2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

Bluediamonds09 · Feb 20, 2020

Do we have any info on how Alysa, Starr and Lindsay are preparing for junior worlds? I think in exactly 2 weeks the ladies short program will begin.

chuckm · Feb 20, 2020

b-man said:
This is a little incomplete and misleading. First, no doubt Wagner is the most successful US skater post Kwan/ Cohen. Further, Wagner, with Gold, dominated US skating from 2012 through 2016. That is five years of an 11 year career, a career which exactly overlaps Nagasu's career.

But the first 4 years, Wagner was far from dominant, generally finishing behind not only Nagasu in Nationals, Olympics, worlds, 4CC, etc, but behind Flatt and Czisny as well. In 2018 she had regressed, being behind Tennell, Nagasu, and Chen. So 5 years Wagner was dominant, and 5 years mostly behind Nagasu and others.

Since the discussion was about sponsorship, and sponsorship generally revolves around Olympics, we must look there. Nagasu edged Wagner at 2010 Nationals, went to Vancouver and finished a strong 4th behind Yuna, Mao, and a Canadian skater in Canada. Nagasu and Flatt got negligible sponsorships. In Boston Nationals, Nagasu finished ahead of Wagner again, but was replaced by a committee vote. Many believed Wagner should have replaced 1st yr senior Edmunds. Wagner and Gold each got sponsorships estimated at $500k+. At the 2018 San Jose Nationals, a resurgent Nagasu finished 2nd, Wagner 4th. Although the team was announced around Jan 7th, a full month before the team competition in Korea, all of Wagners sponsors, Bridgestone, Nike, Dick's, P&G, Samsung and Toyota all apparently stuck with a skater who wasn't even in the Olympics, to the tune of 6 figures plus. Nagasu, Tennell and Chen got negligible sponsorships. Since Nathan didn't get his anticipated medal, and one of our dance teams faltered, Nagasu's 8 triple program was certainly a highlite for the US, and it was replayed many times by NBC. It wasn't featured by sponsors, as they put all their eggs in the basket of a skater they knew would not be on the ice. So Wagner, who only qualified once by a committee decision, hit the jackpot twice. Nagasu got nothing in three Olympics, Flatt, Tennell and K. Chen also got negligible sponsors. Sponsors can, of course, spend their money as they see fit..

Nagasu's 8-triple FS was at the TEAM event, not the individual event, where she singled the 3a, completed just 6 triples and placed 12th in the FS.

ice coverage · Feb 20, 2020

So what? (That it was the team event when Mirai captured the world's imagination.)

Mirai's FS from the team event was an iconic moment of the entire 2018 OWG.

And not just for Team USA, imo.
For example, the Olympics itself (not just NBC) repeatedly has used emblematic imagery of Mirai.

(BTW, Mirai did get a couple of sponsorships after 2018 Games -- such as KT Tape.)

ETA:

Good luck to Sierra Venetta, Tamnhi Huynh, and Hannah Herrera at Challenge Cup this week. :yay:

Also to Team USA's ladies in Advanced Novice.

brightphoton · Feb 20, 2020

Mirai's team skate was the highlight, but it was skim pickins for Team USA

The only other close things were:
The Shibutabis's bronze medal dance
Maybe Nathan Chen's wild free skate with 999999 quads?
Maybe Adam Rippon's cautious free skate with 0 quads?

Our ladies actually finished in solidarity. What was it, 9th, 10th, 11th? And the subsequent World's competition ...

Funny enough, the first season that we didn't have Ashley Wagner on the world team, we lost our 3 spots and went to 2. Maybe sponsors do have some secret knowledge

frida80 · Feb 20, 2020

chuckm said:
Nagasu's 8-triple FS was at the TEAM event, not the individual event, where she singled the 3a, completed just 6 triples and placed 12th in the FS.

It was one of most googled moments in 2018. She was one of the few Team USA members highlighted during the closing ceremonies. Don’t count it out because it was the team event. It was still the Olympics. Still viewed by 10 times more people that viewed Boston World 2016. She made history that night and deserves to have that moment recognized.

macy · Feb 20, 2020

frida80 said:
It was one of most googled moments in 2018. She was one of the few Team USA members highlighted during the closing ceremonies. Don’t count it out because it was the team event. It was still the Olympics. Still viewed by 10 times more people that viewed Boston World 2016. She made history that night and deserves to have that moment recognized.

i wish people had this same opinion when it comes to winning a team medal

Bluediamonds09 · Feb 20, 2020

I find it interesting that Alysa has not been doing “rippon” jumps. Maybe she was busy with getting more revolutions? Maybe it was too difficult for her technique? Maybe because in 2018 it was determined that the rippon feature doesn’t automatically add GOE (but, I mean, it still totally does, imo) so her team decided it wasn’t worth it to learn?

