2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating | Page 215 | Golden Skate

2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

chuckm

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Joined
Aug 31, 2003
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United-States
No. She is the daughter of a single father. Her biological mother is an egg donor who we don't know anything about.

It's impossible to say how growth will impact her skating in the next 2 years. I don't see the point of speculation. There are too many what ifs. She seems to be working hard and improving and I looking forward to seeing what the future holds for her.

Alysa and her siblngs were conceived in a surrogate (the same one for all of them), but the surrogate is not part of their family. We have no idea of her ethnicity or her body type.
 

brakes

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 31, 2020
:eek:topic:
I'm playing with wikipedia and have a question: why Katarina Witt and Debi Thomas didn't participate in int'l junior competitions?
 

mrrice

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Isn't she adopted?

Alysa? I believe so> That's why it's difficult to talk about genetics if we don't know who they are. Alysa has a very small frame and if she any problem it will be from growth rather than weight gain. We'll have to wait and see. In the meantime, I'm going to be cheering for her at JR Worlds
 

cohen-esque

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
:eek:topic:
I'm playing with wikipedia and have a question: why Katarina Witt and Debi Thomas didn't participate in int'l junior competitions?
Age limits weren’t established until 1996 so there wasn’t really a junior circuit before then. Junior Worlds wasn’t as prestigious a competition; there were several years that the US didn’t send any ladies at all (including in the early 80s when Debi Thomas was already competing as a senior at US Nats). Generally, countries were sending their strongest young skaters to the major Championships. Katarina Witt debuted at Europeans when she was 13 and Worlds when she was 14.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
:eek:topic:
I'm playing with wikipedia and have a question: why Katarina Witt and Debi Thomas didn't participate in int'l junior competitions?

I don't know about Debi, but Katarina was competing as a senior by age 12. She was 13 in her first Euros appearance in 1979.
 

brakes

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 31, 2020
Age limits weren’t established until 1996 so there wasn’t really a junior circuit before then. Junior Worlds wasn’t as prestigious a competition; there were several years that the US didn’t send any ladies at all (including in the early 80s when Debi Thomas was already competing as a senior at US Nats). Generally, countries were sending their strongest young skaters to the major Championships. Katarina Witt debuted at Europeans when she was 13 and Worlds when she was 14.
I don't know about Debi, but Katarina was competing as a senior by age 12. She was 13 in her first Euros appearance in 1979.
So you're saying, that Elaine Zayak, Rosalynn Sumners, Midori Ito, Kristi Yamaguchi, Yuka Sato, Surya Bonaly, Michelle Kwan, Irina Slutskaya were less talented in their junior years than Witt and Thomas?
All of them had been sent to junior worlds before establishing age limits in 1996. :think:
 

Sugar Coated

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 20, 2018
I think given skaters’ historical issues with food and weight, it’s dangerous to suggest that Alysa will be the exact same weight in 5 years (give or take 5 pounds). Yes, she’s an elite athlete, but she’s also a young lady and she will go through bodily changes like everyone else. Mirai at 14 looks different than Mirai at 16, 17, and 18. And that’s fine. Skaters go through delayed puberty and develop differently over time.

Not bashing you personally, but as someone who also grew up in an aesthetic sport I see “I don’t really see her gaining more than 5 pounds before the Olympics” as being incredibly an triggering and potentially dangerous mindset for someone going through a natural part of human development.
You are right I should have been more cautious with my words. I don’t want to add to the pressures these you girls are under.

Hopefully I can do better, but my thinking was that most girls are at their adult height by 15 and for someone of shorter stature it’s unlikely for someone to grow more than 1-2 inches in 2 years. The general rule of thumb is that healthy weight gain when growing is about 5 lbs per inch of growth. But this generally for anyone over 5 foot and may be slight less for someone of shorter stature.

Is that more appropriate? I don’t mean to be specific to her and of course there are exceptions to the rule but this was my generally understanding. Also, it’s now less than 2 years until the olympics. I was just trying to say that based on most norms, a 14.5 year old girl isn’t likely to grow much more than a few inches in 2 years and I think concerns are overblown.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Oksana Baiul was 16, 95 lbs and under 5' tall when she won her OGM. In two years she grew 5 inches and gained 20 lbs.
 

