painted as a bad skater by some of you and saying all she has is emotion and not skill.

KatGrace1925 said:

And I am frankly offended with how Mariah is now being painted as a bad skater by some of you and saying all she has is emotion and not skill.

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If you say you're offended at that, then on the flip side others could say that it is offensive to say that Alysa is all tech and no emotion/performance. I don't see how one can watch that performance and not see emotion and interpretation. (and btw I'm not the one saying Mariah is a "bad skater" and I don't agree with that - although I don't see anyone using that harsh of language).

No one said that Mariah is a bad skater. But her quality of performance and skating is not enough to overcome her technical deficit to beat Alysa to win Nationals, or to be more competitive internationally than she is currently.

Happy Skates said:

If you say you're offended at that, then on the flip side others could say that it is offensive to say that Alysa is all tech and no emotion/performance. I don't see how one can watch that performance and not see emotion and interpretation. (and btw I'm not the one saying Mariah is a "bad skater" and I don't agree with that - although I don't see anyone using that harsh of language).

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^^^^ This!