Ice Dance · Feb 21, 2020

Bluediamonds09 said:
I find it interesting that Alysa has not been doing “rippon” jumps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUOpUC0_U4w

Skater Boy · Feb 21, 2020

b-man said:
This is a little incomplete and misleading. First, no doubt Wagner is the most successful US skater post Kwan/ Cohen. Further, Wagner, with Gold, dominated US skating from 2012 through 2016. That is five years of an 11 year career, a career which exactly overlaps Nagasu's career.

But the first 4 years, Wagner was far from dominant, generally finishing behind not only Nagasu in Nationals, Olympics, worlds, 4CC, etc, but behind Flatt and Czisny as well. In 2018 she had regressed, being behind Tennell, Nagasu, and Chen. So 5 years Wagner was dominant, and 5 years mostly behind Nagasu and others.

Since the discussion was about sponsorship, and sponsorship generally revolves around Olympics, we must look there. Nagasu edged Wagner at 2010 Nationals, went to Vancouver and finished a strong 4th behind Yuna, Mao, and a Canadian skater in Canada. Nagasu and Flatt got negligible sponsorships. In Boston Nationals, Nagasu finished ahead of Wagner again, but was replaced by a committee vote. Many believed Wagner should have replaced 1st yr senior Edmunds. Wagner and Gold each got sponsorships estimated at $500k+. At the 2018 San Jose Nationals, a resurgent Nagasu finished 2nd, Wagner 4th. Although the team was announced around Jan 7th, a full month before the team competition in Korea, all of Wagners sponsors, Bridgestone, Nike, Dick's, P&G, Samsung and Toyota all apparently stuck with a skater who wasn't even in the Olympics, to the tune of 6 figures plus. Nagasu, Tennell and Chen got negligible sponsorships. Since Nathan didn't get his anticipated medal, and one of our dance teams faltered, Nagasu's 8 triple program was certainly a highlite for the US, and it was replayed many times by NBC. It wasn't featured by sponsors, as they put all their eggs in the basket of a skater they knew would not be on the ice. So Wagner, who only qualified once by a committee decision, hit the jackpot twice. Nagasu got nothing in three Olympics, Flatt, Tennell and K. Chen also got negligible sponsors. Sponsors can, of course, spend their money as they see fit..

I don't think Joannie Rochette's bronze medal had anything to do with it be in Canada. The quality of her skating was significantly better. Some may argue she was underscored comparatively to Yuna and Mao. People say "she took advantage of the fact her mom died during the competition" - that is sick. But remember JOannie was a real quality skater.

brightphoton · Feb 21, 2020

Ice Dance said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUOpUC0_U4w

Those weren't quite Rippon jumps, only one hand above the head, but she's getting there

I now remember that Nancy Kerrigan used to do jumps with the hands on the hips. I need to rewatch some old videos to confirm ...

Greengemmonster · Feb 21, 2020

Ice Dance said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUOpUC0_U4w

Aww how cute was she!!!

It really struck me watching that Baby Alysa video how much I like her spins. That myth that she's just a jumping bean should be abolished!!!

b-man · Feb 22, 2020

Skater Boy said:
I don't think Joannie Rochette's bronze medal had anything to do with it be in Canada. The quality of her skating was significantly better. Some may argue she was underscored comparatively to Yuna and Mao. People say "she took advantage of the fact her mom died during the competition" - that is sick. But remember JOannie was a real quality skater.

I am of course biased, but I thought Mirai was underscored in PCS in Vancouver. Her PCS in Torino worlds only a month later was much higher than in Vancouver. The talk before the ladies comp in Vancouver was it didn't matter how Mirai skated, the bronze belonged to Joannie.

I have been to two Skate Canadas plus London Worlds. In contests where I had no preference who won, my impression was in a close contest, the Canadian skater will get the nod. But that bias happens at Skate America in favor of Americans as well.

theharleyquinn · Feb 22, 2020

Sierra Vanetta is in 3rd after the short at Challenge Cup. Glad to see her doing well at her international debut.

Jammers · Feb 22, 2020

Ting missing all of this season really hurt her chances of making the Olympic team. I think she has greater potential then either Bradie or Mariah and is much younger but since simply making the podium at Nationals doesn't guarantee a trip to Worlds or the Olympics anymore she needed to start making a case for herself next season.

MarinHondas · Feb 22, 2020

theharleyquinn said:
Sierra Vanetta is in 3rd after the short at Challenge Cup. Glad to see her doing well at her international debut.

Fingers crossed she can stay on the podium! Go Sierra :yahoo:

Skater Boy · Feb 22, 2020

b-man said:
I am of course biased, but I thought Mirai was underscored in PCS in Vancouver. Her PCS in Torino worlds only a month later was much higher than in Vancouver. The talk before the ladies comp in Vancouver was it didn't matter how Mirai skated, the bronze belonged to Joannie.

