2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating | Page 162 | Golden Skate

2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

katymay

Medalist
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Alysa will definitely be working on her rotations now. She’ll want to beat Bradie at nationals. However, I don’t believe that she’ll be working enough on her pcs. Alysa needs to spend hours upon hours with Lori and Carolina in person, and a video conference won’t do the trick. Alysa has admitted that she loves to jump most of all; I believe that’s where the focus will be, unfortunately. After all, she’s already receiving decent pcs, so why work on them?

I think normally rotation isn't an issue for her, not sure what happened at the final-nerves maybe? As far as PCS, the only issue is speed, and that could be cured over time in a Power Stroking class. Almost every rink has one, primarily for hockey players. And Power Stroking Classes are brutal, but they work to build speed and power. While she had issues with rotations at JGPF, her speed was much better. (I thought) That could have been what threw the jumps off.
 

arewhyaen

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Despite being the reigning US open champ, I dont believe US judges were ever "behind" Alysa so to speak. Similar to what they did with Nathan for his first year of senior nationals, they really pegged him on PCS which sent a message to him to get better spins, skating skills, interpretation, etc. IMO, Alysa was never supposed to win last year - despite the jump content, the judges were ready to give it all to Mariah or Bradie but Mariah and Bradie failed to deliver. I think we'll be in a similar position this year. The judges will want to send Alysa a message - to get her rotations and skating skills in check. So if a jump is a close call, you better believe the panel will peg her for it.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
The judges will want to send Alysa a message - to get her rotations and skating skills in check. So if a jump is a close call, you better believe the panel will peg her for it.

OTOH, they could also want to highlight the fact that we have a woman who can compete with the Russians, jump-for-jump. There's no need to be unreasonably hard on Alysa to promote other athletes since none of the other women will be a podium contender if they go to Worlds as the National champ anyway. I expect Nationals will be judged fairly, with the exception that Bradie or Mariah could get a bit of a bump in their score if they need it to finish in the top 2 Worlds-eligible women.
 

KatGrace1925

Medalist
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
OTOH, they could also want to highlight the fact that we have a woman who can compete with the Russians, jump-for-jump. There's no need to be unreasonably hard on Alysa to promote other athletes since none of the other women will be a podium contender if they go to Worlds as the National champ anyway. I expect Nationals will be judged fairly, with the exception that Bradie or Mariah could get a bit of a bump in their score if they need it to finish in the top 2 Worlds-eligible women.

No reason to be unreasonably hard on Alysa but there is good reason to be hard on her due to under rotations and unrefined skating skills, she needs to clean these things up and one way to motivate her to do so is to score these elements what the international judges have and will continue to score them. The judges propping her up just cause she can potentially compete with Eteri's girls would be a waste since she just lost to an Eteri girl who didn't have a quad attempt.

Meanwhile pushing Bradie and Mariah forward could be really good for the future of US figure skating since their high placement at worlds could get us back 3 spots even if neither of them can medal.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Bradie is a marvel. Bravo. She is looking great for Nats. I admit she doesn't have a lot of appeal though she is very accomplished and a hard worker. However, despite her overall good qualities she is not a great personality separate from skating. I am sure she is nice and her family and friends love her. But her skating personality is rather "blah" her programs aren't terrible and they are polished - they just don't have that zip, that spark and to be honest not everyone has it. Still she is the best in the US right now for senior ladies who can compete.
 

MaHa75

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 5, 2018
She confirmed on her IG Live that she isn’t going to YOG. It seems like the team’s priority is winning Nationals, which I understand. However, I think YOG is a really valuable experience, because there are no guarantees about getting an “Olympic” experience again.

Do you know who will go then?
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
No reason to be unreasonably hard on Alysa but there is good reason to be hard on her due to under rotations and unrefined skating skills, she needs to clean these things up and one way to motivate her to do so is to score these elements what the international judges have and will continue to score them. The judges propping her up just cause she can potentially compete with Eteri's girls would be a waste since she just lost to an Eteri girl who didn't have a quad attempt.

Meanwhile pushing Bradie and Mariah forward could be really good for the future of US figure skating since their high placement at worlds could get us back 3 spots even if neither of them can medal.