Fool

On the Ice
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Feb 11, 2018
Country
South-Korea
Alysa? I believe so> That's why it's difficult to talk about genetics if we don't know who they are. Alysa has a very small frame and if she any problem it will be from growth rather than weight gain. We'll have to wait and see. In the meantime, I'm going to be cheering for her at JR Worlds

She's not adopted, it's been cleared up right here in this thread (multiple times). I personally find that speculating about someone's body type, genetics and all this is creepy whether we "know" their parents or not.
 

jenaj

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Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
Age limits weren’t established until 1996 so there wasn’t really a junior circuit before then. Junior Worlds wasn’t as prestigious a competition; there were several years that the US didn’t send any ladies at all (including in the early 80s when Debi Thomas was already competing as a senior at US Nats). Generally, countries were sending their strongest young skaters to the major Championships. Katarina Witt debuted at Europeans when she was 13 and Worlds when she was 14.

I disagree with this, at least as to whether there was a junior circuit before 1996. Michelle Kwan won Junior Worlds. Tara Lipinski competed at Jr. Worlds, as well, though I believe she came in second. The difference between then and now is that skaters before the age limit stayed junior for a shorter time because they could advance to the senior level at a younger age. But winning Junior Worlds was still prestigious and competitive.
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
So you're saying, that Elaine Zayak, Rosalynn Sumners, Midori Ito, Kristi Yamaguchi, Yuka Sato, Surya Bonaly, Michelle Kwan, Irina Slutskaya were less talented in their junior years than Witt and Thomas?
All of them had been sent to junior worlds before establishing age limits in 1996. :think:

Junior Worlds in some form has existed since 1976:
The first World Junior Championships were held in March 1976 in Megève, France, and were originally named the "ISU Junior Figure Skating Championships". In 1977 the championships were held again under the same name at the same place. In 1978 these championships were officially renamed the "World Junior Figure Skating Championships", and held once again in Megève, France. Since then, the location has changed each year.
From its inception until 1980, the World Junior Championships were held in the spring. In 1981, the timing was changed to the November or December of the previous calendar year. In 2000, the timing was changed back to its previous form and the World Junior Championships were once again held in the spring.

In the early years, participation was spotty. Neither the USSR nor East Germany participated in 1976 or 77. USSR first sent a team in 1978; East Germany sent one man in 1979 but no other disciplines until 1980.

I'm not sure what the age rules were in the early years. I'm pretty sure the upper age limit was lower than it is now; I don't know whether there was any lower limit at all. If so, Witt might have been too young in the earliest years anyway. And by 1978-79 (age 13) she was already competing internationally as a senior.

Thomas was a couple years younger and was coming up in what was probably a larger/deeper field.

As far as I can determine online, in 1980 she was 2nd in novice at US Nationals. I can't find results for 1981 and 82, when she most likely would have been competing as a junior. In 1983 she was 13th of 15 in seniors, in 1984 she was 6th, and thereafter she was on the podium and the senior world team.

I don't know whether there were other junior international competitions in the 1970s and early 80s, or if so whether East Germany participated in any outside the Eastern bloc. By the late 1980s, there definitely was more of a junior circuit, but by that time Witt and Thomas were too old, top seniors and then retired.
 

el henry

Go have some cake. And come back with jollity.
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Mar 3, 2014
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United-States
Which us singles skaters from nationals would be good for pairs?

Experienced “pairs girls” have a difficult enough time finding suitable partners, so I’m not sure why we would want to ask this question? With even Alexa Knierim looking for a partner, I doubt any US ladies will contemplate a switch just for the sake of a switch out of singles.:)
 

Jammers

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Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
Female athletes often experience delayed puberty due to their low bodyfat levels.

Here the commentator mentions that Mirai won Nationals (age 14) and grew 5 inches over the next two years.
https://youtu.be/3rJX0_QqCTE

Not only that Mirai grew from 4'7 when she won US Juniors at 13 to 4'11 when she won Senior Nationals a year later. So in about three years Mirai grew 9 inches. I think it would do Alysa some good to grow a few more inches just to have more of a presence on the ice and look more like a Senior skater.
 