I have been to two Skate Canadas plus London Worlds. In contests where I had no preference who won, my impression was in a close contest, the Canadian skater will get the nod. But that bias happens at Skate America in favor of Americans as well.

The only talk was that about Joannie getting bronze is that if she skated the way she was capable of she would get bronze in reference to the high quality of her skating. Joannie was aked more about being undermarked for her skating.. It has been some Mirai fans trying to suggest because teh oympics ere in Canada or because Joannie's mom died people felt sorry for her. Sadly the real truth is did she deserve to win gold or silver. For some odd reason the Canadian threat in the last 30 or so years have managed to blend and be underrated skating - Manley, Chouinard, Rochette and Osmond were all extremely powerful, high amplitude and quality jumpers and spinners when on. They had power, speed, amplitude and grace and musicality - not ballerina like usually but none the less uscality and style. all the olympic medallist-Manley rochette andOsmond if anything seemed underappreciated and could or should have been a spothigher. Miraiin 2010was wonderful but Joannie had done more than enough quality and style wise to handily beat Mirai. Let's give her fair and due credit.

rlopen · Feb 22, 2020

Skater Boy said:
The only talk was that about Joannie getting bronze is that if she skated the way she was capable of she would get bronze in reference to the high quality of her skating. Joannie was aked more about being undermarked for her skating.. It has been some Mirai fans trying to suggest because teh oympics ere in Canada or because Joannie's mom died people felt sorry for her. Sadly the real truth is did she deserve to win gold or silver. For some odd reason the Canadian threat in the last 30 or so years have managed to blend and be underrated skating - Manley, Chouinard, Rochette and Osmond were all extremely powerful, high amplitude and quality jumpers and spinners when on. They had power, speed, amplitude and grace and musicality - not ballerina like usually but none the less uscality and style. all the olympic medallist-Manley rochette andOsmond if anything seemed underappreciated and could or should have been a spothigher. Miraiin 2010was wonderful but Joannie had done more than enough quality and style wise to handily beat Mirai. Let's give her fair and due credit.

Joannie 100% was the rightful bronze medalist, but there is no question that she should not have been higher than that. Asada had 3A’s and 3-3’s (even with a few pops, Joannie didn’t do 3-3’s or a 3A) and Kim had amazing quality jumps and musicality and that gorgeous Lutz-Toe. Vancouver was one of the times there was absolutely no controversy over the podium because it was so clear who the deserved Gold, Silver, and Bronze medalists were and what order they deserved to be in.

Seren · Feb 22, 2020

Jammers said:
Ting missing all of this season really hurt her chances of making the Olympic team. I think she has greater potential then either Bradie or Mariah and is much younger but since simply making the podium at Nationals doesn't guarantee a trip to Worlds or the Olympics anymore she needed to start making a case for herself next season.

I don’t think missing this season will hurt her- but if she misses it has a bad season next year then that would hurt her.

Next season is the do or die for her. If she has a stronger season next year than other US skaters then I don’t think missing this season will matter.

NAOTMAA · Feb 22, 2020

Seren said:
I don’t think missing this season will hurt her- but if she misses it has a bad season next year then that would hurt her.

Next season is the do or die for her. If she has a stronger season next year than other US skaters then I don’t think missing this season will matter.

But I do think she missed out on some extremely important reputation building. She started doing it at the end of last season and could have consolidated it this season but couldn't due to sitting out completely. Now instead of being considered almost equal to Bradie and Mariah and nipping at their heals (and with her talent she easily could have made it happen) she's stuck being the "a potential future threat but not quite there yet due to inconsistency and inexperience" as she was the beginning of last.

Just look at how the USFSA applies "body of work" in the selection of this year's worlds. Past season results clearly weigh very heavily in their team making decisions and with a whole season of no results at all Ting will potentially be at a great disadvantage if 2020 nationals ends up a nail biter. The fact that next season is as you said "do or die" just shows how far behind she is because of missing this season. Bradie, Mariah and Alyssa are building fantastic reputations with the USFSA and she's now got to play catch up. I'd argue she's even behind Karen Chen as well. It puts more pressure on her because every competition will mean a lot more and with her history of inconsistency that makes it even more harder.

drivingmissdaisy · Feb 22, 2020

NAOTMAA said:
Now instead of being considered almost equal to Bradie and Mariah and nipping at their heals (and with her talent she easily could have made it happen) she's stuck being the "a potential future threat but not quite there yet due to inconsistency and inexperience" as she was the beginning of last.

You could have said almost the same thing about Bradie in September 2017. Things can turn around in a hurry in figure skating.

2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

Bluediamonds09

chuckm

ice coverage

avatar credit: @miyan5605

brightphoton

frida80

macy

Bluediamonds09

Ice Dance

Skater Boy

brightphoton

Greengemmonster

b-man

theharleyquinn

Jammers

MarinHondas

Skater Boy

rlopen

Seren

Wakabond Forever

NAOTMAA

drivingmissdaisy

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