I think “pushing skaters forward” is bad for USFS and skating in general. I want fair judging and adherence to the criteria for World team selection.
 

Ice Dance

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
I think “pushing skaters forward” is bad for USFS and skating in general. I want fair judging and adherence to the criteria for World team selection.

Yes, if you get the job done in competition, you should reap the benefit. If you don't, you shouldn't. I think when athlete are underscored relative to their competition, then you see disillusionment and lose great talent & ability too early on in athletes' careers. When you overscore athletes, then you see disillusionment later when their scores and results internationally do not live up to expectations. And when you give athletes extra unearned berths, then you see those athletes lack confidence in their abilities and not develop into the competitors people were hoping they would. Or you see overconfidence and athletes who get passed at the finish line when other athletes upgrade.

In the long run, I think honesty is the best policy. I've never found pushing athletes to work. Nor have I found ignoring young athletes with extraordinary gifts to work. It doesn't work to ignore the weaknesses of athletes who really are not competitive at the international level. Nor to rest on athletes' former accomplishments. There is value in experience. And there is also value in having an internationally competitive program. Bradie, Mariah, and Alysa are all having terrific seasons, IMO. Really each of them has stepped up in their own way this season. Also, I am hoping Ting will be back for Nationals (I thought her performance level had really stepped up at the U.S. Classic relative to last year). And while I find Hanna to be volatile at best, I do hope she is able to come back and have a positive new year.
 

apgold

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Country
United-States
Bradie is a marvel. Bravo. She is looking great for Nats. I admit she doesn't have a lot of appeal though she is very accomplished and a hard worker. However, despite her overall good qualities she is not a great personality separate from skating. I am sure she is nice and her family and friends love her. But her skating personality is rather "blah" her programs aren't terrible and they are polished - they just don't have that zip, that spark and to be honest not everyone has it. Still she is the best in the US right now for senior ladies who can compete.

Bradie will never have the on ice charisma of an Ashley Wagner (but who does, really?) but she has really impressed me this season and has stepped up her game in terms of presentation. I was pleased that she even did her hair a bit differently for the SP at the final, so she seems open to experimenting with her look.

Nationals will really be a three way race with her, Alysa and Mariah - even more than last year.

Alysa could run away with the title again due to her content but if she has a lot of URs, that could hurt her. Bradie's URs also hurt her but she has less of them and not as difficult content. Mariah's jumps have improved with Raf's technique, so if she is clean and the others have URs, Mariah can win. Either way, Alysa will go to Jr Worlds (assuming she's age eligible now?) and Mariah and Bradie to Worlds.
 

KatGrace1925

Medalist
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
I think “pushing skaters forward” is bad for USFS and skating in general. I want fair judging and adherence to the criteria for World team selection.

Bradie and Mariah already deserve the two spots on the world team, it's not like I'm advocating for skaters who haven't earned it. I think Bradie and Mariah if clean in both programs should outscore Alysa if Alysa skates like she did at the JGPF and international judges agree with me. The US making Alysa national champion if Bradie and Mariah skate clean is not something I would be okay with as I don't think Alysa has the polish to beat them.
 

KatGrace1925

Medalist
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
Bradie will never have the on ice charisma of an Ashley Wagner (but who does, really?) but she has really impressed me this season and has stepped up her game in terms of presentation. I was pleased that she even did her hair a bit differently for the SP at the final, so she seems open to experimenting with her look.

Nationals will really be a three way race with her, Alysa and Mariah - even more than last year.

Alysa could run away with the title again due to her content but if she has a lot of URs, that could hurt her. Bradie's URs also hurt her but she has less of them and not as difficult content. Mariah's jumps have improved with Raf's technique, so if she is clean and the others have URs, Mariah can win. Either way, Alysa will go to Jr Worlds (assuming she's age eligible now?) and Mariah and Bradie to Worlds.

I hope the US actually calls skaters UR's as in the past at nationals underrotations have been ignored for the US's top skaters which does no one any good.
 