Fool

On the Ice
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Feb 11, 2018
Country
South-Korea
What does all this Shibs/VM/Nathan etc. have to do with US ladies skating 2019-2020?:slink:
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
The announcement of USFSA's policy for the team event prior to the Olympics & U.S. Nationals was that the top 2 ranked competitors on the team would have the choice of whether they wished to compete once or twice. Based on overall results prior to the Olympics, those athletes would have been Nathan & the Shibs.

I wasn't aware of this, but I think it's a very fair policy. I wonder if there were any hard feelings with the other dance teams over the Shibs electing to do both segments.
 

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
China has a lady who can do quads and 3axels? China hasn't been a factor in ladies for years and doesn't seem to have anyone for 2022.

Anecdotally: Just this week Instagram had video of a Team China lady training triple axel on harness.


Which us singles skaters from nationals would be good for pairs?

Experienced “pairs girls” have a difficult enough time finding suitable partners, so I’m not sure why we would want to ask this question? With even Alexa Knierim looking for a partner, I doubt any US ladies will contemplate a switch just for the sake of a switch out of singles.:)

Given the vast range of other questions that people "want to ask" on GS, sk8rgurl's question does not seem any less reasonable to me than many other questions.
(Whether Alexa happened to be on a new search for a partner or not.)

U.S. Nats ended several weeks ago for eighteen senior ladies and eighteen junior ladies.
For most of them, Nats was the last competition of the season. I would not assume that all are on 100% auto-pilot to continue in singles ... or even to continue any kind of competitive career. For skaters who make a reassessment at the end of every season, now would be the time for them to consider their options for the future. If one or more of them do not see themselves competing in ladies next season, why would "we" ;) jump to the conclusion that a switch to pairs would be unthinkable? We have examples of switches in recent years, including a 2019 Nats ladies competitor whose promising new pairs partnership was barely one point away from qualifying for 2020 Nats.
(What a newbie to pairs would be looking for in a partner is far different from what the veteran Alexa would be looking for in a partner. I do not see why the justifiably high bars for Alexa's partner search [such as major pairs experience and citizenship] would have something to do with a newbie's partner search?)

I do not have any names to mention in answer to sk8rgurl's question ... but if a switch to pairs is a way for a former lady to continue her enjoyment of skating, fine by me.

ETA:
Forgot to give sk8rgurl a :hap36: for your first post.​


The announcement of USFSA's policy for the team event prior to the Olympics & U.S. Nationals was that the top 2 ranked competitors on the team would have the choice of whether they wished to compete once or twice. Based on overall results prior to the Olympics, those athletes would have been Nathan & the Shibs. Nathan could have done both portions of the event if he had wished to do so. Seeing as Adam trained at the same rink & both trained with Rafael, it isn't surprising that Nathan was good with having Adam compete also. ...

Just want to be super-clear here:

AFAIK, USFS official policy would not have given Nathan the power to choose who the second man would be to compete in the team event.
At the time that Nathan needed to state a preference for team SP or team FS or both [ETA: or for no participation in the team event], he would not have had a guarantee that Adam would be the second man for the team event.
That said, Adam was a strong candidate, and I am not excluding the possibility of backstage negotiating on Adam's behalf (more likely by Raf than by Nathan, IMO).
Not criticizing Nathan (and not questioning that selflessness is one of his qualities), but unless he is on the record (did I miss/forget something?) that a significant motivation for skating only the team SP was to open up the team FS slot for Adam, I think it was more like a little side benefit.​
 

NanaPat

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Country
Canada
The announcement of USFSA's policy for the team event prior to the Olympics & U.S. Nationals was that the top 2 ranked competitors on the team would have the choice of whether they wished to compete once or twice. Based on overall results prior to the Olympics, those athletes would have been Nathan & the Shibs.

That seems a bit shortsighted. It's certainly good to take the "top" skaters preferences into account (including the top skaters in all four disciplines), but if you use a substitute in a discipline where the available substitutes are very weak (at the choice of the "top" skater in that discipline) , you significantly weaken your chances in the team event.
 
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