2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

brightphoton said:

But even in the olden days of skating, triple-triples, and even triples, were not "consistent" jumps. There was a time period in the mid 2000s to early 2010s, where they wouldn't give underrotations if they thought a skater didn't do a full triple -- they'd give a full downgrade.

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Yes, because the ISU hadn't come up with the idea yet of splitting the difference to moderately penalize moderate underrotations. They only had rules to cover clean or 90+ degrees short.

And the very first year of IJS, they didn't even have the < symbol but called the downgraded triples as doubles in the protocols, which wasn't very informative. Same for calling underrotated quads as triples, which led to Zayak issues, which is what prompted the invention of the < notation.

But it was another 4 or 5 years before they decided to distinguish between < and <<.

Also, in general, I don't think triples can ever be considered guaranteed, safe jumps, even for skaters in their prime

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Very true!

5th place is excellent! Very proud of Bradie!

Sadly, Bradie finished 5th because Zagitova had the worst skate of her life today, URing 6 jumps and falling on a 2a, with no inflated PCS to keep her afloat.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the 3 GPF medalists at Worlds, and no Zagitova, Medvedeva or Tuktamysheva.



On another note: US skaters had a terrific weekend, earning 14 medals between the GPF, JGPF and Golden Spin.

chuckm said:

Sadly, Bradie finished 5th because Zagitova had the worst skate of her life today,

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The thing is that Bradie could easily have fallen apart like Zagitova did, but she didn't. Bradie had even more of an uphill climb than Alina today, considering that she knew she was up against 4 girls who were going to be attempting quads and/or triple axels, plus Alina who still would have gotten sky-high PCS if she'd skated to her usual standard. She can do the math, but she didn't let the math discourage her or deter her from doing her best.

I'm more and more impressed with the way Bradie's developed over the past two years. She has nerves of steel, to skate like she did today, in that field of competitors. She gave a gorgeous skate, a gorgeous performance with emotion and elegance. Incidentally, if everyone could spin like Bradie, I wouldn't be nearly as bored as I am during most ladies' spins. She spins like she means it. Like she's paying attention to the reasons we value spins. Not just fulfilling the spin requirement to get the most points.

I also loved what Bradie said yesterday in the GS interview by Paula:


Women's figure skating, where performance and connecting with the audience matter as much, or almost as much as the technical, is still alive while we have her and Mariah, to name two.

chuckm said:

Sadly, Bradie finished 5th because Zagitova had the worst skate of her life today, URing 6 jumps and falling on a 2a, with no inflated PCS to keep her afloat.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the 3 GPF medalists at Worlds, and no Zagitova, Medvedeva or Tuktamysheva.



On another note: US skaters had a terrific weekend, earning 14 medals between the GPF, JGPF and Golden Spin.

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Bradie finished fifth (4th SP, 5th FS) because she was solid in both programs, obviously less than perfect but solid and she stayed on her feet.
Rika and Sasha had a fall each in the SP which put Bradie ahead and Alina had a very rough FS as you pointed out.

Orlov said:

I didn't say Alysa was cynical. I said we should be cynical (in the way I described above) when we talk about things like that. In this logic we must assume that inconsistent, temporarily loyal refereeing, will corrupt athletes. And that's why (among other things) we have to avoid inconsistent refereeing.

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I appreciate that you're using words like "in this logic." But it doesn't necessarily follow that the logic you're talking about is the only way to promote integrity and fairness. Inconsistent refereeing is a fact of life in many sports (some baseball fans get in fights with each other over calls, and want to fire the umpire), and in most sports there's clear guidance that integrity means playing fair and striving to do your best even if something doesn't feel fair. And when you're talking about even such "purely" technical judgments as underrotations in figure skating, there is a lot of room for disagreement. That's clear from arguments on GS, and also from the fact that technical experts in figure skating don't agree. What is UR to one may not be to another, and I don't believe it's because the officials are corrupt, or even temporarily loyal.

As for me, this is a natural and obvious thought - the path of elite athletes is so difficult that if there is a loophole, the temptation to use it will be too great. Maybe even unconsciously, when this underlying desire is lost in the daily fuss and labors.

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Again, I appreciate that you say "as for me." But I feel that one of the benefits of sport is that it encourages doing one's best, and letting the results be what they are. Even while wanting to win.

poor Alysa had to serve as the material of this didactic story

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Alysa's got a good head on her shoulders. She's not going to let this event deter her from pursuing excellence in the sport she loves. She's gonna keep on bringing joy to herself and to so many others.

Alyssa has a very good mindset and competition aspect. I hope she sustains it. Congrats to Bradie today. The reality is Russia has a very deep field of Junior ladies with quad attempts to spare who are young and need to sustain those jumps throughout puberty without injury. They also have a limited number of spots at worlds so lets see where it goes.


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chuckm said:

Sadly, Bradie finished 5th because Zagitova had the worst skate of her life today, URing 6 jumps and falling on a 2a, with no inflated PCS to keep her afloat.

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Well Bradie had as much of a chance to have a bad skate as well, but she kept it together; she knows that she's behind technically but she still went out and performed what she can do at a very high level getting decent GOE on everything except the 2 jumps with the under-rotations.

Bradie totally could have freaked out about the quads, 3Axels and choked but she didn't.

She went out with fighting spirit, made use of all her strengths (seriously those spins are so fast and a joy to watch) and performed the hell out of that routine!

I'm so proud and happy for her!