Moxiejan

Medalist
Joined
Jan 11, 2014
Country
United-States
With Alysa likely set for Junior Worlds & Bradie/Mariah for Worlds, other important battles will be for the 3rd spot at Four Continents, which can help that skater in ranking points for 2020 GP. It’s also important to make Top 5 to get an automatic bye to 2021 Nationals & better funding.
 

theharleyquinn

Medalist
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Hopefully Ting is healed and ready to go. I still think she's the most talented ladies skater the U.S. has and it would be a shame for her to miss out on 4CC.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
I hope the US actually calls skaters UR's as in the past at nationals underrotations have been ignored for the US's top skaters which does no one any good.

To be fair, international panels are not that consistent about calling URs either (although they've been tougher this season).
 

concorde

Medalist
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
I think normally rotation isn't an issue for her, not sure what happened at the final-nerves maybe? As far as PCS, the only issue is speed, and that could be cured over time in a Power Stroking class. Almost every rink has one, primarily for hockey players. And Power Stroking Classes are brutal, but they work to build speed and power. While she had issues with rotations at JGPF, her speed was much better. (I thought) That could have been what threw the jumps off.
US skaters lacking speed has been an issue for years. One of the reasons USFS took out several PC skills from the lower levels was they wanted young skaters to focus on speed. As a high ranking USFS official told me years ago, increasing speed is one of the most difficult skills for a developed skater to improve on.

Gaining speed is not as easy as taking a couple of power stroking classes. Gaining speed throws off the timing of all jumps. Also adding speed also makes things much more difficult (think steps sequence in slow motion vs double time). Plain and simple, speed makes things much more difficult. Many speedy skaters are less consistent (Ting) but when things "hit" for them, they are spectacular.

If gaining speed were so easy, don't you think most competitive skaters would be speedy.
 

natsulian

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 14, 2018
US skaters lacking speed has been an issue for years. One of the reasons USFS took out several PC skills from the lower levels was they wanted young skaters to focus on speed. As a high ranking USFS official told me years ago, increasing speed is one of the most difficult skills for a developed skater to improve on.

Gaining speed is not as easy as taking a couple of power stroking classes. Gaining speed throws off the timing of all jumps. Also adding speed also makes things much more difficult (think steps sequence in slow motion vs double time). Plain and simple, speed makes things much more difficult. Many speedy skaters are less consistent (Ting) but when things "hit" for them, they are spectacular.

If gaining speed were so easy, don't you think most competitive skaters would be speedy.

I never realized how speedy Ting was until someone described her as a gazelle on the ice. She’s so refined and I just hope she heals completely come Nationals. What a talent.
 

waltzjump2

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 8, 2019
US skaters lacking speed has been an issue for years. One of the reasons USFS took out several PC skills from the lower levels was they wanted young skaters to focus on speed. As a high ranking USFS official told me years ago, increasing speed is one of the most difficult skills for a developed skater to improve on.

Gaining speed is not as easy as taking a couple of power stroking classes. Gaining speed throws off the timing of all jumps. Also adding speed also makes things much more difficult (think steps sequence in slow motion vs double time). Plain and simple, speed makes things much more difficult. Many speedy skaters are less consistent (Ting) but when things "hit" for them, they are spectacular.

If gaining speed were so easy, don't you think most competitive skaters would be speedy.

About speed and inconsistency— I’ve noticed Karen Chen goes into her jumps (especially her lutz) with a lot of speed, and she’s always had issues with consistency in her jumps.
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
Bradie and Mariah already deserve the two spots on the world team, it's not like I'm advocating for skaters who haven't earned it. I think Bradie and Mariah if clean in both programs should outscore Alysa if Alysa skates like she did at the JGPF and international judges agree with me. The US making Alysa national champion if Bradie and Mariah skate clean is not something I would be okay with as I don't think Alysa has the polish to beat them.

If they outscore Alysa, fine. If Alysa outscores them, even if they are clean, she should win or place higher than them. No one should "make" Alysa (or Bradie or Mariah) national champion.
 

KatGrace1925

Medalist
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
If they outscore Alysa, fine. If Alysa outscores them, even if they are clean, she should win or place higher than them. No one should "make" Alysa (or Bradie or Mariah) national champion.

What I am concerned about is the USFS boosting Alysa's PCS for a cleanish performance and ignoring her underrotations simply to elevate her as their number 1. I absolutely think any of her international performances this year should not rank ahead of a clean Bradie or Mariah but if she stays on her feet I feel like the USFS will prop her up and give her scores she wouldn't get close to internationally.
 
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