I think it was good that Bradie was at Warsaw Cup. She had a very rough skate there (worse than Alina today), but she got that under her belt and could focus on the GPF.

Very good and solid performance from Bradie today!

Bradie deserved higher PCS. I thought she'd get 143 or so for sure. But the important thing is that she skated beautifully, and she should be very proud. It's so bizarre that two performances that good were only good enough for fifth place, but that's just how insane things are right now. She has a good head on her shoulders to not let it impact her performance negatively.

lizardlass said:

Bradie deserved higher PCS

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Argue that.

I saw this morning the exhibition invitations for Ladies, and I feel sorry for Bradie - there were 6 ladies skaters barring injuries the 3 medalists are always invited but both Kihara and Zagitova (who finished below Bradie) were also invited. It seems incredibly rude to have 6 skaters at the competition and only invite 5 to the gala.

With the first half of the 2019-2020 season having come to a close, we can safely say that our US ladies, both senior and junior, have achieved great success. Proud of what the American ladies have accomplished despite such a drastic incline in terms of international depth.

First Half of 2019-2020 Recap:
- Bradie Tennell managed to nab silver at Skate America, a fourth place finish at Skate Canada, a silver at her Challenger event, and a trip to the Grand Prix Final.
- Mariah Bell managed to best expectations by claiming TWO podium finishes in both her Grand Prix events (France and Russia) and gold at her Challenger event.
- Alysa Liu stunned the world during her international debut, claiming two gold medals at her two Junior Grand Prix events and a silver at the Junior Grand Prix Final. Liu became the very first lady to land a Triple-axel and a Quad-lutz in the same program.
- Amber Glenn and Starr Andrews may not have posted stellar results, but both should be very proud of their progress. Glenn nabbed a surprising bronze at her Challenger event whilst Starr won silver at a junior event at Golden Spin.
- The return of Karen Chen and Gracie Gold captivated audiences and both seem to be making steady progress with the former currently enrolled in a university and the latter continuing to better herself physically and mentally in preparation for Nationals and beyond.
- Heavy favorites for the 2019-2020 season Ting Cui and Hanna Harrell both suffered from unfortunate injuries that kept them off the ice. Harrell won bronze in Philadelphia, placed 7th at her Junior Grand Prix event, and has withdrawn from every assignment since. Cui managed to place a respectable 4th at her Challenger event but was forced to step out of the limelight following an off-ice injury. Hopeful that both ladies will show up and show out for Nationals and beyond.
- New, exciting, and fresh blood debuted on the Junior Grand Prix such as Calista Choi, Isabelle Inthisone, Kate Wang, Sarah Jung, and many more.

In about a month, the aforementioned ladies and many more will be competing for podium finishes at Nationals. Of those lot, a selected few will begin gearing up for the second half of the season in which international championships to crown the very best of the best will be held. As always, best of luck to all of our ladies.

Amei said:

I saw this morning the exhibition invitations for Ladies, and I feel sorry for Bradie - there were 6 ladies skaters barring injuries the 3 medalists are always invited but both Kihara and Zagitova (who finished below Bradie) were also invited. It seems incredibly rude to have 6 skaters at the competition and only invite 5 to the gala.

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Seems in poor taste for them to not invite Bradie under those circumstances. She deserves to be there too, she was literally the only actual ladies skater (of adult age) at the ladies event and did a great job. I've still yet to see 22 year olds who can do quads in their program. At best you get a few rare ones like Mao and Tuk who can do 2 clean 3As. I wouldn't be surprised if Rika, like Mao, can continue jumping them into her 20s... maybe Alena too. I would be very surprised if the quadsters can keep their quads into adulthood.

Orlov said:

Argue that.

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It’s just their opinion and doesn’t really need arguing. I didn’t see Bradie’s programs yet, and her skating isn’t really my thing, but no need to make everything a heated discussion. (Sorry is I misunderstand your comment)

skatespin said:

Seems in poor taste for them to not invite Bradie under those circumstances. She deserves to be there too, she was literally the only actual ladies skater (of adult age) at the ladies event and did a great job. I've still yet to see 22 year olds who can do quads in their program. At best you get a few rare ones like Mao and Tuk who can do 2 clean 3As. I wouldn't be surprised if Rika, like Mao, can continue jumping them into her 20s... maybe Alena too. I would be very surprised if the quadsters can keep their quads into adulthood.

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How did you manage to make comments about Bradie not being at the gala into an age and quad debate?

I'm actually quite impressed!

Extremely rude and nasty of them to not invite Bradie. There were only 6 competitors in ladies ffs.

I've seen her exhibition program too. It's super fun and she performs it really well. The audience would have enjoyed it.

I also am of the opinion that Bradie deserves higher PCS. Her programs are well performed this season and well put together. She has sharp transitions and really has worked on the finer details in those programs.

She doesn’t get those points because of under rotation’s which I find frustrating. The only PCS category that should be tied to that is skating skills but judges seem to award all across a similar scale. How PCS is awarded has always been confusing to me and I don’t think the judges actually fully evaluate each section in their scoring.

Greengemmonster said:

Extremely rude and nasty of them to not invite Bradie. There were only 6 competitors in ladies ffs.

I've seen her exhibition program too. It's super fun and she performs it really well. The audience would have enjoyed it.

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I think it’s more that they had to invite the reigning world and Olympic gold medalist. It would have been nice if they’d given Zagitova’s slot to Bradie though once they knew she was just giving a speech.